Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 122
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    1,496
    Thanks
    230
    Thanked 491 Times in 271 Posts

    This goes out to the Palestenian Famillies.

    With over 200 civilians already counted amongst the dead, this looks like another one sided conflict. Our prayers go out to you.


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Brashen For This Useful Post:


  4. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    1,679
    Thanks
    699
    Thanked 596 Times in 283 Posts
    While I agree there are better ways to handle this horrible situation, I'm not sure
    I blame Israel for losing its temper when they are being the subject of almost daily rocket attacks from an organization that states that one of its purposes is to destroy Israel.

    Where were your thoughts for the injured when they were from the Israeli side?
    Last edited by Craig D; December 29th, 2008 at 02:52 PM.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Craig D For This Useful Post:


  6. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Limbo
    Posts
    625
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 24 Times in 13 Posts
    They all just need to get over it. It is ridiculous for those people to fight over variations of the same religion, and nobody ever gets anywhere with it. Fighting over sand like children at a beach.
    ----------------------------------------
    Sans la colère. Sans la haine. Et sans la pitié.

    I always find myself instinctively arrayed on the side of the barbarian, against the powers of organized civilization. -- Robert E. Howard

    Writer, illustrator and artist.

  7. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,232
    Thanks
    679
    Thanked 863 Times in 364 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by bat View Post
    They all just need to get over it.
    Thank you, you made me laugh.
    Sigh.

  8. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kansas city, MO
    Posts
    1,167
    Thanks
    1,422
    Thanked 867 Times in 333 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig D View Post
    While I agree there are better ways to handle this horrible situation, I'm not sure
    I blame Israel for losing its temper when they are being the subject of almost daily rocket attacks from an organization that states that one of its purposes is to destroy Israel.

    Where were your thoughts for the injured when they were from the Israeli side?
    In 1947, the United Nations approved the partition of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab.[9] On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel declared independence and this was followed by a war with the surrounding Arab states, which refused to accept the plan. The Israelis were subsequently victorious in a series of wars confirming their independence and expanding the borders of the Jewish state beyond those in the UN Partition Plan. Since then, Israel has been in conflict with many of the neighboring Arab countries, resulting in several major wars and decades of violence that continue to this day...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

    The Israelis have been the aggressors since the beginning. The Palestinians have been occupied and then thrown out basically. Seems like the Palestinians are the ones who have the right to "lose their temper". What's truly sad is that it's the civilians on both sides who really suffer the consequences from the decisions of these power hungry individuals.

  9. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Jason Ross For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    122
    Thanks
    451
    Thanked 678 Times in 186 Posts
    Edit: My comment was based on very early reports......read on!

    Either way, everyone loses. These guys will be fighting for many more decades.
    Last edited by James Kei; December 30th, 2008 at 05:19 PM.

  11. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Next to Black Pyramid
    Posts
    865
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 84 Times in 46 Posts
    we should bomb the terrorist state of israel. That really shouldnt even exist anyways.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Blahm For This Useful Post:


  13. #8
    Guest
    Peace will never be found when one side holds all the cards. This is a terrible thing to say but until both sides suffer enough only then will the people through powers to be look for a solution.

    Ps.
    the Hamas started off by launching missiles into Israeli school playgrounds. Killing many children.
    what?

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,961
    Thanks
    1,343
    Thanked 1,308 Times in 307 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Blahm View Post
    we should bomb the terrorist state of israel. That really shouldnt even exist anyways.
    Yeah. It's not like there are any families or regular folks just looking to get by and trying live whatever peaceful existence they can over there. Yup. Lob a few more bombs over there. Everyone's sure to be just fine once it's all 'even-steven.'

  15. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to N D Hill For This Useful Post:


  16. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Limbo
    Posts
    625
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 24 Times in 13 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by S.M View Post
    Thank you, you made me laugh.
    Sigh.

