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Hi, going to start learning animation on my own, so any input would be great. I wasn't sure if this should be "sketchbook", but...I think it makes more sense here...no? Also didn't want to spam board, so...everything will go here from now on:
Animation Test 3: Superimposition and Keypoints from Iggy K on Vimeo.
Also...does anyone know if that .avi upload in media manager actually work? it says it has a 2.33gig limit o.0
Thanks for the help so far.
Last edited by mbarq; December 29th, 2008 at 02:14 AM.
I don't get why the ball rolls uphill.
work for believability. Keep at it.
I want to make a dailies sub forum on here. Like a sketchbook, but for animation practice.
Hey dude, nice exercise ! I have already seen this kind of assignment, but I can't remember where ! Anyway, I'm glad you started your animation sketchbook ! I will also try this exercise !! I also wanna know where you find this kind of exercises !! Keep at it
Bai Fan : I totally agree with this idea, it will be great ! I think it will also be helpfull to create a thread with loads of assignments and exercises, because a beginner ( like Metalclay and me) doesn't know where to start with animation !
Baifan: Hahah, yeah, these exercises, although great, have a few things off. But I think what they're trying to do is get you to learn the basics of the concept taught in the chapter. In this case it would be reading a timing chart, or whatever it's called. As well as the concept of slow-ins, outs, superimposition as demonstrated by translations, key points, and arcs.
I was totally thinking about that, but, I just followed what the "lead animator" put in, I'm a grunt
Sketchbook type deal would be cool. Guess that's what I'm trying to do here, but...I didn't find the sketchbook section appropriate since most of the stuff on there is NOT video.
Walid D: The exercises come from Tony White's The Animation Workbook it's pretty good. It's funny though, the animation is soo dated (I use dated loosely). It reminds me of those animations I would watch on PBS that had this...dunno, homely kind of interesting animation.
The point is, it's a good book and teaches you the basics. You get your info (even animation equipment), then follows it with an exercise and gives you the key frames and info on where to place the inbetweens and the breakdown.
So, far...animation is fun. Just takes some work. Also, pardon the legal pad paper. But, I cut a lot of it, and manually at that, so I'd hate to throw away those bits of paper. I do have white paper now! three reams
Here are two others:
Animation Test 4: Head Turns and Eye Movements from Iggy K on Vimeo.
Animation Test 5: Step Walk from Iggy K on Vimeo.
Last edited by mbarq; December 24th, 2008 at 12:35 AM.
This is a good idea! Hey, a standard animation training that is used a lot is to animate a bouncing ball. That'll help you work on the fundamentals of the sqush and stretch and also a bit on the timing.
So perhaps you could give that a go next.
Bendragon: Mhm, will do. Think it's chapter five in the text I'm following. My lame attempt the first time didn't have some of the stuff I now know, so the second go-around will hopefully be better.
Here are some walks:
Animation Test 6: Walk Cycle from Iggy K on Vimeo.
Animation Test 7: Walk Cycle 2 from Iggy K on Vimeo.
I did twice for two reasons. In the first, I miscalculated the slide distances, so if I wanted to give it a pan background, it would strobe since it's miscalculated (Also the fact it's on 2s).
I also did it again to see how it would look like if I attempted to properly coordinate slide distances and add inbetweens as well. In other words, prepped for a background pan.
Going to try to get the vimeo link up, since it looks a bit better than youtube. Having trouble with my connection, bah.
Have a question:
How do you guys edit your videos? Maybe its because I don't use peg bars and don't have a proper mounting station for my camera, but editing seems to take longer than the actual drawing.
As for how I'm editing right now:
Take pictures of each drawing, import to premiere, adjust clip duration to 00:00:04 (1/24, right?), drop into timeline, crop, rotate and resize each drawing in the preview area, and hope keep at it until it makes some sense. Takes about 3 minutes to edit each drawing in the time line.
I heard OnLocation is really good for this type of this stop-motion like stuff, or is there an even easier program? Thanks.
Last edited by mbarq; December 29th, 2008 at 02:12 AM.
hey dude, it's nice to see you working hard on animation ! I think you're going too rapidly on the character animation ! Take your time ! character animation is really hard, i think you really need to master the basics before doing this kind of stuff ! Anyway, it's quite good ( but i don't have good knowledges about character animation, so i will let bai fan and egerie doing constructive comments ) ! Anyway ! Keep that work, and try to update more often your sketchbook !
