Hi, I am from Brazil and I am loking foward to apply for the conceptart.org atelier, someone can spare some info about the couse, the school or anything else? (the site is a little vage)
Thanks a lot!
Threads showing student's work:
profiles of some students from there (PM them if you want information that is otherwise not available, students are more likely to answer questions than teachers, normally):
And another thing, neither of you have the skills to enroll in this yet given the work I've seen from that school. Neither have I. People who enrolled there like Cole Eastburn or Whit Brachna already had an insanely huge ammount of training before getting there. Show that you can bust your ass there by busting your ass here first.
Last edited by ~Faust~; May 10th, 2009 at 06:45 AM. Reason: added a thread from the FF-section
When I first found out about the school and decided I need to go, I made the same mistake of emailing all of my questions to Jason or Carl. However, you come to realize pretty quickly that with everything they have going on, they don't have a lot of free time to answer questions from every potentially interested person. Show them you're serious by busting your ass and submitting a portfolio, and you'll be more likely to get a response from them.
It's an atelier, not a university. They don't have a fleet of support staff. There is only one person running admissions, I believe, and that's Carl. So I'm sure you can appreciate just how little time he probably has to answer questions that can be answered by the Search function. Just search titles for 'atelier' and you will find several threads where people ask questions about the school.
If you want more specific info about the school, like Faust said, ask both current and former students. I PMed several with my questions, and all of them were extremely helpful and very nice about answering my questions. The best advice I got was that to get into that school, you pretty much have to want it more than anything. Show them you are serious by improving on your own. Learn the basics. Teach yourself anatomy and light and color theory, and they will help you take those skills to a more professional level.
Everything Faust linked is good physical proof. If you need more of it, go to the Massive Black website and just start clicking buttons. If you can't learn from those artists, then you can't learn from anyone. They have information on the general courses and progression. The school is personalized, so you're not going to find a timetable of classes.
Also keep in mind that this school is pretty intense. From what I've been told it can run anywhere from 9 hours a day to in excess of 12 hours a day. It's not something you can dawdle through just doing your assignments. Make sure you're devoted to this career choice and that you're ready to bust your ass before applying there.
Jeez, no need to get testy, Faust. I had no idea the Atelier was basically ran by two people. I figured if I was able to be accepted at the American Academy of Art (but not go since I didn't want to leave my parents and myself in debt for the rest of our lives), that I'd at least have a small, if not microscopic shot at being accepted to the Atelier, so I'm sorry for offending you with a little hope. The worst that could happen is that one is told "no." In which the response is to bust one's ass harder.
And about the "physical proof", by the way, I know about the forums and the student work already. You don't go on an art website expecting to not find images of art. I'm talking about official papers or forms one needs to show off to one's parents or an accountant in order to try to obtain a student loan. I'm not going to walk in the bank with my laptop praying they have a wi-fi connection.
Faust, thank you for your constructive, yet very unnecessary rudeness.
Mock, thank you for telling me a little more detail about the school and that I should try to contact other students about this. I'm on it now. You've been very helpful.
The school isn't a typical accredited university, so I'm not sure how student loans would work. I know many student loan companies require that a school be accredited or registered or however the heck they do it in order to provide a loan. However, there are student loans available for training, so you might want to look into those if you're looking for financing.
As far as the overall cost goes, the tuition isn't what's going to cost you at the Atelier. It's the living expenses in SF. Unless you have family in the area you are either going to have to get really lucky, or you're going to be forking out a lot of money just to live in a shady part of town.
well, about loans i have searched for them myself, and i couldn't find one, you cant get a student loan because its not a certified/recognized school by the us government, as mock and faust said before its a small private atelier. You could get private loans but that would mean you had to start to pay even when you were in school and give some guarantee to the bank (eg. home, car etc...). Mock said about student loans available for training, i saw that and couldn't get one because i couldn't prove that i was going to and training program because, again... its a not recognized private school.
i must say another problem that you will find out is the VISA problem, again because is not a certified/recognized school you CANT get an student visa, an trainee visa (b-2) or a worker visa. Because of that you must leave the country every 90days, you could however ask for an extension of the visitors visa(b-1) for plus 90days, but must say that you need luck to get those, which this means that this will cost you extra money to travel every 90 days somewhere for 2 years(time of the school), and you cant "cheat" by traveling like to Canada or Mexico, because those countries doesn't count!
If you are serious about attending the atelier, do what a site does to do
"Failure to follow simple instructions gets you off on the wrong foot, so triple check everything and pay attention to detail! Start acting professional now and you’ll go far."
