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March 13th, 2009 #1
lineart and weening off of it.... esp in concept art
Ive noticed that lineart in concept art is near non existent... as an artist, is the natural progression of an artist is to ween off of the crutch that is lineart?
are there even any concept artist that do lineart plus color of course.. accept for maybe joe mad in america?
I think in korea or asia in general its more acceptable.. like hyung tae kim.. like this one:
is it possible to make it as a concept artist with lineart unless ur a comic artist super star?
in america at least the concept art level is very high... at least the ones ive seen.. and i saw some vids where they just block in all the shapes with siliouettes and start painting very fast... without the need for any lineart. is this how good a concept artist have to be to get a job as a concept artist??
would a company laugh their ass off looking at drawings that rely heavily on the black lineart... i personally would love to stick to lineart.. but if thats not what their looking for then im wasting my time.
i hope this thread makes sense..
Hide this ad by registering as a memberMarch 13th, 2009 #2
The point of much of the full colour concept art is to show what the game will look (feel) like. Since most of the modern games aren't rendered in 2D, line art -- coloured or not -- doesn't serve. Flash and other 2D games require line art concept work, when they actually require it.
There's a great deal of work in the concept process that is line art; initial sketches, orthos, storyboards. This stuff isn't as sexy as the full colour, often painterly work. If you're okay not doing the colour concept work there's still a large part of the process you can engage in.
Put together a kick-ass portfolio of line art conceptual work and you'll get hired to do line-based work, but you won't get to do the sexy colour stuff.
Last edited by rpace; March 13th, 2009 at 05:33 PM. Reason: shouldn't type when on the phone
March 13th, 2009 #3
I can't answer your question specifically, because I am not a concept artist. But I still felt the need to respond to something you said:
i personally would love to stick to lineart.. but if thats not what their looking for then im wasting my time.
The point is, I didn't get bound by one specific type of artistic industry (in your case, concept art), but I still ended up in an artistic field. My interest in comic books and sculpting has made me a well-rounded artist (in my opinion of course), so I don't consider any of my past choices to be a "waste of time".
It's one thing to be dedicated to a specific field, but don't change what you enjoy just to achieve it. Just do your thing, try other things as you become interested, and you might be surprised where you end up. In fact, now I couldn't imagine doing comic book art. It's still awesome and I love comic art, but I found I personally do not enjoy creating sequential art. Times change.
March 13th, 2009 #4
People understandably have a lot of respect for concept artists who are great painters. However, my experience working in-house for game companies is that line art is just as good, perhaps even better, because it's usually faster and clearer what you're trying to convey. Fast iterations and variations of a basic concept are what you need to be able to do. If you can do that in "paint", that's A+ awesome (and more likely to make it into print in some gaming mag) but it is not necessary. The issue is the quality of the design, and the speed and clarity with which it is conveyed.
March 13th, 2009 #5
I've always liked Hyung Tae Kim's stuff despite some of the weird issues with anatomy that goes on in his work. The line work is obviously there, but there is variation in line thickness which helps prevent it from being over-powering and completely flattening the work...which is how it should be.
As digital becomes a more prominent working method, it becomes easier to hide linework. If you look at the concept art for Fallout 3 it has a really sketchy style, much of which I think was done traditionally. (At least I assume that's why Adam still had a big box of prismacolor markers XD)
March 13th, 2009 #6
I believe in Richard Shcmid's book he argues that almost any painting first starts with lines to some degree. It sounds like the vid's your talking about is what Loomis would call, "The Soft Approach", where you start with tone and work your way to edges which represent lines. I think you'd have to have reference material all worked out beforehand for this approach.
The point is, it sounds like your not intrested and confused by "tone". Some beginners refer to as "shading". To help understand it better, read Loomis' section on Tone. Most artist don't ween off of line art and instead just start working with some line art and then work in the tones. Look at most tutorials and they'll show the progression of thumbnails and roughs to tight drawings as starting off with line art usually in each step (maybe not thumbnails so much for most).
