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  1. #91
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    Unhappy Not gonna happen (maybe)

    Since the 110th Congress has adjourned, and since this bill wasn't passed, doesn't that mean that it cannot be passed? I don't think it can. But who knows? Maybe it will come up again under a new name when the 111th Congress gets rolling.

    That's if they find time for it in between bailing out poorly-run corporations... Oh that's right, Congress doesn't need to vote on that because Hank Paulson just gives the money out as he sees fit. BONUS QUESTION for Americans: Is any of this constitutional?

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  3. #92
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    Would it be ok if I used the search form to set up a proper RSS feed of the most recent images added to concept art on a day by day basis?

    If you say 'yes' would you also be willing to set up a bare bones version of the search page with just the search form and the resulting images? No tables or any other unnecessary html. That makes it easier to extract just the images to turn into an rss feed and prevents the rss feed generating code from breaking because of any future redesign of the site's layout.

    Do you plan on making any changes to the search form fields /api interface anytime soon?

    Also, I don't see any 'form images' text tabs anywhere.

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  4. #93
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    Thank You for such a great initiative!

    I am just curious how it looks like from a legal standpoint, is CA's registry meeting all expectations given by US government.

    What if they will raise an institution similar to The United States Patent and Trademark Office (PTO or USPTO) as the only legal registry? :/

    Hope that everything will be all right, thanks again and good luck!

    Szymon Urban - portfolio http://www.szymonurban.com/ | sketchbook
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  5. #94
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    thanks for doing this, it should be immensely helpful for all the artists

    My Website

    My Blog

    Give me some words I can dance to, and a melody that rhymes.
    ~Jimmy Buffett
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  6. #95
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    Cant thank you guys enough for doing this, many many thanks indeed.

    Just wondering how do we get our work onto the database?

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  7. #96
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    iam new here and this is my 1st post. but i like what i see so far. this is a really cool site.

    larry;]

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  8. #97
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    With the world so ridden with selfish greediness it's a breath of fresh air to find someone who will make something for someone else, without asking for anything in return. It's still not too late to believe in people!

    A big BRAVO for MassiveBlack and THANK YOU!

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  9. #98
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    Holy shit, holy shit, holy shit!

    Jason, you talked last Jan. about this and other bigs things happening on your end and I'm really stoked to see this come to fruition!
    Other than supporting CA through the downloads and workshops is there anything else we can do to keep this truckin along?

    Great work to everyone involved and thanks again! This is why I love this community and have found CA to be unparalleled in its resources and aid to the artists out here!

    Now to do some search'n...............

    ...a perpetual plan for discovery days,where everyone can take part in "purposeless play".
    My Sketch 'em up book!!
    My Blog/portfolio site- purposelessplay.com/blog
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  11. #99
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    Thanks!!!!

    CA ROCKS!!!!

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  12. #100
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    I want your babies. All of you. I want a CA baby.

    Bloody brilliant. CA make my belly happy.

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  13. #101
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    Incorrect about the bill

    Jason,
    Not to deride your wonderful you've done with conceptart.org, but I have to wonder if you have even read the Bill?
    Link:
    http://www.publicknowledge.org/pdf/ow-act-2006.pdf

    Look at section B(starts pg.3 ln1). It says the being register with the copyright office does count.

    This is a good bill, and makes it easier to protect yourself.

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  14. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by SzU View Post
    Thank You for such a great initiative!

    I am just curious how it looks like from a legal standpoint, is CA's registry meeting all expectations given by US government.

    What if they will raise an institution similar to The United States Patent and Trademark Office (PTO or USPTO) as the only legal registry? :/

    Hope that everything will be all right, thanks again and good luck!
    Read the bill:
    http://www.publicknowledge.org/pdf/ow-act-2006.pdf

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  15. #103
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    There is a reason some of us are artists and not lawyers or politicians.

    Is there someone that can actually translate the legalese accurately and fully?


    Furthermore, if you are basing your opinion that it is a 'good bill' solely on the fact that the copyright office does count, I am not comforted.

    Some of us still cannot afford to pay to register every one of our works.


    The question I would like to know is whether or not posting the work through Jason's system would work, as was asked before.

    Please don't tell me to read the thing - I tried, and suppose I'm just too A.D.D. to be able to focus/understand it.

    Kudos to Jason and conceptart.org, in any case!!!

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  16. #104
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    Many, many thanks for generating this registry Jason

    Let's all hope this goes a long way to screwing with their intentions

    Thanks again!

    Chris

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  17. #105
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGuy View Post
    Wow so much for being represented by our government... The fact that so many emails and letters were ignored is really disturbing. I sent an email expressing my concerns about the Bill too and got the same kind of automated response.
    The media needs to hear more about this as taxation without adequate representation for artists and any other angle we can think of .Let's make as much noise as we can about it until people start listening.

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  18. #106
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    And thank you so much CA! What a great idea! I haven't been here long but I keep loving this place more and more all the time ! Keep up the great work!