    There is nothing to sigh about. They worship the same deity and yet over variations they are bombing and killing each for what? A peaceful god? Seriously, the Middle-Eastern religions need to sort themselves out before snapping at anyone else. Their basic religious texts start out the same and they war over the differences.
    ----------------------------------------
    Sans la colère. Sans la haine. Et sans la pitié.

    I always find myself instinctively arrayed on the side of the barbarian, against the powers of organized civilization. -- Robert E. Howard

    Writer, illustrator and artist.

  17. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Sacramento and Los Angeles
    Posts
    988
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 165 Times in 61 Posts
    Both sides are fucking pricks. All agressors on both sides should be behind bars for war crimes.

    (I guess the Hamas have killed... what... 2? Israelis with their rockets. The israelis kill over 300?? yea...)

    But yes, all of them should burn in hell.

  18. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    110
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by bat View Post
    There is nothing to sigh about. They worship the same deity and yet over variations they are bombing and killing each for what? A peaceful god? Seriously, the Middle-Eastern religions need to sort themselves out before snapping at anyone else. Their basic religious texts start out the same and they war over the differences.
    As much as we would like to flatter ourselves and say its all about religion its just the tribal situations. Our territory, their territory whatever. Their version of 'God' as u say it is just a scapegoat for us ever so learned westerners to assume the world. Seems like every time there is almost a peaceful juncture in their relationship something happens, dating way back. In a way Clintons sex scandal worked out for the bombing of Palestine's yet no one noticed cuz someone got a Blow job.

    Thoughts for all who've died and have been hurt.

  19. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kansas city, MO
    Posts
    1,167
    Thanks
    1,422
    Thanked 867 Times in 333 Posts
    A few clips about the attacks and about Israel.






  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Jason Ross For This Useful Post:


  21. #14
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    440
    Thanks
    323
    Thanked 184 Times in 106 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Blahm View Post
    we should bomb the terrorist state of israel. That really shouldnt even exist anyways.
    People can argue all day about whether it should exists or not. If you want to go that route, the same could be said for most of the civilized world(US, UK, and Canada just to name a few). While I`m not a fan of some Israeli policies, or even our own for that matter; I`m not going to make victims out of monsters.

    I feel we should leave this whole mess alone. Maybe even try to contain it. I used to be Neocon, and can understand the agendas behind our involvement in the region. Beyond insuring none of them get a hold of Ballistic Missile technologies; it just isn`t worth it.
    Unless we're ready to face conflict after conflict.

    Your bleeding heart (you and your other terrorist sympathizing friends)is merely a facade for your own hate. You constantly criticize the wars, make irrational conclusions about military movements, but have no problem with bombing Israel and killing millions that live there. Nor do you have a problem with the effects that would have on our soldiers.

    Oh, lemme guess. All those Israelis are "illuminati", right?
    Last edited by GhostValkyrie; December 30th, 2008 at 04:47 AM. Reason: grammar

  22. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GhostValkyrie For This Useful Post:


  23. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The magical Kingdom.... of Fife
    Posts
    4,468
    Thanks
    1,135
    Thanked 1,584 Times in 1,007 Posts
    It is a great pity that we can't just lock the leaders on both sides into the same room, and make sure that members of their families are conscripted into the armies on the opposite sides to their own nationality; I have the feeling that 90% of wars would end before they started if that was a possibility.

    But it's not, and internet insults won't help, either.......

  24. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,169
    Thanks
    733
    Thanked 591 Times in 314 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by James Kei View Post
    After a long cease-fire, the Hamas started off by launching missiles into Israeli school playgrounds. Killing many children.
    Israel responded by targeting the Hamas military buildings, and the bulk of the casualties have been military and political.
    "According to the Israelis, 30 rockets and 30 mortars have been fired since Tuesday night alone.
    One landed close to a children's playground but did not result in injuries. " -BBC News

    "The UN says at least 62 of the Palestinians killed so far have been women and children. " - BBC News

    At the time of this article, the reported death toll for the Palestinians was 320. Note that the 62 deaths do not include adult male civilians.

