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Threads showing student's work:
profiles of some students from there (PM them if you want information that is otherwise not available, students are more likely to answer questions than teachers, normally):
And another thing, neither of you have the skills to enroll in this yet given the work I've seen from that school. Neither have I. People who enrolled there like Cole Eastburn or Whit Brachna already had an insanely huge ammount of training before getting there. Show that you can bust your ass there by busting your ass here first.
Last edited by ~Faust~; May 10th, 2009 at 06:45 AM. Reason: added a thread from the FF-section
When I first found out about the school and decided I need to go, I made the same mistake of emailing all of my questions to Jason or Carl. However, you come to realize pretty quickly that with everything they have going on, they don't have a lot of free time to answer questions from every potentially interested person. Show them you're serious by busting your ass and submitting a portfolio, and you'll be more likely to get a response from them.
It's an atelier, not a university. They don't have a fleet of support staff. There is only one person running admissions, I believe, and that's Carl. So I'm sure you can appreciate just how little time he probably has to answer questions that can be answered by the Search function. Just search titles for 'atelier' and you will find several threads where people ask questions about the school.
If you want more specific info about the school, like Faust said, ask both current and former students. I PMed several with my questions, and all of them were extremely helpful and very nice about answering my questions. The best advice I got was that to get into that school, you pretty much have to want it more than anything. Show them you are serious by improving on your own. Learn the basics. Teach yourself anatomy and light and color theory, and they will help you take those skills to a more professional level.
Everything Faust linked is good physical proof. If you need more of it, go to the Massive Black website and just start clicking buttons. If you can't learn from those artists, then you can't learn from anyone. They have information on the general courses and progression. The school is personalized, so you're not going to find a timetable of classes.
Also keep in mind that this school is pretty intense. From what I've been told it can run anywhere from 9 hours a day to in excess of 12 hours a day. It's not something you can dawdle through just doing your assignments. Make sure you're devoted to this career choice and that you're ready to bust your ass before applying there.
Jeez, no need to get testy, Faust. I had no idea the Atelier was basically ran by two people. I figured if I was able to be accepted at the American Academy of Art (but not go since I didn't want to leave my parents and myself in debt for the rest of our lives), that I'd at least have a small, if not microscopic shot at being accepted to the Atelier, so I'm sorry for offending you with a little hope. The worst that could happen is that one is told "no." In which the response is to bust one's ass harder.
And about the "physical proof", by the way, I know about the forums and the student work already. You don't go on an art website expecting to not find images of art. I'm talking about official papers or forms one needs to show off to one's parents or an accountant in order to try to obtain a student loan. I'm not going to walk in the bank with my laptop praying they have a wi-fi connection.
Faust, thank you for your constructive, yet very unnecessary rudeness.
Mock, thank you for telling me a little more detail about the school and that I should try to contact other students about this. I'm on it now. You've been very helpful.
The school isn't a typical accredited university, so I'm not sure how student loans would work. I know many student loan companies require that a school be accredited or registered or however the heck they do it in order to provide a loan. However, there are student loans available for training, so you might want to look into those if you're looking for financing.
As far as the overall cost goes, the tuition isn't what's going to cost you at the Atelier. It's the living expenses in SF. Unless you have family in the area you are either going to have to get really lucky, or you're going to be forking out a lot of money just to live in a shady part of town.
well, about loans i have searched for them myself, and i couldn't find one, you cant get a student loan because its not a certified/recognized school by the us government, as mock and faust said before its a small private atelier. You could get private loans but that would mean you had to start to pay even when you were in school and give some guarantee to the bank (eg. home, car etc...). Mock said about student loans available for training, i saw that and couldn't get one because i couldn't prove that i was going to and training program because, again... its a not recognized private school.
i must say another problem that you will find out is the VISA problem, again because is not a certified/recognized school you CANT get an student visa, an trainee visa (b-2) or a worker visa. Because of that you must leave the country every 90days, you could however ask for an extension of the visitors visa(b-1) for plus 90days, but must say that you need luck to get those, which this means that this will cost you extra money to travel every 90 days somewhere for 2 years(time of the school), and you cant "cheat" by traveling like to Canada or Mexico, because those countries doesn't count!
