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Thread: Rock and Roll

  1. #1
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    I saw this a few years back...why exactly are you posting it?

    Even though I'm a Christian, I think the tone taken in that documentary is rather alarmist. They put way too much focus on the issue, making it seem like all secular musicians and their fans are destined for Hell.

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    Yes, of course the end times are here because this is the only time in history when people were hedonistic, narcissistic merry-makers.

    Mark Antony would teach these rockin' pansies a lesson or two

    (not Mark Anthony, Mark Antony... big ass difference)

    Last edited by Jason Rainville; December 26th, 2008 at 11:17 PM.
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  6. #4
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    zpsht.... you know who could teach anyone a lesson or two? Robert Plant.... Jimmy Page.... John Paul Jones.... John Bonham...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FourTonMantis View Post
    I saw this a few years back...why exactly are you posting it?

    Even though I'm a Christian, I think the tone taken in that documentary is rather alarmist. They put way too much focus on the issue, making it seem like all secular musicians and their fans are destined for Hell.
    Doesn't the Bible say that non-believers are going to hell? If they believe that, then you can't blame them for being alarmist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Man Made God View Post
    Doesn't the Bible say that non-believers are going to hell? If they believe that, then you can't blame them for being alarmist.
    Yes, the Bible says that all who do not accept Christ as their savior are going to hell, but not all secular musicians are non-believers. The same goes with fans of secular music.

    I listen to a ton of non-Christian music. That doesn't negate the fact that I'm a Christian and believe in the Bible as the Word of God. The tone taken in that documentary makes it seem like listening to secular music is something that's going to poison your mind. Yeah, there's a lot of secular music I won't listen to because of lyrical content, but what I do listen to doesn't really bother me. Everyone has different convictions concerning what Christians should and shouldn't listen to. I can understand why someone would feel bad about listening to music that doesn't necessarily glorify God, and I respect them for that and I would be willing not to listen to that kind of music around that person.

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    Blahm, I can see how the conspiracy theorist in you could get into this, but I mean, come on, how much of this shit can you actually believe? I mean, I can understand believing in one conspiracy theory... but all of them?

    And commies created rock n roll to take over America? Jimi Hendrix was possessed by a demon? I mean, if that's true, someone find that demon! I want him making records again!

    Last edited by TASmith; December 27th, 2008 at 06:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    Blahm, I can see how the conspiracy theorist in you could get into this, but I mean, come on, how much of this shit can you actually believe? I mean, I can understand believing in one conspiracy theory... but all of them?

    And commies created rock n roll to take over America? Jimi Hendrix was possessed by a demon? I mean, if that's true, someone find that demon! I want him making records again!
    Well ive been up on conspiracy stuff for a long time and im not even christian. The hardcore demon stuff in this documentary is pretty off the wall i agree. But the stuff about the beatles being used to push an agenda of alienating children from their parents and changing the fabric of society i agree with wholeheartedly. If you look at the history of commuism it always starts with a destabilizing. Then you have people that act as 'patriots' fomenting a revolution and like magic there is people lying in wait to seize power. I belive that is what is being attempted in america. History has shown that a christian nation is a stable one, so this would have to be one of the first things to be destroyed. The same type of war is being waged on Islam as well.

    Also its a little easier to understand when you know that the media of the world is largly controlled by Zionists. And There is a Zionist behind every dictator. Hitler, Stalin etc.

    Last edited by Blahm; December 27th, 2008 at 07:58 PM.
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    ugh... a couple quick questions..

    1. Tell me who you think was "using" the Beatles. Or, isn't it possible the Beatles themselves were pushing an agenda, and the companies involved were merely riding the coattails for profit?

    2. Didn't the "perfect" 50's culture need some changing?

    3. Who wants to destablize America and take charge? Do you think someone like Ralph Nader is taking orders straight from the Kremlin? Are you really worried about communist propaganda?

    4. Were the people in charge in the 50's really so great? Are they that great now? If someone else could provide real leadership wouldn't that be welcome?

    5. After long study of history, wouldn't it be safe to say no one's really in charge of anything? Doesn't that best explain the mess this world's in? I find it more frightening and accurate than any conspiracy theory I've ever heard.

    6. What do you mean by Zionist? I take that to mean a devout jew, but why would a jew plot with Hitler and Stalin?

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    7. Why does TASmith reply seriously to Blahm?

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    "Yes, there is a conspiracy, in fact there are a great number of conspiracies that are all tripping each other up. And all of those conspiracies are run by paranoid fantasists and ham-fisted clowns. If you are on a list targeted by the CIA, you really have nothing to worry about. If however, you have a name similar to somebody on a list targeted by the CIA, then you are dead." -Alan Moore

    The only thing scarier than affairs all being shaped according to the some malevolent master plan, orchestrated by some ultra-competent big brother is a world where bad things happen for no good reason whatsoever.