    According to ABC News, Gaza is roughly the size of Washington D.C., with 3 times the population. Considering this, the percentage of civilians in that death toll is probably higher than what is currently reported by the UN.

    Israel targeted a university in Gaza that allegedly was used to create some of the materials for the missiles used by Hamas. Not all of Israel's targets can efficiently take out Hamas while not harming civilians in the process.

    The real problem is that both sides act (or at least believe that they act) with their own best interest in mind. Sadly, this does not correlate with simultaneously keeping the best interest of both parties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Ross View Post
    The Israelis have been the aggressors since the beginning. The Palestinians have been occupied and then thrown out basically. Seems like the Palestinians are the ones who have the right to "lose their temper".
    Problem is this type of rhetoric is not at all conducive to the peace process (pronounced: hypothetical peace process). Blame shifting is worthless because the past is history. Ideally, both sides would adopt a more progressive mindset, seeing that any action taken by any side can easily be seen as "retaliatory".
    Last edited by Hexokinase; December 30th, 2008 at 01:38 AM.

  25. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    with Dagon
    Posts
    1,016
    Thanks
    167
    Thanked 473 Times in 187 Posts
    An idea that I'm confused isn't understood on a larger level is that negative reinforcement doesn't really do anything but breed resentment. In order for Israel to be truly effective in what they are doing they will have to kill everyone related to everyone they've killed, and everyone related to them, and so on...if they really expect their strategy of bombing civilian centers that may or may not contain "terrorist" operation centers, and excusing the civilian casualties as "collateral damage" the only logical end is genocide. The killing of civilians on either side is just as grievous. There is no difference between a mad Hamas radical blowing himself and a bus full of Israelis on their way to the mall up, and an Israeli aircraft firing missiles into a building that contains an office that was linked to a bomb making operation and ignoring the fact that the rest of the building was full of people that may have been completely unaware of said operations.

    With that, I'm saying that at this point it really is both sides biting each other...it's just that one side has no teeth and is in a corner, and the other side has an entire trained pack of German Shepards. The interesting thing about violence is that if one side refuses to capitulate, it forces the other to escalate and eventually loose any kind of assumed moral high ground. So while we valorize the ideal of "never giving up" and fighting to the last man...those ideals actually encourage more violence on the part of the aggressors. The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor under the assumption that the Unite States would be so shamed by the defeat that they would just bow out in shame. A miscalculation based on cultural misunderstanding. Assuming that the Arab population, a group historically renowned for being proud AND belligerent is going fold to crippling military defeats is another such miscalculation.

    The end of pacifism is when someone is willing to kill...the end of militarism is when someone is not afraid to die.

    I'm not sure where I'm going with this honestly, just to point out that a cycle is being perpetuated. A cycle that CANNOT be broken with violence, from either side.
    Ia Ia Cthulhu Fthagn

    The Sketchbook Lives AGAIN!

    Darkergreen, My environment, and concept art portfolio

    "Its all Fish-Men in the end anyway" -Sara, my wife

    "Whenever one finds oneself inclined to bitterness, it is a sign of emotional failure."
    Bertrand Russell

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Cthogua For This Useful Post:


  27. #18
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    440
    Thanks
    323
    Thanked 184 Times in 106 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by alesoun View Post
    It is a great pity that we can't just lock the leaders on both sides into the same room, and make sure that members of their families are conscripted into the armies on the opposite sides to their own nationality; I have the feeling that 90% of wars would end before they started if that was a possibility.

    But it's not, and internet insults won't help, either.......
    Hard to do when leaders on one side hide behind a strong lobby and weapons manufacturers, and the others are walking around the street wearing towels and bedsheets while holding school children(many times from their own race/religion/ethinicity, whatever they want to be it seems) as "meat shields".

    This is why I think the US shouldn't decide Israeli policy so much. We barely even understand their concerns or the irrationality of middle eastern politics, even after the crippling blow that was 9/11.

