Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 34
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,561
    Thanks
    147
    Thanked 397 Times in 177 Posts

    A short rant on CA's debating techinques...

    Sorry for wasting a thread here, but I just had to... I'm just tired of seeing possible learning experiences turning into childish rants (irony>).

    most of this is common sense, but sometimes I wonder...

    Aaaaaand.../Begin

    When you enter a debate, check your emotions at the door, pleeease. Its really pathetic that such possibilities for wholesome discussion end up like they usually do (in flame wars).

    Remember, you aren't debating with your opponent, you are debating with their statements. When you go after your opponent's character, you are neglecting his/her statements, and you consequently make yourself look like a idiot.

    Never use terms like liberals/conservatives/jews/christians/muslims/etc. in an obviously negative light for two reasons:
    1.)You are generalizing. This is one of the worst things you could do, as there are always portions of these groups that believe or act differently than the whole, which consequently makes you ignorant and your argument invalid.
    2.)Your opponent may be part of one of these groups, and the rest of the discussion will take a serious turn for the worse. You are now wasting your time, and your opponent will take think you are an idiot, and vice-versa.

    When you disagree with a statement, state why using facts/info/history, etc. When you disagree by saying, "that's not the way it works," or "you aren't accounting for all the evidence" without actually presenting said evidence or information, your argument becomes invalid, and you look like an idiot.

    Never take part in extended debate over moral issues, period. When it comes to these issues, state your stance, give substantial (otherwise your comment will be ignored) evidence as to why you believe the way you do, agree or agree to disagree, and move on. These debates are better carried on IRL, and when you actually know the person you are talking with. (The reason I italicized extended is because long debates over morality often get sucked into the vacuum of idiocy rather quickly.)

    ALL positions on a topic have weaknesses, even yours. Be ready to address them. When you do not address your weaknesses and instead attack your opponents statements, you have failed. This is because your position is now considered weak and inept by onlookers.

    Never interrupt debates with comments such as "shouldn't you be drawing?" If you don't understand why this makes you look like an idiot, feel free to pm me.

    Age is no indicator of wisdom. This one is from personal experience. I have seen youngsters beat older folks to a pussy pulp (figuratively of course). Among many examples, I had the pleasure of seeing a 22 year-old philosophy student at the university of Florida make a 56 year-old clergyman look like he didn't know anything about the religion he had studied for 30 years. Also, trying to disprove someone's statement by pointing out their youth doesn't work, and yes, makes you look like an idiot.

    edit: I'd also like to add alesoun's comment below: "always leave your opponent with his balls on."

    /end rant



    P.S. I know I'm not an expert, but I have read essays/books on the subject. (well, I never actually finished the books .)
    Last edited by Goog; January 30th, 2009 at 09:58 PM.


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Goog For This Useful Post:


  4. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    2,867
    Thanks
    1,131
    Thanked 1,406 Times in 562 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Goog View Post
    Never interrupt debates with comments such as "shouldn't you be drawing?" If you don't understand why this makes you look like an idiot, feel free to pm me.
    Thanks for all of that. All very truthful information. I especially appreciated the quote above. When someone says something along those lines, my reaction is as follows:
    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
    --- Frank Herbert, Dune - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

    Check out my Sketchbook! Critique and Criticism welcomed.

    or my Artstation

    Or my stream on Twitch! http://www.twitch.tv/wwsketch

  5. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The magical Kingdom.... of Fife
    Posts
    4,468
    Thanks
    1,135
    Thanked 1,584 Times in 1,007 Posts
    My granddaddy always taught me that the golden rule of debate was "always leave your opponent with his balls on."

    I live by that rule; even though the temptation is overwhelming sometimes..

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to alesoun For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    112
    Thanks
    67
    Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
    I was about to make a thread like this myself, you beat me to it I think the sole aspect of when things get nasty is personal slurs, if you want to say something to someone personally you should say it in pm, otherwise it degrades the quality of the discussion and then things get nasty and then the thread get's locked.