    Last edited by N D Hill; December 27th, 2008 at 08:34 PM.
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    Just bear in mind that there is a difference between a "everything that has happened can be blamed on THEM" conspiracy and a conspiracy where a given group has a secret agenda. Conspiracies do exist, the reason for the lack of credibility in popular conspiracy theories is not that conspiracies don't occur, but that the theorists base their ideas on a little bit of fact and a lot of speculation/preconceived ideas.

    But there are also events that would suggest a conspiracy where there is only mutual cooperation, George Carlin summed it up nicely when he said that you don't need a formal conspiracy where interests converge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    6. What do you mean by Zionist? I take that to mean a devout jew, but why would a jew plot with Hitler and Stalin?
    Zionism is support for the Jewish migration into Israel. It's a fact of history that the horrors of World War II were motivating factors for Isreal to be sectioned off from the British empire and to become a Jewish state.

    The idea that Hitler wanted this, that he could have predicted this, that an evil overlord/ shadow government/ illumanati/ grey aliens could have put Hitler in power, expecting this to happen, or all of the above, is a pretty zany assertion to make.

    Oh, and Stalin's a new one, but the Russians never treated the Jews paticuliarly well, either. I suppose you could make a similar argument about that causing Jewish migration, but I find the theory to be bullshit.

    2. Didn't the "perfect" 50's culture need some changing?
    He asserted that the fifties were stable. This is true. Rather the fifties were good or not is highly open to debate. I suggest you Google the J curve if you're really interested in the phenomenon.

    Last edited by Zaxser; December 27th, 2008 at 09:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.Labruyere View Post
    7. Why does TASmith reply seriously to Blahm?
    Why does anyone?
    Edit: See next post. Q.E.D.

    Last edited by Elwell; December 27th, 2008 at 09:13 PM.

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    ugh... a couple quick questions..

    1. Tell me who you think was "using" the Beatles. Or, isn't it possible the Beatles themselves were pushing an agenda, and the companies involved were merely riding the coattails for profit?

    EMI the big record company ownes a ton of small record labels. Or once called "His Masters Voice". Same applies to led zepplin.

    2. Didn't the "perfect" 50's culture need some changing?

    The perfect 50's culture was mainly a steriotype and not based in reality imo.

    3. Who wants to destablize America and take charge? Do you think someone like Ralph Nader is taking orders straight from the Kremlin? Are you really worried about communist propaganda?

    Socialism is soft commuism. Its already in your face with the nationalizing of the auto, banking industry. And we have been hearing quite alot about socialism in mainstream media have we not? I belive that power has already been taken, by Zionism. People always make the connection with russia and communism. when communism was not created by russians but buy Zionist.

    4. Were the people in charge in the 50's really so great? Are they that great now? If someone else could provide real leadership wouldn't that be welcome?

    IF you consider 'real' leadership a dictatorship then i suppose so. I dont know what you mean by the leaders of the 50's. Our presidents have been owned since 1913.

    5. After long study of history, wouldn't it be safe to say no one's really in charge of anything? Doesn't that best explain the mess this world's in? I find it more frightening and accurate than any conspiracy theory I've ever heard.

    This is a whole involved subject and i cant really sum it up for you in a few sentances. But it basicly boils down to who controls the purse controls the world.

    6. What do you mean by Zionist? I take that to mean a devout jew, but why would a jew plot with Hitler and Stalin?

    Zionism. Where to start. Ok, Zionist i dont belive are real Jews although this can be debated. They consist mostly of eastern european jews that control the central banks of the world. And hold the majority of Media, since the 1800's at least. They would usually be refered to as Ashkenazi jews, note the NAZI on the end.

    Why would they plot with Hitler (as in install him to power), one word, Israel. The nation of Israel would not exist if it wasnt for the 2 world wars.
    Check out the Balfour Declaration.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour...ration_of_1917

    Carl Marx was an Ashkenazi Jew. I mean in my mind all roads lead this way. So there it is.

    Last edited by Blahm; December 27th, 2008 at 09:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Why does anyone?
    Edit: See next post. Q.E.D.
    Are you going to attempt to prove me wrong or? I know everyone with a different opinion than you doesnt deserve your time. You are above me.

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    "EMI the big record company ownes a ton of small record labels. Or once called "His Masters Voice". Same applies to led zepplin."

    That's not an answer. So EMI makes music. They don't write the music. The Beatles wrote all their own songs, as did Zeppelin.

    "The perfect 50's culture was mainly a steriotype and not based in reality imo." - agreed, however it was a facade that was accepted and supported at the time. Earlier you asserted that this facade was good and stable, and should be maintained. Do you really think so?