    Until American soldiers are forced to walk children to school, armed to the teeth, everyday and protect them from rocket fire and car bombs in the suburbs; We won't get it. Nor will we understand Palestine until we're unable to defend ourselves from having a group of foreigners partition our own country for the safety of a nearly extinct ethnicity, at the hands of a powerful world body.

    Then again; We would get over it after some time. While there would be discontent for sometime, America wouldn't really need to be partitioned off. If we were in such bad shape that the UN could do that. We'd likely welcome it generally. Less jobs would be shipped overseas.

  28. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,622
    Thanks
    649
    Thanked 819 Times in 305 Posts
    The suicide bombings that's been going is in no way defensable, and just the thought makes me foam. Especially since it seems more and more of that kind of acts are being done by very young people and/or people that in other ways has no real defense themselves against people talking them into it and recruiting them.

    On the other hand, the acts of the Israel state has been total outrageous the last years. There is very few states I look upon with more contempt than Israel when it comes to their crusade against Palestine. A lot of times using the very same tactics against the Palestinians that has been used against jews throughout history.

    The current death toll was before tonight between 326 and 364 dead in Palestine, 4 -four- dead in Israel. Tonight another ten got killed in Palestine, about fourty wounded. The wounded are between 700 and 1600 in Palestine - nobody really knows- and 20 -twenty- in Israel.

    The places bombed in Palestine does indeed include an university and several living areas. Whole families that has nothing to do with it are almost wiped out. The toll of dead and wounded children has been growing steadily. This on top of the segregation wall that Israel has been maintaining - where people die because they can't even get to hospital or proper treatment for serious illnesses - even when scheduled in Egypt or Israel itself.

    There are extremists on both sides that I will in no way defend, but this is -and has been for a long time- again a show of power from Israels side that is absolutely horrifying and shows they will not learn from their own history, recent or older. The acts performed by Palestinians is the rouge extremist person or group, the acts of Israel is the acts of a state, a government, a country. Most countries and states has told Israel that they do not support this and in a lot of cases is totally against it - excluding US, of course.

    The victims here are not "suicide bombers" or "terrorists", it's civilians. Like in every frigging war out there. It's ALWAYS the civilians.

    Since it happens every fucking time Israel does something, having contempt for Israel has nothing to do with religion - and having contempt for extreme Palestinian groupings or terrorists has nothing to do with religion. Jews or muslims, I couldn't care less which religion, it's the state and the leaders I am critizing. Every time something happens, it seems that Israel hopes that the critics and the rest of the world will confuse the war, the expanding and whatnot with the religious aspect. There is no religious aspect. It's humans. Civilians. Nothing else. That there is holy sites for all religions the people partaking in this conflict around cannot excuse the actions of a government on either side.

    This is, and has since the state of Israel got the land and launched war to expand, been a hopeless situation. But I have to say, that the "they did, we did" is hopeless retoric. The only way there can ever be peace down there is when everyone stops thinking about people has done before, and starts to think from scratch.

    I had hopes the last couple of years, because of the elections, and also earlier this year when the Israelic government was going to regroup, but it seems it was all futile. When Israel also started to throw out the illegal settlers that was on Palestinian side, I was in fact very encouraged, as that's been one of the main problems, and the settlers has made the conflict more and more sour.

    There's a ton of good people in both Israel and Palestine that's been working to get people get along and show each other and the rest of the world the real situation down there. I hope they don't give up after this is over again.
    "The fact that no one understands you doesn't make you an artist"

    Sork's SB - Crits appreciated - not getting updated atm
    Blog
    Facebook, please send me a message about your username

  29. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sorknes For This Useful Post:


  30. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,622
    Thanks
    649
    Thanked 819 Times in 305 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanS View Post

    None of you have any idea what you're talking about.

    I am talking about innocent people that gets killed on both sides. That is not excusable on any level. In any war or any conflict.
    "The fact that no one understands you doesn't make you an artist"

    Sork's SB - Crits appreciated - not getting updated atm
    Blog
    Facebook, please send me a message about your username

  31. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sorknes For This Useful Post:


  32. #21
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Gothenburg, Sweden
    Posts
    2,256
    Thanks
    304
    Thanked 525 Times in 365 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanS View Post
    I'm an American citizen who's been living in Israel for the past ten years now.