If you are serious about attending the atelier, do what a site does to do
"Failure to follow simple instructions gets you off on the wrong foot, so triple check everything and pay attention to detail! Start acting professional now and you’ll go far."
I must say that sentence refers to the portfolio, but this message must be applied also for the money/financial support, place to stay, visa's etc...
I did all the maths about the costs for the two years + the travels + a rent room (400 dollars month + cost, must say that, this is one of the cheapest ones in SF!) + food + material (laptop if you dont have one, oils, canvas, etc...) + extras(because you never know when you will need it for an emergency)
Is +/- 40 000 us dollars (35 000 for us-citizens), this is an round number, and i doubt that you will expend every penny of it, again i recommend to have at least that quantity of money in order to focus mainly on art and nothing more! of course you could work part-time... but as a non American-citizen, you wont be able to do so, legally, and even if you get one you only could work for 90days at the time ... and dont forget that you have 9~12 hours of school.
I dont want to demoralize any one! seriously, i just want to know that just being serious about going is not enough! you MUST HAVE the money in order to go, even if you dont have you MUST GUARANTEE that some one will SUPPORT YOU FINANCIALLY!
If you have work out every problem that i mentioned, then you should work now in your best portfolio EVER, send it and wait to get accepted.
I really hope that you and anyone who is SERIOUS about going can make it.
i hope my help was useful,
Last edited by Call0ps; January 27th, 2009 at 08:30 AM.
Thanks for the info I'm sorry about bothering everyone, I AM researching (that's why I made this topic). Honestly it was a little "misterious" to me, and I was anxious for some information. I don't want it on a silver plate, I just want to share my will to study there, and the experiences of those who alredly did it.
Thanks a lot Call0ps, I think you are right, It will damn hard, but I'll try to get some money (most of it) BEFORE going. I'll just have to think about that damn 90-days problem... If I need to do that I'm totally fucked up, the trip to Brazil is expansive.
I'm really interested in the atelier, I have no doubts about its quality and I'm anxious to travel to any other country, seeing another cultures are important too.
Just something else, you mentioned that the course duration is 2 years, are you sure of it?
I forgot to include this in the last post. I KNOW that I'm not ready to go there YET. I mean, I am training a lot, and I believe that anyone with proper study and with the dedication(this one I got, believe me) can get there.
And I promess I will.
yes, i'm pretty sure. i think what you should do while you save the money is keep drawing non-stop in order to make an awesome portfolio, because the competition is tough and spots are REALLY really limited. Either way im glad it was useful and i hope all question about the atelier has been answered (also for future candidates)
i think the site answers every question you need ABOUT the actual school everything else thats your individual work and research
about room you can search on the top link
and about visa you can call to the us embassy in your country, because theres different legal issues depending on the country.
Last edited by Call0ps; January 27th, 2009 at 11:58 AM.
For tuition, rent, and eating mostly ramen for two years you'd need a minimum of around $28,000. Like Call0ps said, you must be prepared to go in case you get accepted. Think about things like transportation, expenses if your car breaks down, entertainment cost if you want to fly to workshops or go to parties, etc. The school is very competitive, so if you get in and expect them to hold your spot until you get the money, you're taking a spot that other people who could start immediately could be taking advantage of.
Like call0ps said, you want to be able to devote all of your time to art. The reason people who graduate from the Atelier are so damn great isn't because Carl pulls his magic fairy wand out of his ass, taps them on the face, and grants them magical abilities. It's because they work their asses off. Both in the atelier and when they get home. You CAN work part time and still attend classes, but something will suffer, and it will likely be your sleeping schedule which takes the hit.
Want it more than anything, and you'll find a way. Just remember that the Atelier isn't the only path to success. Classes can help you, but its your own work ethic and desire to succeed that will make or break your ability to succeed as an artist.
example schedule listed on the ConceptArt.org Atelier Information page the actual work day aligns to would you?
burning_chrome . to the first question... NO! you dont need any kind of art schools experience. what makes your accepted or not is your own portfolio. Anyone with any background or none of it can apply, only the bests ones will be chosen.
About the schedule, its says example, but im pretty sure thats quite it, 2 years, from 8 to 12 hours of work per day, maybe more depending on what you working.
