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    Jason Manley's Avatar
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    Minister for the Arts Petition

    I got this from Todd Lockwood today. Thought you guys might find this interesting.



    ........................


    just received this from a friend. In this religion-saturated country, I can't see a
    Secretary of the Arts ever happening or working, but I signed the petition.

    And added as a comment: "And also please oppose the horrible Orphaned Works bill" ...



    ----------------------------



    in case you haven't received this ... please consider signing.



    Dear Friends,

    You may already have received this, but it is so important, I'm passing it along.

    Quincy Jones has started a petition to ask President-Elect Obama to appoint a Secretary
    of the Arts. While many other countries have had Ministers of Art or Culture for
    centuries, The United States has never created such a position. We in the arts need this
    and the country needs the arts--now more than ever. Please take a moment to sign this
    important petition and then pass it on to your friends and colleagues.

    www.petitiononline.com/esnyc/petition.html
    <http://www.petitiononline.com/esnyc/petition.html>
    <http://www.petitiononline.com/esnyc/petition.html>

    Thank you Happy New Year!
    --
    Patricia Blair
    Director, The School of Ballet Chicago
    218 South Wabash Avenue , 3rd Floor
    Chicago , Illinois 60604
    (312) 251-8838
    pblair@balletchicago.org
    www.balletchicago.org <http://www.balletchicago.org/>





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    Thanks for posting that Jason! I've added my name to the list!

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    signed, with pleasure.

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    I would love a Secretary of the Arts position, but I really wouldn't expect it here for a while.

    Signed it.

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    Signed, good sir, signed.

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    Done...

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    what would that job entail? Why do we need a Secretary of the Arts? Is it to keep American culture prevalent in our everyday lives? Wouldn't that create government control over some kind of creativity?

    Just curious before I sign anything

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    Jason, I'm all for it... but the religion comment hurts.

    edit: oh wait... I get it. Its a play on words with "minister," as in "minister" of the arts. Sorry for getting kinda uptight about it.

    Last edited by Peter Coene; January 9th, 2009 at 11:57 PM.
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    Over 32k signatures so far.

    I wonder how that count stacks against other national petitions...
    ...and how important signature number is for something like this.
    ...and how much sway these petitions have.


    Oh well, it's good to feel like part of something I believe in at any rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    Jason, I'm all for it... but the religion comment hurts.
    Yeah, I don't really see too much of a connection between these spheres- that religion comment did seem a bit... gratuitous. As far as I know, religions aren't anti-art (unless it perhaps involves naked people ).

    Last edited by Zirngibism; January 10th, 2009 at 12:31 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirngibism View Post
    Yeah, I don't really see too much of a connection between these spheres- that religion comment did seem a bit... gratuitous. As far as I know, religions aren't anti-art (unless it perhaps involves naked people ).
    Are you kidding? For the most part naked people art survived the rennaissance because religion was paying for it. Go to the Vatican some time, you'll find naked people all over the place!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    Are you kidding? For the most part naked people art survived the rennaissance because religion was paying for it. Go to the Vatican some time, you'll find naked people all over the place!
    Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, and I was mostly kidding about that comment. But I am referring to a general modern religious mentality on the subject. Like some midwest Christian "fundamentalists". Just talk to my mom. I'm still hiding my figure paintings I did at school from her because she thinks they're sinful and kind of like porn...

    So, this aside, do you have any theories as to why someone would think religions would be against a secretary for the arts? Perhaps the notion that artists as a group are too "liberal"? Maybe that there's a correlation between religious people and fiscal conservatives when it comes to government programs involving social issues like the arts?

    Last edited by Zirngibism; January 10th, 2009 at 12:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirngibism View Post
    So, this aside, do you have any theories as to why someone would think religions would be against a secretary for the arts? Perhaps the notion that artists as a group are too "liberal"?
    "Liberal!?" As an artist who happens to be religious I refuse to accept labels... other than "artist."

    ...and "religious."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    Are you kidding? For the most part naked people art survived the rennaissance because religion was paying for it. Go to the Vatican some time, you'll find naked people all over the place!
    Actually, if I remember correctly, Islamic scholars in Egypt were the ones who saved and preserved the bulk of greek culture while Europe went through it's dark ages. The catholic church only deserves credit for finally maturing and not killing people who wanted to learn from the greek masters. Paying the bills is all fine and dandy, but don't forget they were also hindering intellectual growth for a few hundred years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    "Liberal!?" As an artist who happens to be religious I refuse to accept labels... other than "artist."

    ...and "religious."
    Woah, there! You don't have to get defensive on me. I'm on your side here.

    I'm not the one labeling you, I'm speculating (very generally) about others making labels, regardless of how false they may be.

    Last edited by Zirngibism; January 10th, 2009 at 12:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Actually, if I remember correctly, Islamic scholars in Egypt were the ones who saved and preserved the bulk of greek culture while Europe went through it's dark ages. The catholic church only deserves credit for finally maturing and not killing people who wanted to learn from the greek masters. Paying the bills is all fine and dandy, but don't forget they were also hindering intellectual growth for a few hundred years.
    1st) I said "religion" not specifically the Catholic Church

    2nd) You forget that Islam was iconoclastic. They saved the other parts of the culture like science math and non-representational geometric patterns.