    "Socialism is soft commuism. Its already in your face with the nationalizing of the auto, banking industry. And we have been hearing quite alot about socialism in mainstream media have we not? I belive that power has already been taken, by Zionism. People always make the connection with russia and communism. when communism was not created by russians but buy Zionist."

    I can see the recent bailouts as a kind of socialism. I don't see it paving the way towards anything further. I don't see it as a result of Israeli influence, and I don't see how thirty years of pop music somehow allowed this to occur.

    "IF you consider 'real' leadership a dictatorship then i suppose so. I dont know what you mean by the leaders of the 50's. Our presidents have been owned since 1913."

    I don't follow. Are you saying Obama is a dictator, or that you'd rather have a dictator? You don't know what I mean by leaders of the 50's? Let's start with elected officials, judges, business elite and go on from there. You say Zionists are trying to take their place, and they're doing so through pop music. My original question was, were the leaders of the 50's really so great back then? Was America perfect back then? Was McArthyism great? If not, then why not celebrate new blood?

    "This is a whole involved subject and i cant really sum it up for you in a few sentances. But it basicly boils down to who controls the purse controls the world."

    No one person holds the purse. And even if someone did, I believe you're wrong. Money only buys so much influence. And Money doesn't buy you power. Power gets money.

    "Zionism. Where to start. Ok, Zionist i dont belive are real Jews although this can be debated. They consist mostly of eastern european jews that control the central banks of the world. And hold the majority of Media, since the 1800's at least. They would usually be refered to as Ashkenazi jews, note the NAZI on the end. Why would they plot with Hitler (as in install him to power), one word, Israel. The nation of Israel would not exist if it wasnt for the 2 world wars. Check out the Balfour Declaration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour...ration_of_1917 Carl Marx was an Ashkenazi Jew. I mean in my mind all roads lead this way. So there it is."

    There are small groups that want all sorts of things. Government in exile, etc. WWII was a special circumstance in which a misguided Britain figured it could right some wrongs by allowing the formation of Israel. I say misguided in light of the violence that continues to this day there, because of it. You could read that as caving into some special insterests (or politicians being bought, or what have you - I don't know the details). But show me any evidence whatsoever that a jew would encourage Hitler in starting WWII just to get a bit of land in the Middle East. Hell, show me any quote from Karl Marx supporting the creation of a Jewish state.

    Last edited by TASmith; December 27th, 2008 at 10:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    agreed, however it was a facade that was accepted and supported at the time. Earlier you asserted that this facade was good and stable, and should be maintained. Do you really think so?
    In the short run? Hell yes. That's what stability means. I don't think the sixties and seventies were necessarily morally inferior or less "good," but they were definitely tumultuous times. We changed a lot in a very short time, opened our society up more than ever before. Societies have gone belly up in the face of similar change. The fact that we survived relatively unscathed is a greater blessing than I think you know. If you need something to listen to while you draw, I highly recommend this.

    The collapse of the US seems like it would be in the USSR's interest. A period of instability could cause the collapse of the US. The period of social change could (and was, by some) be viewed as social instability. In a conspiracy theorists mind, the dots are easy to connect. If you're looking for better logical backing or *gasp* evidence that the Soviets meant these things to happen, you're probably out of luck.

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    EMI has a habbit of making seemingly lame bands a huge success. My example of that is Led Zepplin. In the begining the didnt write all their own songs, they could barly play them.

    I said nothing of the "facade" whether good or bad. Im talking about people base morality.

    As far as this bailout paving the way for something it has served its purpose. There is many other ways of getting to tyrany. FOr instance the nationalised healthcare that is coming, The obama youth brigades. Bigger national security.

    I dont know why we keep taliking about the 50's But the porpose this music served imo was to DESTABLAIZE american culture. And when a country in in that state iit is vunurable to change. And the Zionist have been here for 100 years at least, they built new york, they have always been in power, but they only made up 2% of people in america. The change in culture was to bring the ordinary american around to this new age way of thinking.

    Im glad you bring up obama, who has more dual israeli citizen in his administration than i have ever seen in my life. This man is a son of David for god sake. lol. new blood is right.

    I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree about who is holding the purse. And i dont beleive its one person more an exiled nation that inhabits the whole world. Zionist started the U.N. and before that the League of Nations. Have you not heard of the IMF or the World Bank? Who do you think controls that? The laws of Buisness are jewish laws.

    The zionist israel thing started before WW2, way before. You would make it seem like Israel is just some side effect of WW2 witch i dont agree. In order to get jews to mass migrate to Israel somthing had to happen. Most jews had very comfortable lives in europe, why would they leave? . And you should look into how many jews were nazi officers. Many.

    Look in the end none of my feeble debating will convince you of anything, i encourage you to look into it for yourself. Henry Ford wrote a four volume book Called the International Jew. Yes, Henry Ford of ford motors. A good place to start.