I must say that sentence refers to the portfolio, but this message must be applied also for the money/financial support, place to stay, visa's etc...
I did all the maths about the costs for the two years + the travels + a rent room (400 dollars month + cost, must say that, this is one of the cheapest ones in SF!) + food + material (laptop if you dont have one, oils, canvas, etc...) + extras(because you never know when you will need it for an emergency)
Is +/- 40 000 us dollars (35 000 for us-citizens), this is an round number, and i doubt that you will expend every penny of it, again i recommend to have at least that quantity of money in order to focus mainly on art and nothing more! of course you could work part-time... but as a non American-citizen, you wont be able to do so, legally, and even if you get one you only could work for 90days at the time ... and dont forget that you have 9~12 hours of school.
I dont want to demoralize any one! seriously, i just want to know that just being serious about going is not enough! you MUST HAVE the money in order to go, even if you dont have you MUST GUARANTEE that some one will SUPPORT YOU FINANCIALLY!
If you have work out every problem that i mentioned, then you should work now in your best portfolio EVER, send it and wait to get accepted.
I really hope that you and anyone who is SERIOUS about going can make it.
i hope my help was useful,
Last edited by Call0ps; January 27th, 2009 at 09:30 AM.
Thanks for the info I'm sorry about bothering everyone, I AM researching (that's why I made this topic). Honestly it was a little "misterious" to me, and I was anxious for some information. I don't want it on a silver plate, I just want to share my will to study there, and the experiences of those who alredly did it.
Thanks a lot Call0ps, I think you are right, It will damn hard, but I'll try to get some money (most of it) BEFORE going. I'll just have to think about that damn 90-days problem... If I need to do that I'm totally fucked up, the trip to Brazil is expansive.
I'm really interested in the atelier, I have no doubts about its quality and I'm anxious to travel to any other country, seeing another cultures are important too.
Just something else, you mentioned that the course duration is 2 years, are you sure of it?
I forgot to include this in the last post. I KNOW that I'm not ready to go there YET. I mean, I am training a lot, and I believe that anyone with proper study and with the dedication(this one I got, believe me) can get there.
And I promess I will.
yes, i'm pretty sure. i think what you should do while you save the money is keep drawing non-stop in order to make an awesome portfolio, because the competition is tough and spots are REALLY really limited. Either way im glad it was useful and i hope all question about the atelier has been answered (also for future candidates)
i think the site answers every question you need ABOUT the actual school everything else thats your individual work and research
about room you can search on the top link
and about visa you can call to the us embassy in your country, because theres different legal issues depending on the country.
Last edited by Call0ps; January 27th, 2009 at 12:58 PM.
For tuition, rent, and eating mostly ramen for two years you'd need a minimum of around $28,000. Like Call0ps said, you must be prepared to go in case you get accepted. Think about things like transportation, expenses if your car breaks down, entertainment cost if you want to fly to workshops or go to parties, etc. The school is very competitive, so if you get in and expect them to hold your spot until you get the money, you're taking a spot that other people who could start immediately could be taking advantage of.
Like call0ps said, you want to be able to devote all of your time to art. The reason people who graduate from the Atelier are so damn great isn't because Carl pulls his magic fairy wand out of his ass, taps them on the face, and grants them magical abilities. It's because they work their asses off. Both in the atelier and when they get home. You CAN work part time and still attend classes, but something will suffer, and it will likely be your sleeping schedule which takes the hit.
Want it more than anything, and you'll find a way. Just remember that the Atelier isn't the only path to success. Classes can help you, but its your own work ethic and desire to succeed that will make or break your ability to succeed as an artist.
example schedule listed on the ConceptArt.org Atelier Information page the actual work day aligns to would you?
burning_chrome . to the first question... NO! you dont need any kind of art schools experience. what makes your accepted or not is your own portfolio. Anyone with any background or none of it can apply, only the bests ones will be chosen.
About the schedule, its says example, but im pretty sure thats quite it, 2 years, from 8 to 12 hours of work per day, maybe more depending on what you working.
I think this thread answered almost every question there is to know about the atelier. any extra USEFUL info is welcome
Last edited by Call0ps; February 1st, 2009 at 07:31 AM.
Call0ps, thanks for the quick response to my inquiry
Next question: how essential would it be to have your own car if living in San Francisco ? I know of Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART), but I have no clue how it ranks against other major U.S. metropolitan mass transit systems like New York or Boston.