    None of you have any idea what you're talking about.
    What confuses me the most is that every faction involved in this conflict drags as much media-attention as they can get yet when we (the rest of the world) are making comments we are told to shut up because we don't know anything. Right.

    The only thing that worries me is that Israel can call on it's allies from the NATO if they see themselves on the brink of destruction, dragging europe and north-america into their nationalistic conflict.

    So go Israel, I guess.

  33. #22
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    4,047
    Thanks
    644
    Thanked 1,274 Times in 408 Posts
    JonathanS, feel free to enlighten us isntead of calling people ignorant.

  34. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Slash For This Useful Post:


  35. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    1,496
    Thanks
    230
    Thanked 491 Times in 271 Posts
    I've been watching this thread evolve and have kept my peace with a lot of what people are saying.

    I'm Lebanese and the fact of the matter is that Israel to me is an enemy state. I'm not going to preach anything here because most if not all of you know what Israel perpetrated against my country in 2006. It's got nothing to do with religion or racial differences as Sorkness stated (I'm Catholic), it's the contempt of the Israeli government for civilian life that makes my blood boil whether it be on their side or the others. Do you think they care about the Israeli civilians that get hurt? No they don't. Do you they care if they get killed? No they don't. Their people are their to give them a reason for doing what they do. A Scapegoat if you will for the atrocities they commit.

    But I'm very interested in what JonathanS has to say.

  36. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Brashen For This Useful Post:


  37. #24
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,233
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 849 Times in 457 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by bat View Post
    There is nothing to sigh about. They worship the same deity and yet over variations they are bombing and killing each for what? A peaceful god? Seriously, the Middle-Eastern religions need to sort themselves out before snapping at anyone else. Their basic religious texts start out the same and they war over the differences.
    Emphasis added by me, because you make it sound like the other religions are not as bad. It's not like France always treated their huguenots very well or that puritans didn't flee England, heck, even different kinds of CATHOLICS used to kill each other for debates on wording...

  38. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    651
    Thanks
    148
    Thanked 297 Times in 201 Posts
    Qitsune, Don't all of those have their root in a Middle-Eastern religion? Perhaps pre-Christian Northern Europe would make a better example.

    bat, Do you think that they are fighting over religion or are they using religion to provide a context/pretext to the acquisition and maintenance of resources?

  39. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    4,193
    Thanks
    5,154
    Thanked 2,053 Times in 1,109 Posts
    1. George Bush Jr. tanked the Middle East peace process.
    2. Arafat and Sharon should've been locked in a room and not let out till agreement be made. Now Arafat's dead and there's no one to replace him.
    3. Anyone who would live in Israel or Palestine must care more about ideology than their own lives or the lives of their children. I just don't get it.
    4. It seems there will be endless conflict between these neighbors because neither side actually cares about peace. If both sides really wanted peace, there would be peace.
    5. The main goal now needs to be to get both sides at the table, and not to leave till progress is made.

  40. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    837
    Thanks
    442
    Thanked 355 Times in 187 Posts
    guys guys guys...

    I'm lebanese (catholic by birth too) and i must say Brashen spoke my mind; to us THE STATE OF ISRAEL is an enemy state.the government. its policies. I could never agree with it the same way i can never condone the methods the Hamas use. but let us be rational here for a second; how desperate and abandoned do you have to be to resort to suicide bombing? i am not justifying it, oh no, we've seen enough of this shit here, but seriously. Palestinis throw their rocks and suicide bomb, and yet they are not going to go away. this is their land. no matter what you say, their land was promised to the zionists (not jews. there is a very important distinction to be made here. the way i see it (and hope for it) all israelis arent necessarily zionists either. zionism is a terrible doctrine, built (from my simple readings on the matter, i dont pretend to know everything) on the idea of "purifying the land".)