    Plus the "hindering of intellectual growth" stuff is a bit blown out of proportion. That was more a result of the degredation and crash of the Western Roman Empire. Without a centralized infrastructure the place broke down and you got the dark ages. The fact that Christianity happened to emerge durring that time makes it more a victim of circumstance. Granted it did lots of other horrible stuff such as hindering other religions and for a while put clothing on all their statues, but they still kept the arts alive in their own way.

    3rd) Lets keep it civil here Blue, I know that you are Buddhist and I would be pissed off to see people saying bad stuff about your religion... granted, since I kind of claim all religions I'd feel like it was an attack on mine as well... I'm not sure where I'm going with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirngibism View Post
    Woah, there! You don't have to get defensive on me. I'm on your side here.

    I'm not the one labeling you, I'm speculating (very generally) about others making labels, regardless of how false they may be.
    That was actually a joke... kind of at my own expence. I guess this stuff doesn't translate well online.

    Last edited by Peter Coene; January 10th, 2009 at 12:43 AM.
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    Some believe the impact of a large meteorite also had something to do with the dark ages, causing stuff like crop failure.

    Interesting stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirngibism View Post
    Some believe the impact of a large meteorite also had something to do with the dark ages, causing stuff like crop failure.

    Interesting stuff
    There was a mini ice age in there, that would sorta make sense...

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    The dark ages weren't that dark at all. Wikipedia basically knows everything.

    About the actual topic, I agree with Equality72521, I need to figure out what this is about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Equality72521 View Post
    what would that job entail? Why do we need a Secretary of the Arts? Is it to keep American culture prevalent in our everyday lives? Wouldn't that create government control over some kind of creativity?

    Just curious before I sign anything
    If it is what I understand it to be then the job is to make sure that art and artists do not get pushed by the wayside. I agree though that there is a chance for excessive govt controll, but that can be avoided if we make sure that we use it as a way to make sure that the government bends to our wishes and not the other way arround.

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    Peter is there ever a thread that you don't start shit?
    Why is this turning into a discussion about fucking religion?

    Sign the damn petition shut up and draw.

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    It amazes me that your country & it's inhabitants, which never had a Ministry of Arts, produced and is producing some of the best art known to man, in many facets (film, "art", illustration, photography, music, etc) . & countries with this kind of government "support" (like mine, which is more religion based than yours, as a fact), are simply forgotten in art history. I really think you guys don't need a Secretary of this type... just produce your goods... and inspire the rest of the world to be better

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    If i was American, I´ll sign it. :p

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    Quote Originally Posted by evildisco View Post
    Peter is there ever a thread that you don't start shit?
    Why is this turning into a discussion about fucking religion?

    Sign the damn petition shut up and draw.
    Jason made it about religion in the first post. I admit, I tend to be a bit defensive; but to be defensive there has to be an attack that you are defending against in the 1st place.

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    There's too many damn monkeys in your brain shooting RPGs at each other...

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    If I were an american I would sign it as well, seeing that we've had a Minister of Culture and arts here in Germany as long as I can think....

    Quote Originally Posted by Equality72521 View Post
    what would that job entail? Why do we need a Secretary of the Arts? Is it to keep American culture prevalent in our everyday lives? Wouldn't that create government control over some kind of creativity?
    No.

    All it does is to have a representative JUST for culture and the arts, not like your represenatative who has 100.000 other things on his minds other then arts....
    The more important question is, why wouldnt you want such a psoition in your country?

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    Because pew pewing is a bigger priority.

    I do agree wholeheartedly, most other countries have that position and it's not a form of government control but rather a way to stimulate culture and art, providing funds, infrastructure and such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evildisco View Post
    There's too many damn monkeys in your brain shooting RPGs at each other...
    Yes, there's a war going on in my brain, thank you for pointing that out.

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    nicolas oh ok, will sign!

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    I didn't even know you didn't have one. We have a minister "of culture and sports", for some reason... But he doesn't have his own ministry, he works in the ministry of education.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolas View Post
    All it does is to have a representative JUST for culture and the arts, not like your represenatative who has 100.000 other things on his minds other then arts....
    The more important question is, why wouldnt you want such a psoition in your country?
    America already has an enormous cultural influence. Many parts of the world are angry at us for imposing our culture on them, even though we don't do that. America is supposed to be multicultural and a lot of people are going to be suspicious of this.

    One of the things I found in favor of it is this. This guy thinks the history of jazz is going to disappear if no secretary of the arts is elected. Maybe I just don't know what's going on but jazz disappearing doesn't seem like a real threat to me. It's a great idea to get more funding for arts education, but America already has the national endowment for the arts.

    Peter, I'm not saying all religious people are this nutty, but if you want to understand why some people consider religion an enemy of the arts look at what the american family association did.
    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Congress granted the NEA an annual funding of between US$160 and US$180 million from the mid-1980s to the mid-1990s. In 1996, Congress cut the NEA funding to US$99.5 million as a result of pressure from conservative groups, including the American Family Association, who criticized the agency for using tax dollars to fund highly controversial artists such as Robert Clark Young, Barbara Degenevieve, Andres Serrano, Robert Mapplethorpe, and the so-called "NEA Four." Since 1996, the NEA has partially rebounded with a 2004 budget of US$121 million.[1] For FY 2008, the budget is US$144.7 million.[1]
    Oh yeah and, America also has the national endowment for the humanities. Both of these organizations are federally funded and their directors are appointed by the president. I guess a secretary of culture would bring these two groups together or something?

    Last edited by •Lindsay•; January 10th, 2009 at 11:15 AM.
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