    I've got caught in the personal slur trap before but I'm trying to stop that now because it just doesn't achieve anything qualitative and should be imposed on debates and discussions in general I think.

    You've got something against someone just take it up in pm so noone else has to see the stupidity.

    Just my two dinar

  8. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Austin TX
    Posts
    11,707
    Thanks
    2,091
    Thanked 11,435 Times in 2,935 Posts
    fact is...some of you should be drawing.



    picard

  9. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Jason Manley For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  10. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    266
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 61 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Goog View Post
    Never use terms like liberals/conservatives/jews/christians/muslims/etc. in an obviously negative light for two reasons:
    1.)You are generalizing. This is one of the worst things you could do, as there are always portions of these groups that believe or act differently than the whole, which consequently makes you ignorant and your argument invalid.
    2.)Your opponent may be part of one of these groups, and the rest of the discussion will take a serious turn for the worse. You are now wasting your time, and your opponent will take think you are an idiot, and vice-versa.
    how easy to forgot and look like a bigot.

    Edit:I'm gonna add that a slur is still a slur when its hidden in your words. Ironic insults are just the same. You know when your putting someone on. Doing so is going to have the same effect as just saying it. Simply if you can't just say it, don't.
    Last edited by r.mccabe; January 30th, 2009 at 10:31 PM.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to r.mccabe For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    112
    Thanks
    67
    Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by r.mccabe View Post
    I'm gonna add that a slur is still a slur when its hidden in your words. Ironic insults are just the same. You know when your putting someone on. Doing so is going to have the same effect as just saying it. Simply if you can't just say it, don't.
    I agree, you can't imagine what it's like for a muslim (edit: a person who believes in god is probably better) to browse this forum sometimes, sarcasm helmets ftw!

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Gulzaar For This Useful Post:


  14. #8
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Gdansk, Poland
    Posts
    4,834
    Thanks
    887
    Thanked 1,570 Times in 755 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    fact is...some of you should be drawing.



    picard
    I couldn't help myself

    Attachment 579377

  15. The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to Farvus For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  16. #9
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,201
    Thanks
    4,875
    Thanked 16,685 Times in 5,021 Posts
    Someone should explain to Picard that that's not how you do a blind contour drawing.

    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  18. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,907
    Thanks
    816
    Thanked 2,279 Times in 625 Posts

  19. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Grief For This Useful Post:


  20. #11
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Gdansk, Poland
    Posts
    4,834
    Thanks
    887
    Thanked 1,570 Times in 755 Posts

  21. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Espoo, Finland
    Posts
    112
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts
    Is it some sort of irony that this thread is derailing into a pseudo-4chan environment?
    . t h o s e . w h o . d r i n k . t h e . d a r k .

    The-SSG-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named:
    Vehkt ~ Spaztastic ~ Realitychek ~ Lakeland ~ Shannanigan ~
    Me, Myself & Me Again

  22. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,907
    Thanks
    816
    Thanked 2,279 Times in 625 Posts
    farvus that last pic of picard looks a bit like you.
    and yes, i know what you look like... youve only posted half a thousand self portraits.

    Attachment 579401
    a classic.

    okay okay i'm done, getting out of the lounge for awhile.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Grief For This Useful Post:


  24. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,347
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 121 Times in 71 Posts
    My New Neglected Sketchbook
    You Ain't no Nina!.....

    "Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John Fitzgerald Kennedy
    "My mind is made up. Don't confuse it with facts." -- Terence McKenna

  25. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,561
    Thanks
    147
    Thanked 397 Times in 177 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Vehkt View Post
    Is it some sort of irony that this thread is derailing into a pseudo-4chan environment?
    haha, no man. Too much seriousness in one post has to be counterbalanced by Picard. Its physics.

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Goog For This Useful Post:


  27. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    801
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 428 Times in 168 Posts
    Pissing in a sea of piss, welcome to the intellectual forum debate.