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  19. #107
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Erishaham View Post
    . BONUS QUESTION for Americans: Is any of this constitutional?
    Exactly what iwas thinking ; there must be a law somewhere that would negate such a stupid bill.

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  20. #108
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    Wow.. just .. wow. Thanks so much for setting this all up. I know Im not the greatest of artists, but I aspire to be among them. And many of them are here. Just one more thing for all of us to be thankful for here.

    *New Sketchbook* Come stop by :3

    *SKETCHBOOK*(old)


    I am currently looking for a mentor to help me improve my sketch book. Either that or lots of crits and suggestions to help me improve my skills.
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  21. #109
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    The brouhaha is not about whether or not there is any way to register your work. There are already ways to do that. The problem is actually a matter of economics. If you have to pay $40 a pop to register each drawing (and wait about six months for your registration certificate) before you can safely post the drawing on the internet, then people will stop posting their works on the internet. Not everybody has a lot of money or time for that.

    It is correct that, if you can afford to register each work with the Copyright Office, then that is the way to go. Registration with the Copyright Office is a prerequisite to filing a Copyright Infringement lawsuit in the U.S., whether or not you are on another registry.

    Congress was given the authority to make the laws implementing the copyright system by Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the U.S. Constitution. Congress has the authority to make this law, (though I am not saying it is a good idea to make this law). Congress makes all kinds of laws that are stupid ideas. They made a law that said a guy who grows 40 acres of wheat can't keep the wheat to feed it to his family and animals, but instead he must sell his wheat on the open market and then buy food for his animals and family on the open market. The Supreme Court upheld that idiotic law.

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  22. #110
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    I thought the US had freedom of expression laws that would have made a tax on art unacceptable? There would be outrage across the media if something like this was suggested in the UK.

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  23. #111
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    I have a few questions regarding the orphaned works bill, maybe you guys can help.

    1 -This thread is obviously to create a registry so that people's art can be found by corporations intent on using online artwork. My question is -
    How do we know that the corporations will happen to find this registry?
    They could easily claim they couldn't find it...Which would be no different than art theft today.

    2- The existing copyright law states that any artwork automatically becomes the artists copyrighted material as soon as it's created....Does this mean the Orphan Works bill will repeal this law?

    3- If the Orphan Works bill does not repeal the existing copyright law, then why is it necessary to register your art?
    It seems to me that whether it's registered or not,you still have control over your art, and you should be able to register the stolen art in question at anytime...Which means you wouldn't need to register every piece of your art, but rather just the pieces which you discovered have been used without your consent, and are going to be involved in a legal battle.


    4- The Orphan Works bill states that if a corporation uses an existing piece of orphaned art, and the ARTIST surfaces later, he/she regains control of the art....Isn't this the same situation as it stands now?

    I know that currently, if you create an image you automatically own the copyright...However if you want to go to court for a copyright dispute, you have to officially register the art at the copyright office for documentation required in a court case.

    I was just wondering how the Orphan Works registration would be different than the current Copyright registration ??
    Both registrations cost $


    Thanks

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  25. #112
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    Arrtorney: a question, then. If I have a website which displays all my artwork complete with copyright notifications, would that also be a "home address" for my works? Or should I repost everything here (and there is a LOT ...)

    Also, the app "TinEye" makes this whole Orphaned Works thing silly as hell.

    http://tineye.com/login/submit

    With TinEye, you can post a jpeg, and it will scour the internet and show you any variation of that file on the internet. It's quite astounding, and I wonder if a good registry shouldn't include a link to it prominently on the home page?

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  27. #113
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    Ignatz: The Orphaned Works bill caps damages at an unrealistically low level -- something like $800 if my memory serves. It makes a rights battle too expensive to bother with, because you'll never recoup your expenses. Under the guise of "building in accountability" they give thieves a "get oout of jail free" card.

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  28. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddLo View Post
    Ignatz: The Orphaned Works bill caps damages at an unrealistically low level -- something like $800 if my memory serves. It makes a rights battle too expensive to bother with, because you'll never recoup your expenses. Under the guise of "building in accountability" they give thieves a "get oout of jail free" card.
    Thanks for the info,I had heard about the cap but didn't know it was that low.

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  29. #115
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    Since the Orphan Works bill remains pending legislation, the actual language of the bill can continue to morph and so nothing yet is set in stone. I am therefore talking out of my ass here and since this is not yet a law, what I am saying is not legal advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignatz View Post
    I have a few questions regarding the orphaned works bill, maybe you guys can help.