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    .....

    I just want it noted that my leaving of this discussion is not a sign of agreement in any of the above said statements....

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    Blahm has once again proved his mastery of the Chewbacca Defense.

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    I'm glad that someone "used the Beatles" the way they did, if they hadn't I may had never heard Revolver or Rubber Soul!

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    The Balfour declaration of 1917 does indeed predate WWII (note the 1917 part) and it would require a great deal of foresight for that to be an attempt to right some wrongs done during WWII.. But then again maybe the illuminati had that foresight? (cue hypnotizing zeitgeist music) I find it sad to see how bad they missed the mark on this one: "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." Especially when observing the current violence in the gaza strip.

    But i don't see what any of that has to do with rock and roll.. True, music help destabilize our culture, or rather broadening it, breaking the molds. But that is a good thing, and i believe its a sign of health to get out of stagnation. I do agree that a lot of music is a bad influence on kids, but then again its neccesary to take the bad with the good, since no one should be allowed to force their morals and beliefs on others.

    As for the movie in the first post, i found it to be rather predictive christian fingerpointing. There's nothing in there i haven't heard before, and while they do have some points, they miss the mark with their reasoning, its like hearing someone say "cake tastes good because rubies are red." True, cake is good, but i highly doubt the color of rubies have anything to do with it. And some of the ideas presented are so far fetched that i'm not even gonna go into them..

    I listen to music with messages that to name a few include anti establishment, christian, satanist, atheist, buddhist, anti capitalist, anti globalization, anti communism, pro capitalist, pro communism, pro war, anti war, nihilism, pro drugs, anti drugs, and even some bands with neo nazi undertones. That doesn't necessarily mean i subscribe to the ideas presented, i'm not a neo nazi, christian or satanist.. Its perfectly possible to listen to Cradle of Filth and Snoop Dogg without being particularly fond of neither satan nor weed.

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    Thanks, I needed my daily dose of WTF to giggle at.

    how about the ziggerauts that control your tv?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash View Post
    Douchebag with a great voice.
    He doesn't sing, he doesn't growl, he doesn't roar, he doesn't scream... he screeches. I can't stand his voice, it's so annoying hahaha

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    OI! I can accept a weird discussion about Illuminatti, Zionists and Stalin secretely being a huge jar of jam, but NO MAN can defy Zeppelin!

    It's a conversational rule. If you brake it, you lose. It's like saying Chuck Norris can lose in a fight. Further more, not only questioning their motives but their value as well??? You sure you heard the right zeppelin man?
    They poorly re-did old classics? poorly? Dude, their first album has "good times bad times", "babe I'm gonna leave you" and "Dazed and Confused", on the first side. That's about half the history of rock in their first 3 original songs...

    anyway, conspirancy theories never harmed anyone, except those obsessing about them, but a quick fact to clear your thoughts about the way EMI manipulated Zep, through their carreer, the company had countless fights with them and their manager to agree to release singles, that had a wider and more profitable market. The band never agreed to that, not even for stairway, a move that off course allmost got them dumped from the label.

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    Zep IV was their best. God I love that album. Good times... good times.

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    I think we're putting the cart before the horse. Maybe it was the destabilized culture that made the music that reflected what they were feeling? Was Manet a communist who wanted to destabilize French society with his non-allegorical nudes? Could Dada have been an Illuminati movement to discourage our allies' war efforts?

    Counter-cultures are not the disease, they are a symptom. They are a sign of growth and change. A group of people making it seem like counter-cultures are dangerous is way more scary than Communism. After all, look at all the social growth we have gained from them. Good music, good art, a more socially free society. A society only fails when it stays the same for thousands of years, when there is no progress. Kids today shouldn't have the same exact values as their parents, they are not inorganic robots. They shouldn't listen to the same music or wear the same clothes or have the same sex. It has nothing to do with morals or doing whats right or wrong. It is pretty apparent that out of all the social change humanity has faced that the wrong is still there. Even during the most religiously righteous times in our past, people still died and bad things still happened.

    There is this thing I have noticed about Neocons, its seems that they think the world is worse than it has ever been. There is no more murder, rape, violence, theft, pride, gluttony, greed, lust or bad movies than ever before. It is just that all that bad stuff is more accessible to everyone, hell its beamed into your house, your car and on your computer every second of every day. The sky is not falling though and the world is far from standing still. It's ok, let go. The world isn't going to end because kids listen to rock and roll or get tattoos or have gay sex.



    http://img389.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beetlesno8.jpg

    But I am only a kid. We're lucky enough to have people around who actually experienced these changes and they can provide waaay more than I ever could to this convo.

    Last edited by s.ketch; December 29th, 2008 at 04:13 AM.
    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
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