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So I've decided to start a sketchbook and join a sketchgroup, so as to keep on drawing daily and receiving critiques. I just started to draw September 2008, and I've been focusing on figure drawing and drawing from life, so I'll see where I go with all of this. I'm going to be putting all of my work here, not just what I think looks good, so please critique the crap out of everything. Be blunt, be evil, if it helps me get better, I'm all for it.
Here's some stuff that I've done over these last few months. The messy figures are 90 second gesture drawings from posemaniacs... what a wonderful site.
Thanks for any and all help guys.
EDIT: New stuff at last pages, don't look here unless you want your eyes pooped on.
Last edited by cdejong; July 2nd, 2010 at 03:24 PM.
hey there sebbon; an impressive start. I think you're definitively on the right track for figure studies. only I wouldnt start on such complicated figures for muscle studies. di simple layouts, or just do small parts. I'd suggest to start on the hands and feet as you seem to be skimming over those
I'm also a little worried over the quality of you scans. these scans are workable, but it is distracting. maybe cut off the dark parts before scanning if that's possible -that makes the auto contrast of you scanner do a lot better a job on these. and do you have photoshop or something? then you can change the lvl's a bit (control- L) to what you actual drawing looked like.
Agreeing with Ashess. You're definitely on the right track with your figure studies, especially with doing some in perspective. Try to think more about the underlying bone structure, though. It will help some of them look more solid.
Ashess: Thanks for the info, I'm taking your advice and doing some Brigdman studies as well as adjusting the image levels in photoshop (good idea). I use a camera because I don't have a scanner, and sometimes the light is just plain bad and ruins the photo. Hope these are better, I adjusted them in PS.
Mock: I will definitely put more thought to underlying bone structure... I think I'm going to try some of Loomis's stuff with building up the figure from the inside out... hopefully my stuff will gain some solidity.
I took my first figure drawing class with a live model today. How fun! I really enjoyed it, can't wait for next week. I ended the night with some Bridgeman studies labeling the muscles and bones of the hand... tomorrow I'll focus on the hand with more artistically centered Bridgeman studies.
I gotto say these do look a lot better. but ye photos is always harder. as for improving the photoquality, the light is already petty good for a photo. maybe you have a 'close' option on your camera. that can still help a little.
as for the pictures themselves, I like where you put down some shadow; it gives the figure a lot more debth. you might want to check for consistency a bit. like the 2nd, the arm has a shadow on the belly, but not its own shadow on the arm. also, the feet are better here, and you got some good hands studies going on next to the figures. but again you skimmed over the hands a little. the shape is ok,but watch for shadows and in-figure lines. otherwise I have to say, these are some pretty nice observational studies.
I'm not sure how long your modelclass took. but didnt you make more then 2 though? we used to start with 5 min poses then make longer ones after 3-5 of those.
I can see you studiying Bridgeman, He's top notch.
With you posemaniacs thing. I have a problem with that longer studys.
I beleive Posemaniacs has "painted on muscle", which for me is a problem I Imagine them overlaping, I try to make the figures beleivable in my mind.
I make the overlap clear, so somtimes i exaggerate and tone downs the muscles.
Also try to be aware of porportions, I check mine with the help of this block in method. You can also look up various cannons of porpotions, And the make your own.
I suggest lay ins are used for your quick sketches, a lay in is a start, a bad start means everything that follows will collapse. Like an mansion built on quicksand.
I do my lay ins by Frank Reilly and Other methods which are found by the profesionals on the site. Go look around, you can also try and invent your own like Mentler has done.
Last edited by Fitzin; January 16th, 2009 at 02:29 AM.
One thing I am slowly learning with Bridgman is that its best to use his work to learn the forms, and then access a lot of photos and try to draw those in the same muscle/bone format as Bridgman does in his books. Otherwise it gets too easy just to memorize the forms as you see them, rather than as they function. That said, you're doing great. I can already see improvement on the life drawings.
Keep at it. I know it's a long, tough road, lol.
Ashess: Thanks for the tips, I'll take them into account in the future. I only posted up two of my figure drawings because I don't want to post up all of them... it is too time consuming. If you really think I should post them all from now on, I will, but I thought it would be a waste because it's pretty much more of the same thing.
Fitzin: I agree with you on the posemaniacs anatomy model... Bridgman is much better to do studies from. Thanks a million for those links, super informative (especially the Reilly link), I'll have plenty of studying to do just from that link. Cheers.
