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  1. #1
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    Art for art's sake.

    Do you agree?

    Art should be made for the sake of art. If I'm perceiving this correctly, basically, art should be made for the reason of making art. Art should be appreciated because it is art. It shouldn't be made because it conveys a specific message, it should be made just to have the pleasure of making art.

    Or do you think art should always have a specific message or emotion it conveys to the onlooker? Art should be made for a specific reason. It shouldn't be a mindless thing.



    I guess I've been struggling lately with these two opposites. It seems to me that "ars gratia artis" is more about what the artist experiences while art with a specific message is more about what the artist wants the audience to experience.

    Do you think there's a "right" one? Or should there be a balance of both?

    ♥♥ SKETCHBOOK ♥♥ BLOG ♥♥ PORTFOLIO ♥♥ dA GALLERY ♥♥

    If there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life.
    - Albert Camus
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  3. #2
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    Wouldn't you want to translate something you feel strongly about in the form of art? I think we do it naturally, subconsciously.

    It's a hard question to answer, just as it's hard to define art in general. What is art? Well, it's all up to what you think.

    Art for art's sake and art for, say, money's sake, can and often do overlap. You make art for yourself, and if someone else happens to like it, the meaning doesn't change.

    Check out my sketchbook? updated 02.01
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    Smile

    If it is art for personal reflection, yes go right ahead and take the art for arts approach it will definitely have meaning of some kind to you even if you are doing it just to relax. If your goal is to communicate with others your ideas, then you will have to step back and think about what it is your saying but be careful not to over think. Yes, some ideas do have a natural flow to them. Sometimes it might not take as much thought in cases with subjects that are very familiar to the arts. Sometimes it is great to get outside of the realm of what you do everyday and do some research it leads to new ideas and opens whole other realms.

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  5. #4
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    Why the obsession with absolutes?


    Tristan Elwell
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    art is for rhyming with fart

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  9. #6
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    i agree with you linguini. I hate it when art becomes disregarded because it doesn't convey current world issues, or symbolise certain aspects of society etc. Can't the reason behind it be 'Because the artist felt like doing it'?

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    Does everything in life must have a certain purpose? Be flexible.

    Make a sketchbook happy, feed it a tip to improve!

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=85628
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  11. #8
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    i agree with you linguini. I hate it when art becomes disregarded because it doesn't convey current world issues, or symbolise certain aspects of society etc. Can't the reason behind it be 'Because the artist felt like doing it'?
    __________________
    I dont think I've ever seen or experienced this I dont know who you people hang around.

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  12. #9
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    I didn't really mean to state an opinion of mine, I was just asking what other people felt. I've been trying to find a balance of both, and was wondering what other people thought and how they dealed with the two extremes.


    I guess there's a time where you feel so strongly about something, you feel the need to produce artwork on it while other times you just really want to draw zombies.

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    If there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life.
    - Albert Camus
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  13. #10
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    True, sometimes an artist wants to draw something they feel needs to be let out, other times they just want to draw crazy things. I'm like that, in both ways.

    But with people taking advantage of things for money, these days, both sides are becoming less appealing.

    Some people draw truly stupid things and call it art when they didn't even put some work to it. This gives a bad rep to artists who draw things for fun, but really do put some work into it.

    And those who draw things with meaning, like about politics, society, or the world today steal a lot of attention and can get more cash for the image, which to me is the equivalent of selling yourself out by being in a tv commercial to get attention as an artist/actor/writer/etc. This gives a bad rep to artists who truly do pour their emotions and thoughts into a meaningful piece of art.

    The world today is just plain upside down.

    ------
    Wait... What were we talking about?
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  14. #11
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    I agree completely with Elderwell about absolutes. Our minds love to present ultimatums with absolutes in them, part of wising up I think is looking beyond them.

    True, sometimes an artist wants to draw something they feel needs to be let out, other times they just want to draw crazy things. I'm like that, in both ways.