But if you think that's hard, wait till you get to color.
March 13th, 2009 #7
Comparing lineart to blocking in silhouettes is comparing apples to bananas - They serve completely different purposes.
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March 13th, 2009 #8
On line art, most of the industrial-designs I saw are based on lines and ID is AFAIK an integral part of the proces. Hell, did you even look at the concept-threads in the FF-section? I mean the one from Turok and such, not the portfolio, high-polished stuff. Lot's of line-scetches in there.
On the other hand, if you talk about polishing to illustration-quality for promotion and stuff, you're talking about illustration and not concept-art imo.
March 13th, 2009 #9
riceface, thank you for introducing me to Hyung Tae Kim. Inspiring stuff!
March 13th, 2009 #10
so your saying i dont have to ween off of my lineart....
the thing is... the best lineart arts + colored at best.. just looks likea high end comic book art...
but when u do that speed painting thing that alot of concept artist seem to know how to do.. u get sweeping landscapes, scale.. composition.. looks like a freakin painting. esp from far away. it will probably be really impressive to companies.. another thing is, with this technique.. people finish the drawing pretty dam fast...
but im pretty sure people who can do this.. are just as good as doing lineart work.. when i say lineart i mean fully colored but with the black lines...
am i sorta limited in my arsenal of art.. to prospective employers.
March 14th, 2009 #11
Plenty of concept artists still retain line in their works. Most of the folks who teach at Concept Design Academy lean towards keeping it. Here are a few samples:
Of course, let's not forget the master:
I don't think relying on line art is a crutch at all. It's merely another variation of the two main ways of drawing: like a draftsman (line) or a painter (mass). People tend to gravitate towards one direction or another, and the best learn how to do both.
Last edited by sfa; March 14th, 2009 at 04:04 AM.
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March 14th, 2009 #12
Why the hell do you put so much effort into comparing different types of art?
First it was western vs. eastern art, then it was 2D vs. 3D and now lineart vs. non-lineart. What's next? Pencils vs. erasers??
You need to get one point nailed in your head.
Art is subjective. You may think one thing is greatest thing in the world, the next guy might hate it.
There's no such thing as the 'best medium' or 'best type of art'.
Stop wasting your energy with these pointless comparisons and do what you want to do.
March 14th, 2009 #13
Originally Posted by Bowlin
March 14th, 2009 #14
ween /win/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ween]
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object) Archaic.
1. to think; suppose.
2. to expect, hope, or intend.
3. Gene & Dean Ween, kicking out the fuckin' jams.
wane /weɪn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [weyn]
verb, waned, wan⋅ing, noun
–verb (used without object)
1. to decrease in strength, intensity,
2. to decline in power, importance, prosperity,
3. to draw to a close; approach an end.
4. (of the moon) to decrease periodically in the extent of its illuminated portion after the full moon.
5. the word riceface keeps meaning to say.
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March 14th, 2009 #15
wean /win/ –verb (used with object)
1. to accustom (a child or young animal) to food other than its mother's milk; cause to lose the need to suckle or turn to the mother for food.
2. to withdraw (a person, the affections, one's dependency, etc.) from some object, habit, form of enjoyment, or the like: The need to reduce had weaned us from rich desserts.
3. The actual word I assume riceface was looking for and Grief forgot.
March 14th, 2009 #16
March 14th, 2009 #17
Damn Yoz Englisgh! All those words sound the same! right wright Right ride... fuck, no wonder you're always misunderstood...
March 14th, 2009 #18Ive noticed that lineart in concept art is near non existent
I don't get where is the problem. Painterly speepdpaintings are better for showing mood, feel of the game or movie. Line drawings are better for accuracy and speed so you can use it for designing things. You're not married to a certain style or technique. You can use both according to the need. This is where it's good to know the foundations. Good artist can then take anything that leaves mark and draw/paint amazing stuff with it.
Last edited by Farvus; March 14th, 2009 at 06:27 AM.