    ON the OTHER HAND, what do you tell 3rd generation israelis who've been born and raised there? "go the fuck home"? they are home. what to do? the whole situation is just fucked up. And although this is an assymetrical war, (and believe me it is; 2006, I've seen it with my own 2 eyes, if Israel unleashes full force it can obliterate us all. easily.) it also is A POINTLESS ONE.

    it's obvious by now that neither camp can obliterate the other.
    I cannot stand for a zionist state, and i dont want an israeli embassy in lebanon as long as the reigning party is zionist, I'm truly sorry. But I want this to end. Sork is right, no matter who is right or wrong (and i really dont want to go into that right now since no1 wil take me seriously because im sorta in the middle of it and "biased") civilians are dying, and killing civilians on both sides will only fester more hate. And if you really believe that's the way to go, well, be my guest. try to kill all palestinis, try to bring down Israel.

    im so angry im shaking. but i tried to stay rational while typing this. the thread was meant to send a prayer to the hundreds of civilians dying and yes i will say it reluctantly, on both sides and the need to argue derailed it. im guilty of this too. I'm sorry.

    Rest in peace, all of you. you really died in vain.

  41. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to petitemistress For This Useful Post:


  42. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,883
    Thanks
    752
    Thanked 3,153 Times in 1,066 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by tsujni View Post
    Qitsune, Don't all of those have their root in a Middle-Eastern religion? Perhaps pre-Christian Northern Europe would make a better example.
    As far as I know Pre-Christian Nothern Europe was Pagan. Celts, Goths, Visigoths, etc. They had their own gods and rituals. Rome was Pagan for a good while and there were conflicts with the Hebrews. All the while most Midde Eastern people were still Pagans too. Then Christianity came center stage and spread through Europe by way of Romans. A bit later Islam came to be and spread though the Near and Middle East.

    Theres more to it than that but I would have to get out the history books and do some internet research.
    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."

  43. The Following User Says Thank You to s.ketch For This Useful Post:


  44. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,221
    Thanks
    114
    Thanked 96 Times in 67 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by aesir View Post
    Both sides are fucking pricks. All agressors on both sides should be behind bars for war crimes.

    (I guess the Hamas have killed... what... 2? Israelis with their rockets. The israelis kill over 300?? yea...)

    But yes, all of them should burn in hell.
    Agreed, I'm not suprised at the lop sided body count though. It's tanks and Jets vs. 120mm bottle rockets. The problem is the "who shot first" facts have been muddled to the point already that we will probably never know the truth. All I'm saying, is that the underdog isn't always the one fighting for a good cause. Niether are in my opinion...

    Tactically, I think Hamas have been radically idiotic enough as it is. Seizing control of the territory and borders. Surrounded by countries that won't deal with them. Ex. Egypt. While also having no control over imports of essential goods and having minimal military capabilities in comparison with the "enemy" they are attacking. Way to make everyone suffer....over religion of all things. I'm not taking a side, I'm taking myself and my time with me somewhere else...

    I just hope that Israel puts the temp. cease fire into effect and Hamas isn't stupid enough to continue attacks...

  45. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    651
    Thanks
    148
    Thanked 297 Times in 201 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckWeisel View Post
    As far as I know Pre-Christian Nothern Europe was Pagan. Celts, Goths, Visigoths, etc. They had their own gods and rituals. Rome was Pagan for a good while and there were conflicts with the Hebrews. All the while most Midde Eastern people were still Pagans too. Then Christianity came center stage and spread through Europe by way of Romans. A bit later Islam came to be and spread though the Near and Middle East.

    Theres more to it than that but I would have to get out the history books and do some internet research.
    I don't disagree. My point was to recast the parallel between Middle Eastern religions and Pagan Northern Europe simply to cut off the counter argument that Christian Europe "inherited" its aggressive posture from its Middle Eastern origins.

  46. The Following User Says Thank You to tsujni For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.