Mock: Thanks for the info, I'll study Bridgman's stuff and then do studies of my own hands and feet tomorrow for sure. Thanks for the encouragement.
Ok, not a big update here. I gave a shot at a self portrait in the mirror, but it was really tough because I had to hold my sketchbook on the edge of the bathroom sink to use the bathroom mirror. Really awkward position for drawing, and it ended up making it a lot more difficult than I was hoping for. Still, it was a fun exercise and I think I'm going to do one every day now. This one was a 10-15 minute charcoal sketch, came out pretty shoddy due to the really sloppy shading. Tomorrow I'll make it more unified... rip it to shreds for anything you can see though, please do.
Thanks for stopping in DaStreets, I'll happily oblige.
Another self portrait (in graphite) and some more Bridgman studies and life studies of my own hand (the page with hand studies under the dotted line). The self portrait turned out really shoddy again... I think the problem lies in that I have to stand up to do the portrait and hold my sketchbook in my arms to do the portrait, so I end up moving my head a lot more than I should. Screws up the proportions pretty bad. That's a terrible excuse though, so tomorrow I'm going to try to find another mirror somewhere in the house, and then I can't blame it on the mirror!
Also sorry for the terrible quality of the pictures, I took these late at night with dim lighting.
Thanks for stopping in.
I sincerly declare that some of the porportions of those bridgeman studies are a bit off. You need further memorisation of how the front profile relates to the side view.
Study all you can about it, understand the ideal figure.
With that self portrait, it suffers from draw-every-little-strand syndrome.
Try and see it as a shape of tone and design, Like Loomis does. He explains it clearly in his PDF "The eye of the painter" One page 25 and 115. Look how he simplifies the hair into masses. You can find his books at the reference section's thread "Hunderds of free artbooks"
Also study his compostion, and how you uses plans to get the porpotions right.
Gurney solves it too.
That block in method I mentioned, useing that envelope method, working large to small also helps a lot. Gotta get the general/ideal/basic/principles right first before that "finish".
Edit I see the paintovers link is not working. Try this new link instead.
Last edited by Fitzin; January 19th, 2009 at 03:14 AM.
Thanks a million for your great advice and links Fitzin, I really appreciate it. I checked out all of the links and info except for the paintovers, because the links didn't work. Could you give me another link or be a bit more specific so I can find his paintovers myself? Thanks again man, this is good info.
Tried another self portrait, kinda failed again. Self portraits are pretty damn hard, I'm going to keep on doing them until I get them down really well (could be a few decades ).
Thanks for stopping by.
Damn, the improvement on your facial drawings shows in leaps and bounds. Very nice.
Keep slugging away on those studies. I know they can be mind-numbing and seem both redundant and useless, but they will help you more than you know. Just remember: analyze, analyze, analyze. Think about what you are drawing and why it looks that way, and it will help you a dozen times over.
Try experimenting with line weight a bit too. It will help to make the forms read more clearly.
hey there sebbon!
the thing about self-portraits, I've found -and I havent done one in ages, I'll admit-, is that you have to say something about yourself in them. now all I'm reading is your eyes, which are studiously trying to get your own expression right.
I'd put the paper down for a moment, rediscover your own face. is your chin pointy? where are your eyes in relation to your whole skull?
then, ask yourself what kind of impression you make, or want to. solid and strong? or friendly and/or confused? chose your use of lines to suit your mood, then pick up the paper and draw.
Hey, your good friend , figure painting extremely not wrong. The human body practises some deformation , the trial once corrects the posture sitting , being in the cards is this cause. My English is dispatched very much. Hope that you can know my meaning of.
Sorry for my English.
come one man just keep going! your starting to get it, just keep hammering away at the bridgman and studies and things will start fall fall into place.
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219464 - Portfolio review thread
Post more post more post more! =P
Mock: Thanks for the tips man, really appreciate it. I will look into utilizing line weight more.
Ashess: Very good advice man, I will definitely try that. For now I've put down self portraits just because they were depressing me on how badly I understand my face. I've taken up drawing portraits of other people and out of my imagination before I tackle self portraits again, but I think I'll give it a shot tomorrow.
Jiang: I appreciate the comment and critique, my friend. Unfortunately, I cannot exactly understand what you are saying , though I can tell you are giving good advice. Sorry.
Smarty: Thanks for the comment man, I'll keep at it.