    1 -This thread is obviously to create a registry so that people's art can be found by corporations intent on using online artwork. My question is -
    How do we know that the corporations will happen to find this registry?
    They could easily claim they couldn't find it...Which would be no different than art theft today.
    This also relates to ToddLo's question. That "reasonable" term they are using in the draft bills to describe the search is a legal phrase that generally means the person has a duty to exercise an ordinary level of care in view of what they are doing. They are not supposed to be able to turn a blind eye to really obvious things like a Google image search for example. I recently had a meeting with a representative of a big web site optimization firm that studies Google's methods (how the spiders go out and find things etc.) And your best bet outside of the Copyright Office is going to be on the sites that get major traffic, good relevant content, and lots of links in and out because they are the ones who will pop up first or second page in reasonable searches. Conceptart.org is one of those sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignatz View Post
    2- The existing copyright law states that any artwork automatically becomes the artists copyrighted material as soon as it's created....Does this mean the Orphan Works bill will repeal this law?
    Think of the Orphan works bill more as a loophole defense like the "fair use" doctrine or the "first sale" doctrine. The copyright will still exist in theory but the infringer would have an applicable defense if the work can be ruled to be an orphan work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignatz View Post
    3- If the Orphan Works bill does not repeal the existing copyright law, then why is it necessary to register your art?
    It seems to me that whether it's registered or not,you still have control over your art, and you should be able to register the stolen art in question at anytime...Which means you wouldn't need to register every piece of your art, but rather just the pieces which you discovered have been used without your consent, and are going to be involved in a legal battle.
    Unless you go to Washington D.C. and walk up to the counter in the Copyright Office it can take months to get a registration certificate for a work. (What a pain in the ass!) The registration with a good, obvious, high traffic registry makes it a big risk for the would be pirate infringer because it reduces the likelihood they can pull off a successful defense claiming they can't find the author of your work. For reasons of collecting damages it is better for you if you can prove they knew or should have known they were doing something wrong in the meantime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignatz View Post
    4- The Orphan Works bill states that if a corporation uses an existing piece of orphaned art, and the ARTIST surfaces later, he/she regains control of the art....Isn't this the same situation as it stands now?

    I know that currently, if you create an image you automatically own the copyright...However if you want to go to court for a copyright dispute, you have to officially register the art at the copyright office for documentation required in a court case.

    I was just wondering how the Orphan Works registration would be different than the current Copyright registration ??
    Both registrations cost $


    Thanks
    There is a difference between the case where the artist surfaces and can sue for retroactive damages and the case where the artist surfaces but has no enforceable right to sue for retroactive damages. If your work was an Orphan work and you surface, the infringer can say "Oops! Sorry! We couldn't find you." and you just have to deal with it because they have a defense if you were to file a suit. Currently you can reply "I don't care whether you could find me or not, that's my copyrighted work and I'm suing your punk ass."

    And the registry that is now available on Conceptart.org does not cost money. That is the gift that Jason has given to this community. Yes there are limits to what he can do. There are limits to what anybody can do.

    There are already limits to the statutory damages you can claim for an infringement unless you can prove the level of your actual damages. Proving actual damages generally necessitates the hiring of a forensic accountant who is going to cost about $10,000 for testifying as to his opinion of your damages. Plaintiff-side copyright infringement is a tough game even under the current circumstances. People just don't want to see it getting any worse.

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  31. #116
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    The registration with a good, obvious, high traffic registry makes it a big risk for the would be pirate infringer because it reduces the likelihood they can pull off a successful defense claiming they can't find the author of your work. For reasons of collecting damages it is better for you if you can prove they knew or should have known they were doing something wrong in the meantime.
    Question in response to that, and this may seem really 'noobish' of me:

    If we were to simply include our name in the name of the .jpg file we upload - for example, a work called "Wacky landscape" by me - named wackyscape_by_tigermoth.jpg OR wackyscape_by_jsmith.jpg ...

    wouldn't that be fair proof that you were 'findable' or googlable by said corporate pirate that stole your art?

    So if you were to post a work on your own, lesser-trafficked site, a safe buffer would be to include your name in the file - while you could get away with just including i.d. on a site like CA, to ENSURE there would be no excuse?

    (Does that make sense? Seems right to me...) Then again, when did government ever go with the simple stuff that would make sense....

    Anyway - thoughts?

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  32. #117
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    If you are dealing with a pirate type he/she will undoubtedly re-save the file with a different name before re-posting. In the lawsuit it would be possible to request discovery of files on that guy's computer (but they might have been "accidentally" erased somehow). The way to get around such tomfoolery is to have identifying information embedded in the image as a sort of watermark that is not visible. If you have the key, and the guy is a nitwit, then you might be able to extract the identifying information from his copy of the image even if he tried renaming the file (thereby proving he ripped it from your site).

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  33. #118
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    Thanks, Arttorney

    So my next question would be - how to add the secret embedded watermark?

    Really I suppose there is no foolproof way though. We'll just have to wait to see what happens in Congress...til then I'm coming back to CA.

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  34. #119
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    Post number one of this thread suggests that CA is already watermarking the images uploaded to CA with that self same information people complain about having to type in the Attachment Manager. I hope it is beginning to get a little more clear why you need to type correct information on there. You need to help CA to help you.

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  35. #120
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    Ahh - I was under the impression they only meant a physical watermark on the front. I haven't actually been on CA for quite a while - and just recently some friends convinced me to come back and check it out again. I'm glad I did.

    Anyway, will have a closer look at the system, thanks again!

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