  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DeadlyFreeze For This Useful Post:


  29. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Birth Place of the World, NYC
    Posts
    2,844
    Thanks
    2,664
    Thanked 1,049 Times in 686 Posts
    ?gniyas er'uoy tahw teg t'nod I

    .tihsllub fo hcnub a lla si siht

    !sehctib fo puorg a lla er'uoy

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director

  30. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,339
    Thanks
    222
    Thanked 427 Times in 154 Posts
    Yeah WHATEVER!

    Last edited by Costau D; January 31st, 2009 at 01:55 AM.
    ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER
    "Amateurs look for inspiration; the rest of us just get up and go to work. " -Chuck Close


    DRUNKEN WASTREL SKETCH GROUP:
    [ Costau D ][ Cuervo ][ Braintree ][ Fumble ][ Ookchk ][ RoboMonkey ]

  31. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    stuttgart, (sindelfingen)
    Posts
    1,211
    Thanks
    61
    Thanked 48 Times in 34 Posts
    Your artwork will benefit from general education and participating in debates.

    Think of artists like:

    Ilja Repin (I recently read his biography, really interesting)
    Marjane Satrapi
    Gottfried Hellnwein
    ▄▀▄▀▄▀■ - GORILLA ARTFARE - ■▀▄▀▄▀▄

  32. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 36 Times in 23 Posts
    God what a bunch of sooks, and shouldn't you guys be drawing?

  33. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    790
    Thanks
    423
    Thanked 295 Times in 144 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Farvus View Post
    I couldn't help myself

    Attachment 579377
    ohyou.jpeg

  34. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Uk
    Posts
    1,954
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked 306 Times in 200 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    didn't read it because i draw, but:

    A short rant on CA's debating techinques...

  35. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,023
    Thanks
    2,164
    Thanked 3,346 Times in 1,120 Posts
    What are we talking about in here? I'm talking about CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuu........


  36. The Following User Says Thank You to Jason Rainville For This Useful Post:


  37. #24
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    4,047
    Thanks
    644
    Thanked 1,274 Times in 408 Posts
    Aaaah! what tune is that jason? I know it so well, but i can't pinpoint it!

    //edit: Doh.. kirby! *picard facepalm*

    //edit2: Hilariousness:


  38. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    4,193
    Thanks
    5,154
    Thanked 2,053 Times in 1,109 Posts
    Okay, so am I the only one who sees the humor in an intelligent lecture on behavior, given by Sweetums?

  39. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,232
    Thanks
    679
    Thanked 863 Times in 364 Posts
    To those who, like me, didnt know what sweetums referred to and have looked it up in google image, well this:

    A short rant on CA's debating techinques...

    is NOT the one TASmith is talking about!

  40. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    4,193
    Thanks
    5,154
    Thanked 2,053 Times in 1,109 Posts
    Anyone who doesn't know Sweetums needs to get Muppets Season 2 on DVD.

    "Pretty lady make good fondu?"
    Lady says..."Uh, well that depends. Would I be the cook? or the dish?
    "Well, you're quite a dish!"

  41. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,883
    Thanks
    752
    Thanked 3,153 Times in 1,066 Posts
    First rule when writing any kind of argument, don't use "You." It casts blame on the other person.
    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."

  42. #29
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    440
    Thanks
    323
    Thanked 184 Times in 106 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckWeisel View Post
    First rule when writing any kind of argument, don't use "You." It casts blame on the other person.
    So what would a certain individual do when engaging in an argument where there's an accusation, or evidence to support the accusation, at hand?
    "Someone dropped this bowl of cereal. Someone should clean this up!"

    This is like coddling a baby or a child, and provides more detriment than solution.

  43. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Southern Alberta
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 407 Times in 164 Posts
    Obviously you're one of those rational people!
    The truth will set you free,
    but first it's gonna piss you off!

    Website
    www.ceandersonart.com

    Facebook
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Ed-...47726545290769

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: May 19th, 2013, 07:12 AM
  2. Replies: 26
    Last Post: November 25th, 2012, 08:22 PM
  3. Can I rant here?
    By Jason Rainville in forum Artist Lounge
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: February 27th, 2007, 12:15 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.