Alright, here's my excuse for not showing up on CA these last two weeks. Starting two weeks ago, I got into cramming for midterm exams, as well as catching up for missed school, redoing homeworks, and getting new homeworks. It was a real bitch, and I didn't have any time for CA. As soon as I got the chance to get back on CA (after that week), my computer decided to die on me. So I could not post in my sketchbook thread, or anywhere on CA really . I just got it back up and running last night (I have no idea what's wrong, it just randomly craps out and me for a few days... I press the ON button but nothing happens, then a couple days later I try again and voila, it works!). So here I am. I kept on drawing the whole time that I was posting, so fear not that my work ethic has dropped. If anything it has increased.
Here are some samples of the stuff I've been doing. The concept designs of the gasmask character and the falconer character are original, without any reference (except for the falconer, I looked up some pictures of medieval falconers to get some ideas, but I didn't directly copy a pose or attire). I'm pretty happy that they look somewhat presentable, because I've tried concepting characters before, and they always looked like the insane scribbles of a 5 year old on LSD, no joke. There are also some figure drawings in here, some life studies, some 60 second posemaniacs, and some Bridgman and photo ref drawing.
Critiques on the concept characters are very much welcomed. I'm obviously having trouble with drawing hands on characters (I have no problems drawing them alone, but as soon as I stick them on a figure, all of my knowledge goes completely out the window) and grounding the feet on the floor plane (how do I figure out a floor plane?).
Edit: Ok I decided to add this in now, now's as good a time as ever. I personally don't have aspirations to be a concept artist. I really love drawing (and I'd sure love to paint) but I went into this as a jumping board for animation and for the creation of a college entrance portfolio to CalArts or Gobelins. I've decided that I want to enter Gobelins in Paris, France... this means I need to work my ass off to get a good portfolio and the skills necessary to pass the entrance exam and beat out over 600 other applicants for one of the 25 positions. I emailed a freshman alumni at Gobelins, and she gave me some info.
To get in, you have to attend an exam with all the other applicants. In the morning you do exercises in perspective, lighting, and other basic drawing principles. Then you do a character animation exam where you must redraw characters from a model sheet in many different poses. This is a very important part of the test. Then the final part of the exam is where you must create a storyboard based off of a synopsis. So basically I gotta learn how to draw characters well, storyboard well, and understand perspective through and through. I also have to create a great portfolio. Here are two examples of Gobelins portfolios.
So I gotta get that good.
I am very willing to put in all the time necessary to get that good, and I've got two years and one month before the exam, so I've plenty of time to prepare. But I need your help guys. What and how should I set up my learning? Should I create a schedule (I'm pretty decent at following a schedule)? If I do, should I clump subjects into weeks, or into seperate days of the week? There are so many possibilities and ideas swirling around in my head, but I don't want to screw this up. The student I emailed told me that it is very rare for anyone to get in straight from high school, but I plan on doing just that. Any and all help and/or guidance is much appreciated. I want this really bad.
Thanks for stopping by, and once again, my apologies for the lateness.
Last edited by cdejong; February 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 AM.
hi sebbon; wow, I'm very excited you've put such a great goal for yourself. and with still 2 years to go, you should have enough time to get the practice in you need for this. it will still be hard to get in with that kind of competition - but I think you'll have a good shot at it.
looking at this school you've picked in Paris, looks like its a very classic drawing education. I would start with 3 things that will be very important for such a school. first and foremost, perspective. try your hand at urban landscape. use pictures if you must. a book about basic perspective is a great idea too. second, related to this, still lives. they will teach you not only about perspective, but about shape and light too. (when drawing still lives, make an ensamble that allows you to direct light as you feel fit. try 1 point light sources, 2 points, etc).
lastly, get into a weekly modeldrawing class. some will tell you this is the most important part -in some ways they are right. but it is my opinion that livedrawing needs to be studded with sounds knowledge of perspective to work.
You WILL get that good, and you WILL get into the school you want to. That's the only way to think of it. No maybe's, no if's. Just work yourself, push yourself, and you will make it. You're doing great with these studies. They're clean and read well. Try playing a little more with line weight, especially at places where the muscles intersect.
I'd love to see more. like the habit of constantly finding, learning and posting.
You should read and look at read other critiques if others don't satisfy you. Like from Gregpro, Elwell and all that. Heck, you can look at my crits in the my previous posts. You can see I post on regardless weither I get a crit or not, I post cause I motivate myself. We may need other member aswell, I have a plan.
Also ask/troll active pros for crits here, I usally pays off.