I think this thread answered almost every question there is to know about the atelier. any extra USEFUL info is welcome
Last edited by Call0ps; February 1st, 2009 at 06:31 AM.
Call0ps, thanks for the quick response to my inquiry
Next question: how essential would it be to have your own car if living in San Francisco ? I know of Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART), but I have no clue how it ranks against other major U.S. metropolitan mass transit systems like New York or Boston.
It's a very interesting thread with a lot of helpful information. But i didn't knew that the atelier doesn't give a student visa. So i guess there are only American students at the atelier? Cause who would fly back to his home country every 3 months, thats insanely expensive.
burning_chrome well ... theres many available rooms near the actual atelier so you wouldn't need to have a car unless you would like/had to live in it, which is also an option, a cheaper one. You got the electric and bus, not sure how much it costs to travel every day per month tough, but you can Google it =o
Sky Eagle its not only for American Students is for every one, Americans have the advantage of not needing the VISA. International students would have to spent extra money because of the extra flights, and i know for fact there were 2 international students who attended the atelier
Last edited by Call0ps; February 1st, 2009 at 11:21 AM.
Please note that this is all just opinion. I haven't been, and I don't think I'm good enough to get accepted yet, but this is how I view it.
If you want to go, I would suggest following one basic principle: pursue it relentlessly. Submit a portfolio when you think you're ready, and if you don't get a response, submit another in 6 - 12 months or whenever you feel you've improved significantly. You're pursuing your dream career, and the path is never easy. Make sure you can devote your time to it, and make sure you're ready to spend 8+ hours a day drawing and learning. It's definitely not the kiddie pool.
Burning_chrome, there's a really diverse mix of students. Some with art school backgrounds, some without. I think Call0ps has it right. Your art, and your attitude, determine whether or not you're accepted.
From what I've read, and experienced first hand, dedicated hard work is the only ticket into Atelier. Take Cole Eastburn, for example. He has no real art school training. He buckled down and worked his ass off on his own; studied and practiced for hours every single day. When the dust settled, he was headed for San Francisco in a nearly dead car. He worked damn hard for it and he totally deserves his new job at Blizzard.
Also, if anyone has any questions about cost of living in San Francisco, ask here or send me a PM. I just moved here and I've done ridiculous amounts of research. I can give you specific numbers by the day/week/whatever (think $40/day, at best). Oh, by the way, there are absolutely no jobs here, period. If you want to come here and find a side job while you go to school, forget it. My girlfriend sends 20 to 30 emails every single day and gets 0 responses, none, ever. I'm not exaggerating, unfortunately. Save up, take out a loan or keep a freelance gig. Every major retailer is going under (circuit city just collapsed, virgin is shutting down and even the legendary macy's downtown is kaput). San Francisco has the second highest percentage of college graduate level citizens in the country. Combine that with the dismal retail state and you're left with a very small margin of average-joe kind of jobs.
I'm not trying to be cynical, I just wish someone would have gave me a bit of this info as a heads up ;P
Last edited by sourgasm; February 27th, 2009 at 05:47 AM.
Yeah. I'm actually going to be selling my car before I move there once I save up money. As for the job situation. I live in Phoenix, a fairly huge city, and I have a 4 year degree in Biochem. I STILL can't even get a job in retail. =P The job market sucks, so yeah. I would suggest making sure you have enough to live and pay tuition for several months. Money is the #1 reason I haven't sent in my portfolio yet.
Sourgasm, I'm going to shoot you a PM concerning rent costs and such.
Your icon never fails to crack me up
If you drive fairly often then your cost of transportation will actually go down if you switch to public transit. At the very most, you'll pay 45/month for an unlimited rides pass that works on all buses, cable cars and above ground rails. I only pay about a third of that price, though. BART is extra but you'll very rarely, if ever, need BART.
You can get a room to live in for fairly cheap or, at least, cheap in comparison to SF apartment prices. I'm fortune enough to have my girlfriend along for the ride, so everything is split 50/50. Otherwise I'd be paying the same price I pay for my half of rent but living in a single room and having a shared bathroom/kitchen/etc.
Ewoks need lovin' too.
Yeah, I was looking at SF apartment prices. Preeeetty crazy.
