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Thread: This goes out to all the innocents in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict

  1. #1
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    This goes out to all the innocents in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict

    After thousands of rockets and mortars fired into Israel over the last few years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rocket_attacks and many related skirmishes, the inevitable "last straw" has come and Israel is retaliating in a more proactive way to remove the constant terrorizing threat. Our hearts go out to all the Palestinian innocents who have been killed in these incursions as well as those who are being used cynically by Hamas as human shields (in an attempt to delegitimize the Israeli counter-attacks on a political level through the media). Of course, our hearts also go out to all those wounded and killed and terrorized in Israel by the years of indiscriminate rocket and mortar fire and suicide bombings coming over the border at them. One hopes that a two state solution will be found where Israeli and Palestinians can live side by side in viable states without religious zealotry rearing its ugly head.
    At least Icarus tried!


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  4. #2
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    Definitely not a black and white situation.
    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."

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    The situation is bad. I got friends in the military, and i just hope this nightmare will end.
    I'm glad to see that people manage to stay objective to this sensitive matter.
    I hope that one day we will manage to acheive peace.

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    I was gonna talk about politics, but i thought, fuckit. Its not gonna enlighten anyone, since its obvious people aren't open to change their mind about what they already think is the truth.

    I'm just gonna send out my sympathies to every innocent person in this conflict, and i hope for the best for my friends in all three sides of the conflict.

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    may we all find peace.

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    The situation is deplorable. No other words describe it. And noone can claim innocence. Not Palestine, not Israel, not the U.S. not Europe not Egypt nor the middle east.

    All people hope for peace... while at the same time their governments prepare for war. And yet when it comes down to it, as majorities, the people condone it, even though they wish for peace... otherwise it would not be happening.

    Kev, you yourself said your heart goes out to all the innocents, and yet you justify the killing somehow... What is wrong with us all? You aren't alone in this doublethink, almost all people do it, though they may deplore war and killing they justify it... somehow. THAT is the problem. THAT is why the U.S. builds and practically gives weapons away. THAT is why Hamas fires rockets indiscriminately not knowing or caring who they hurt. THAT is why Israel ghettoizes it's undesirables and then bombs them into submission with cheap (free?) and massive U.S. weapons. Because violence is rationalized and justified. even though there is no rational or justification for it.

    If people did not accept violence as a strategy then governments would not be able to get away with it. Government is insanity. Government has no conscience or morals... but people do... supposedly. Though you would never know it by looking at the world.

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    kev, you attend the Zionist Congress this year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chingwa View Post
    The situation is deplorable. No other words describe it. And noone can claim innocence. Not Palestine, not Israel, not the U.S. not Europe not Egypt nor the middle east.

    All people hope for peace... while at the same time their governments prepare for war. And yet when it comes down to it, as majorities, the people condone it, even though they wish for peace... otherwise it would not be happening.

    Kev, you yourself said your heart goes out to all the innocents, and yet you justify the killing somehow... What is wrong with us all? You aren't alone in this doublethink, almost all people do it, though they may deplore war and killing they justify it... somehow. THAT is the problem. THAT is why the U.S. builds and practically gives weapons away. THAT is why Hamas fires rockets indiscriminately not knowing or caring who they hurt. THAT is why Israel ghettoizes it's undesirables and then bombs them into submission with cheap (free?) and massive U.S. weapons. Because violence is rationalized and justified. even though there is no rational or justification for it.

    If people did not accept violence as a strategy then governments would not be able to get away with it. Government is insanity. Government has no conscience or morals... but people do... supposedly. Though you would never know it by looking at the world.
    There are times for diplomacy, and there are times for action. How much more should the Israeli government allow their people to be made victims of Hamas attacks, and later criminalized by the MSM - simply for living their lives.

    Perhaps it was finding old photos of my squad mates during my IA tour, or taking a longer look at the scars. But I've come to the "re"-realization that the threat needs to be taken care of. There are still areas I would prefer that we simply leave alone, but perhaps it has been that we have not been involved enough. After taking the time to seriously consider my own memories, world events, gains and losses. I have to say I personally wouldn't concede simply because I had taken so many blows.

    Conscience and morals have their place, but so do logic and reason.

    Love with your heart, use your head for everything else.

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    hahaha fuck Zionism, fuck Israel.
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    The two state solution will bring peace. Anyone who advocates for something other than that is acting immorally by encouraging this neverending conflict to continue, which means more and more innocents on both sides will die. Forget whose land is what from something you read from one side or the other and when somebody did this or that, because all that stuff is water under the bridge. History cannot be untangled, the Ottoman empire is dust, the British Empire is dust... All those around the map table in world war one... they're dust. The signatories to all the mandates... they're dust. All the presidents and politicians in the UN in 1948... they're dust. The original Zionists of the 1800s... they're dust. The muftis who started the riots in the 1920s... they're dust. Arafat... dust. Sharon... dust. Nasser... dust. Dayan... dust. Begin... dust.

    The only way forward, in my opinion, is to generate political force for the two state solution and against the use of old political grievances to perpetuate hatred and war.
    Last edited by kev ferrara; January 5th, 2009 at 11:06 AM.
    At least Icarus tried!


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    The two state solution shouldn't have existed in the first place, but unfortunately, yes it is the best solution, in light of recent events. 50/50, like it was meant to be in the first place. Israel and America however are above international law, they can commit war crimes, carry out illegal wars, do as much illegal boloni as it wants to, without being held account for any of it.

    Israel doesn't want to be tried in the Hague for war crimes because it knows it would lose (the Inernational world has to ask Israel if it wants to go to court or not when it commits crimes, again, not like your average joe)

    Israel is using chemical weapons that kill you, and if they don't they will give you risk of cancer. Depleted Uranium has been found in the bodies of the injured and the dead.

    Another crime, but you won't se this told on BBC, Sky, CNN... and definitely not Fox News! Rupert Murdoch has his thumb on pretty much most of the news you hear, to keep you stupid.

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