I agree with mock, Be more carefull with your line weights.
Also with Ashess, Doing landscapes and still lifes can really help with the other.
Argh, don't hide those hands! Hands can look expressive if drawn well, yet amaturish if hidden. Look at reference of anatomy/principle.
I'd love the see more loadsa hours study, try and use them to tackle blocking in. Porportion and delicacy.
Suggested list of books to study you sould like you have some, but here are some more. http://djcbriggs.googlepages.com/the...ashtonartschoo
I love Vanderpool, Lovely pretty faces and planes. Get it while you can.
Burne Hogarth is a fantastic at invention, I know others hate the shit out of him. But I beleive he is just simply drawing the "secret figure". It makes more sense if a combine it with Robert beverly hale and the others. I'm sure Hogarth learned from Bridgeman awswell. (Thats what I've discovered anyway.)
Glenn Vlippu, Kevin Chen, and Mentler all have somthing to learn from Check them out. (Not so sure about Riven Phonix thou, see if your intrested.) I know various other artists...
Sheldon who studied off Glenn and Bridgman >>> http://www.sheldonsartacademy.com/
Doug Jameson, Its had its influences on Mentler. >>> http://www.digitalartform.com/archiv....html#comments
Also look up Richard Scimd for painting, and that preston blair book. Google them.
There it said it all, It took me friggin midnight. We need more members, I have a plan...
Last edited by Fitzin; February 26th, 2009 at 07:11 PM. Reason: Must go to sleep, I'm gonna get punished for staying this late.
Also this is a good book on finding dynamics and form, I like to follow some of its rules. >>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Force-Dynami.../dp/0240808452
You don't have to get them all, These are books I found treading in the snow - I have many more.
Also feel free to try loadsa scupture, It should help understand planes and that, you chould do it in this manner in the amazing blog, Exaggerating plane breaks, helping you see form. >>> http://www.learning-to-see.co.uk/feeling-the-form
Mock also recommends using anatomy books like bridgeman to other books when your right in the action of studying, I'm now suggesting it to you since it helps loads.
(If you've heard this before, shoot me.)
Feel free to ask.
Last edited by Fitzin; March 1st, 2009 at 07:29 PM.
...two years and one month before the exam?
Well that's not so bad.
If you want to know the truth, I actually think it's a possibility for you, if you want it badly enough. Not going to say it isn't possible, anyway. Nothing's impossible. 'Cept maybe...something being just that.
Here's my advice, if you want to know it. This interests me. I'm not a professional. I got paid $100 once to do a logo for some company, but other than that - just a 19 year old kid with a purpose and an agenda. But this sort of thing, is really my type of thing.
First, you are not in the dark. If you feel like you're in the dark and don't know how to start out on this journey of yours, you're wrong. There is always a way - and always another way after that, if you play your cards right.
Second, realizing who and what you are as an individual is just as important as realizing the human figure, or knowing how light is cast on an object. Even realizing those last two things, is only as important as realizing how to pull them off.
And so let's analyze this, for a moment, it might help you out. Oh, thirdly - never be afraid to sit back, and think. Like we're doing right now. In my personal opinion, 60% of the work is done in your head, 30% of the work is putting it in a physical form, and 10% of the work happens by mistake.
Let's take the three things I listed up there:
1 - This can be summed up as self realization and understanding. It is in my personal opinion, extremely important.1.Second, realizing who and what you are as an individual is just as important as 2.realizing the human figure, or knowing how light is cast on an object. Even realizing those last two things, is only as important as 3.realizing how to pull them off.
2 - This can be summed up as studying, and what it is you will be drawing.
3 - This can be summed up as how to go about drawing it.
And now let's reason this some more, we have these three things - which of them is the easiest?
In my opinion, #2. Studying the human figure, anatomy, lighting, perspective - it's just knowledge. Textbook stuff, it exists and we can't do anything about it - it will always be there waiting for you, and there will always be a way to learn it. Some people call it the basics - some people would consider this the most important. I for one disagree, as it relies too heavily on #3. Point being, you shouldn't spend 200 sheets of paper studying the human figure if A: you're not actually retaining or learning anything from it and B: Even with the knowledge, you don't understand how to portray it. Doctors know anatomy, too, but that doesn't make them artists.
Given this, I think it would benefit you most long term to conquer the most difficult of the three first. I'm going to suggest number 3 - "How to go about drawing it". The technique, the little things that people overlook. You can know everything you can about the human body or about how cloth lays over any shape, but if your linework sucks (not saying yours does) you're still not going to have an attractive picture (obviously depending on in what manner you try to portray it.)