March 14th, 2009 #19
i guess all these super pros on youtube doing speed paintings so easily without any lineart made me see what i was up againts.. and if i had to at least live up to that level to even get a job,.. considering they have jobs doing concept art.. and lets face it.. alot of concept art (not all) do look the same.. that same quick paintery look. with full backgrounds and stuff. so if my work looks nothing like those guys.. of course im going to be curious about the level im suppose to be at to get work.
monster artist like this guy:
March 14th, 2009 #20
art isn't subjective when it comes to getting employeed. thats the whole point for me.. its what they want buddy.
March 14th, 2009 #21it feels a bit discouraging when ur sitting there trying to finalize the lineart of a drawing.. when ur competition drew an entire drawing + background in the same amount of time. is all
March 16th, 2009 #22
Working an art job isn't a candy coated fantasy. It's a job, it has to be done to pay the bills.
Most working artists are wishing they could spend more time making their own art and here you are doing the exact opposite.
Just be good at what you do, because imitation is only a dim reflection.
March 16th, 2009 #23
Interesting topic and I think the fact that Riceface is thinking in terms of 'what will get me a job' is also quite interesting.
I am no super pro or anything, I do mostly black and white illustrations for RPGs so far, because I haven't 'advertised' my color work, and I haven't done that yet, because I don't feel confident about it yet. But, I still get work, regardless if the work I do is just line art, tone drawings that retain the outline or tone drawings that have no outline (in the end result).
The way I see it is that all these are 'factors'. Line, Tone, Mass, Color, Composition (and maybe you should be worried about that more than you think). What partly gives an image appeal is the judgement of how you will balance each excisting factor that makes up an image.
To give you an example that won't be far away from line art look at this http://frankfrazetta.org/viewimage.p...nwithspear.jpg it's a lineart image with little tone. But, and this is a big BUT, the beauty and aesthetic of the image comes from the artist's judgement on where to use line, thicker line, shadow and halftone and HOW! Try copying this image, then try making something similar or remake it but use different judgement, make more halftone, or less, or use cross hatches or use hatches in a different direction. This is all just line mind you. Look at the results, you will realise that there is more to line than it being a crutch.
As for the rest, the way painters and digital painters work, go take some lessons on drawing from life, draw a few casts with charcoal, not too finished, just basic masses and you'll understand the thought process.
Don't let the problem of what style or way will get you work get in the way of your artistic development, because in the end all the client or employer will care about is the end result. But, use the high standard as a goal, an inspiration and a driving force to keep evolving. If you are looking for a safety measure to get work in this field (the way I see it so far) there isn't, it's better to be a laywer.
Take it step by step and the things you will want to retain and the way you use them will eventually result in your 'style' and if is has more line retained in to it, so be it.
Last edited by Line; March 16th, 2009 at 11:44 AM.
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March 16th, 2009 #24
"the crutch that is lineart"
You keep amazing me by putting some really weird statements in all your questions post that seems to have been grabbed out from thin air. O.o
There's a difference between lineart and initial sketch.....
"The fact that no one understands you doesn't make you an artist"
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April 21st, 2009 #25Registered User
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Drawing is not a crutch and I would hire a guy like this before anyone painting moody and loose images.
April 23rd, 2009 #26
Yeh Ian Mccaig is great.
The artwork in the original post is more for illustration purposes and comics. That piece by Joe Mad. is intended to be inked so he draws it with that in mind.
Speed is very important when it comes to concept artwork. You're creating ideas not finished paintings. Most concept artwork is done with very tight deadlines where you're expected to have 2 or 3 finished character concepts in a day.
Hope this helps,
April 24th, 2009 #27
May 3rd, 2009 #28
May 4th, 2009 #29
I can draw machine-precise lines. AND I simply can't paint from scratch. I need to draw a solid pencil drawing to scan.
The problem is that I SEE things as outlines. It's really difficult to see objects as planes and forms. I guess it's an Asian thing. Virtually all the traditional Asian paintings are heavily based on calligraphic line drawings.
May 4th, 2009 #30
A Mad Tea-Party (it's a webcomic)
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