    But with people taking advantage of things for money, these days, both sides are becoming less appealing.
    Why would this hinder what you want to express or do with art? Let them have their fucking art shows starring a hundred dead fetuses or a tethered starving dog, what the hell does it matter to you? You're way too worried and hung up about the image of art in our culture and who you think is running away with the fame and cash, about our artistic representatives if you will. It's all irrelevant and a waste of your mental energies.

    Some people draw truly stupid things and call it art when they didn't even put some work to it. This gives a bad rep to artists who draw things for fun, but really do put some work into it.
    Why does it give them a bad rep? Why do you care? I think that's something you should really think about. Some people do cash in for stupid things while some people who work hard may not get the same treatment, but this is not exclusive to art. This is also a mindsink, move on. The silver lining is that the hacks don't enjoy their work and the artists who work because they like it do enjoy their work.

    The world today is just plain upside down.
    I used to be cynical too, except far more so. It took me a long time to figure out that it's all in vain and a waste. Just consider that there's more than one way to look at any given thing and you need to look at which view is actually going to be healthy and beneficial to you. I can look at the world as corrupt and assbackwards or I can look at it in a different light that isn't going to be such a drain on me.

    You don't need to justify why you do art. Sometimes there's not a tangible reason that can be articulated, it's something more personal. Art for your sake.

    SSG 37
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    I completely agree with Nam, and I don't want to bump this thread, but it deserves to be reiterated. What you do is all that should matter to you, stop trying to control other people's thoughts and ideas on art, life, politics, or anything else. If there is one thing I would like to be cynical of, it is this strange philosophy of objectivity in what is right and wrong in such personal matters. Your question, which is a personal one if I have ever heard one, cannot be generalised into a general definition. If people want to promote symbolism, let it be, if people want to paint a pretty picture, let it be. I remember winning best of show in highschool for a local exhibit, they held a ceremony and the head of the judges gave a long drawn-out explanation on what my painting conveyed to him. I thought it was a bunch of liberal shenanigans but if that image inspired him in the manner that he suggested, what right do I have to tell him he is wrong? I just wanted to make something pretty. The fact that someone can get so excited about art, regardless of the reason is pretty amazing, and more rewarding to me then having everyone try to think in the same manner I do. People overanalyze things, especially art, get used to it.

    Last edited by ethan karnopp; February 8th, 2009 at 07:49 PM.
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  16. #13
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    I think that it depends on the artist. Some want to say things, other just draw or paint for the sake of doing so. I think questioning these things is good for you but can also be crippling as well. If you focus too much on some sort of purpose or reason for doing something that you love, it will lead to doubt.

    I spent too much time wondering what was art and how people perceived me and because of this I have become too doubtful to show my work to people. Sometimes the doubt is so overwhelming that I can not start anything because I am worried about these types of questions.

    So...ponder it but know that there is no absolute answer. Don't let it get you.

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  17. #14
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    Art is what the artist has chosen it to mean by the very motivating act of doing the art in the first place.

    As you can see, the motives for doing art are as infinitely variable as the many individual artists themselves. You have to decide what it means to you. Seek out only those instances where the art reflects you, and your honest efforts to express yourself. I say it this way because if you do art for commercial reasons, try to work within areas that you believe reflects who you are or, always find something within the project that you can believe in to express who you are. To do art that you do not believe in will spiritually corrupt you - that I am certain.

    In today’s world there is an oppressive layer of people that sit on top of the art food chain that earn their living by interpreting art and setting themselves up as authorities. These are the galleries, media, college professors, art critics, professional cultural bureaucrats, and opportunist self promoting artists. These people do not create art, they create the hype, the sizzle - they are salesmen and promoters for their own self interest - and not necessarily an honest one at that. They are selling shoes, or bicycle tires. The fact that they talk of “Art” with a capital “A” is their good fortune because it is a prestige that many of them do not deserve, and was won by real artists struggling through the centuries.

    I think as artists we should stop beating ourselves up over this issue of what is art as defined by the Art Establishment. Without the artist, the Art Establishment has nothing to offer - nothing to sell. Art is what you make of it on your own terms, according to your own honest efforts at self expression. Free yourself from the box others want to put you in. Allow yourself the pleasure to create for your own sake. And try not to worry about it.

    Mike

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