And since self realization might be THE most difficult of them, but might require the most amount of time, I'd just let it happen as it happens, or at least let it alone for now.
So let's take a look at the "how", first I'll just suggest - try to keep your lines cleaner. Up top they're precise, confident, and there's a lot fewer of them. Down bottom in the most recent post they're feathery and seemingly without as much confidence or purpose.
I'm going to suggest drawing something from imagination - and trying to do it with very clean lines, a creature that nobody's ever seen before or something of the sort. Don't be afraid to do it confidently, it could help you a lot because you'll be focused more on how you use the lines themselves - largely because you'll be relying on them to give off an idea of your own. With basic human figures, we can all assume what it is whether or not the linework is solid.
Once you have the how-to-potray-it-on-paper thing down, it will be a lot easier to accurately and efficiently learn and retain the information you get from your studies.
That's it for now, I'll try to check back.
Hey guys, here is some of my recent stuff.
ashess: Thank you for the direction and encouragement, I really appreciate it. I hope to make you guys proud
Mock: Thank you for the inspirational words, I will try my very best.
Fitzin: What can I say, the information you hand out is priceless. Thank you for taking so much time to help me out, you give really valuable practical knowledge out willingly, studded with some amazing links.
Two Listen: That's some great philosophy on art and life. I really appreciate you going out of your way to help me out with such an in-depth post, it addressed a lot of good issues for me and helped me take a step back and survey where I'm headed.
Thank you for all of your support guys, I only hope I can return such valuable knowledge back to you all.
I'm glad you're able to take to heart the advice you're given from multiple sources, I get the feeling most people I give very similar advice to wind up wanting to punch me in the mouth almost instantaneously. Go figure.
The latest ones look good - I think you're better at quickly suggesting forms than I am, I've been trying to work on it, though. And that's good - your linework is better, as well. Obviously there's some things here and there that could get a little bit of improvement.
One thing I'm noticing is your skulls - your skulls could do with a bit of work. They should not fit so perfectly in a square at side view, I don't think. It's a bit difficult for me to explain, I might do a paintover for you here at somepoint if you want it. In the meantime, take a look at this thread - it's got some good stuff to take a look at if you haven't seen it before.
Hope that helps illustrate my point a little bit better. Keep at it, - though you seem like you don't need anyone to tell you to keep going, and that's something special.
Nice figures, definitely keep doing those Bridgman's studies. He's been my reference for a long time and I think he's fantastic.
Do some more studies of his work that deals with the masses of the figure and the figure in terms of forms. You seem to be thinking of your figures too much in terms of line, it could really help you to try to visualize them in three dimensions.
Sorry if I'm just repeating what others have said before me, I wasn't able to read through all the posts. You've got a great thread going, though, and I think that you're making progress. Keep it going!
nice start man, your studies getting better and better every next time, so like you find out yourself it's the matter of practice and practice and practice and still practice,all these books will help you a lot or will get you confused if you only copy them without any understanding,it's hard to get all these advices in your head - getting messy, don't you?..so it's good to listen to all these people but you have to remember that you must find out your way, like anybody else here,read books, look how these masters express the human figure, find out why they do that and try to express it on your way, when someone crits you find out what you doing wrong and next time do it better (like you do), think on that why your heads doesn't look right and realistic, look at the loomis method or Hogarth's and make 50-100 heads then you will see is there improvement? just it's all about practice and some rules, don't dive into the character design without necessary knowledge, make a tons of studies and you will find out how the things become easy, one exercise for example go to posemaniacs.com start drawing 60 sec. poses make 50 and try to draw one from your head, then make 100 and try that again, then make 200....same with the heads make 50 dry from head and repeat the process, now when I am thinking for a while this post sounds weird and the truth is I should do these studies too , check algenpfleger thread and look how this guy made kick ass improvement only for a year, check out what studies he made, and start study everything - that's my opinion and that doesn't mean you should listen to me, just that's what I am thinking
so go draw now!
Damn, man. That latest post is just.. leaps and bounds of improvement. Keep it up. Those studies will help more than you can imagine, because later on when you're drawing from imagination or doing life drawing from a model, you will recall things that are burnt into your brain from repeatedly doing those studies.
Hey I just started a while back too ! it's good to see you're studying a lot. Keep at it!