Anything under $1000 is almost guaranteed to be a studio in a don't-go-out-past-8pm part of town heh. You have to treat craigslist like a 9-5 job if you aim to get a good deal on a good place. Narrow down where you want to live, and set as many appointments as possible in those areas for the days after you arrive. Stay in a hotel, and go on an apartment viewing rampage. We saw as many as 6 apartments a day, every day, when we first got here.
I hope this all helps and I'm not just rambling away and bothering people
In regards to the school itself, don't skim through Call0ps posts, because he's got it right on. I worked multiple jobs, worked overtime and saved up for a few months. Then I quit and put myself on a rigorous curriculum of intensive study, extensive observation and relentless practice. I applied, and told Carl that I was coming for him. Moved to SF before he had a chance to respond, put together a second, vastly improved portfolio, and applied again. I'll keep hitting them up until I get in.
You have to approach it like this is what you are meant to do and you have to give up anything for it. Anything less is cheating yourself.
Lastly, here is the budget I'm working from. This goes for living with another person in a $1200/month studio apartment.
24 months, $600/month - $14,400 total
supplies, $500 (guesstimation)
Cost of living, one year
$33,780 for 24 months
or $1,407 / month
I cook every night and never go out to do anything at all. If you go to concerts, eat fast food, etc, your cost will go up dramatically.
Last edited by sourgasm; February 27th, 2009 at 04:40 PM.
And I'm with you completely on the "my commitment feeling like a joke" part after reading sour's diehard crusade to get into the atelier.
Last edited by burning_chrome; February 27th, 2009 at 05:28 PM.
Daaaamn. You make my commitment feel like a joke. =P I need to crank it up a notch.
Personal request in the even that I do somehow end up in the Bay Area: could you list the good/bad districts and neighborhoods so when I'm searching on Craigslist for housing I'll know what criteria to specify?
Check your PM please
There are plenty of completely safe areas in SF, that's for sure. I restricted my search to all non-Tenderloin and non-Civic Center areas located north of Market Street and East of Van Ness. I chose this area specifically because of great bus line coverage in most areas and convenience for basic needs. There is an area that lies just south/west of Nob Hill, while still remaining outside of the Tenderloin, that is a perfect combination of affordability and convenience. You'll probably have to have a roommate to afford it, though. If you're moving without a roommate, all of the areas West of Van Ness and North of Market offer reasonably cheap rooms for rent. I routinely see single rooms with shared bathroom/kitchen for $450 - $600. That sounds high, but I assure you, it's cheap for SF.
If you go south of Market, things get distinctly more complicated. If you head way South, make sure you stay West or you get into some really bad areas. The Mission district is where it's at for art and culture, but it can be pretty dirty and what not. Atelier is located just a few blocks out of Mission in the general SOMA area, so the Mission is pretty convenient in that regard.
This Web site is immensely helpful for getting a quick idea of general neighborhood layout and flavor. He's a bit off here and there, but it's the best I've found for a standard guideline.
To the interested to apply into the atelier. Please don't waste either your or ateliers people time if you have second toughs! (read this threat first!) But don't do it "blindly" either. Make sure that you got all the necessary condition before apply (check previous posts), and also make sure that in case that you don't have all the money, your financial supporters stays with you trough the end! They(financial supporters) should/must know everything about the school as much or even more than you do!
small story, i had the luck to get accepted into the atelier ( the planets and the stars probably were aligned when that happen >< ) and my financial supports backed off when i said it was an atelier wouldn't give me like a degree/diploma of any kind (which i knew, but they didn't) + atelier CANT give any kind of visa to anyone. So due to lack of money i wasn't able to go. i hope my mistakes helps others in similar situations as i do, and my research in order to go the SF is actually useful to someone.
also ~Faust~, Mock and sourgasm, gave every single information that is need BEFORE apply! read, use common sense. Dont try to get the "standard level to get accepted", just try to go beyond your limits everyday.
There are no second thoughts or doubts on my end as far as joining ConceptArt Atelier if the planets and stars should align in my favor. As for financial backing, I've been working full time for quite some time now so there's no issue of depending on funding from second or third parties.
As for the issue of diplomas and Visas, I don't want the first item and I don't need the second one since I'm already a citizen.
Call0ps, since you were accepted into the program, would you mind if I PMed you with a question or two? Thanks.