Walid D: Mmm, yeah, I thought the animation step walks and walk cycles were more advanced than the squash and stretch ball, but...the walk came first.
Will try to take it a bit slower, mainly because I felt inadequate when it came to animating those legs, I had to keep acting out the movement to figure out how these legs would really look like instead of just pulling it out of my head (which an ideal animator is supposed to do, no?).
Last edited by mbarq; December 29th, 2008 at 11:20 AM.
Actually i can see that you are going on the right way.
You will see your progress as long as it will take less time to create the same motions etc.
Try to fully unterstand the body motion and some of the basic poses here and there for start and then start a sketchbook training your anatomy
(will help you do them without getting bored)
I am going the other way, so i have already done a lot of anatomy studies and recently started my animation trainings.Ok i dont know how much into it i will dive but ok everything is needed to Keep up
Keep up pal, and happy holidays
In the front view, remember the weight shifts side to side as the character steps. If he raises a foot, the weight of the character should be over the planted foot. The way you have it now where the core/root staying firmly set in place looks wrong.
Clay animation using a chart I made up on walking. Just got my animators survival kit and ho-ly cow is it awesome. Really great observations and really helps with the walk cycles which I was (and still am) having problems with.
haha, I love this book! Anyone gotten Eric Goldberg's animator's crashcourse? sounds good from the interviews over at animationpodcast.
Test 11: Claymation from Iggy K on Vimeo.
That clay mation walk cycle is very stiff and is in dire need of in-betweens, just add a few and it should look great!
Check out my thread to critique my art: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...35#post2569035
I agree with Mystical Chocobo, you need to in-between the walk cycle.
Please visit my sketchbook.
Hey great progress Metalclay! I can't wait to see more.
Every video is an improvement. Keep it up for a couple of years and see you at the Oscars.
cool stuff! keep working hard, definitely seeing some improvement already! Is this clay cycle done with replacements? Certainly looks like and that's impressive stuff!
quick question are you using anything to secure the paper? or are you approaching this like a flipbook? I know you said above you were cutting legal paper and using that. Just curious because I recently came across a 3-hole punch peg bar, which basically just allows you to hole punch xerox paper and use that (much cheaper than buying pre-punched animation paper or an animation hole punch). Just got mine not too long ago, Here's the link if you're interested: Link
Mystical Chocobo: Completely agree, I should have probably used some armature first, then gone in and modeled. Inbetweens added! thanks.
Ash888: Added the inbetweens, but not very happy. The way I constructed these models made them very delicate, so any touch and they tip over. Think I'm going to destroy these and make it more in a "rubber" hose style, not "accurate" but really brings home the expression.
egerie: Thanks! Getting bogged down by school work now, but will try and do this as much as I can, I mean...I have to, if I want to get good.
Black Spot: Thanks for the words of encouragement, this along with other people's work, books, and podcasts is really the only thing keeping me going.
Onir: Yup! done with replacements. It was actually very fun sculpting these figures, the things is they were really small, so a pain trying to get things to even resemble what I wanted.
Not using secured paper actually, or even a tripod. I've been meaning to make some kind of contraption, but it takes time, I did make myself a peg bar recently though ate me a popsicle, I did.
It's simple, haven't use it yet, but I think it works. Will get that pegbar as soon as I can though.
Walid D: Will do
Added in the evens. Both clips are the same, one is faster though. For the walk I used that chart I posted up earlier. I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with it though, I don't think "8" has the most extreme hip push to the side, think it's 3 and 11. I also wasn't sure about the foot movement and if it actually moves inward when one walks.
I was looking at some people's movement, and some twist their ankle with the ball of their foot, so the foot seems to move out the side as it goes out to "7" then inside.
Actually, it reminded me of Art Babbitt's whole "breaking" concept of movement. But I dunno, looking at Richard Williams' reproduction of those notes, along with his other notes confuse the hell out of me.
Not just that, hip movements I notice not only move side to side, but up and down, forward and backgrounds, and individually diagonally (each leg). Add in foot idiosyncrasies such as the tilt when it's on the ground and going back as well as in the air when you're pushing off the ground and coming down, you got, literally a million combinations!
How the hell did people learn this? Bah.
Clay replacements from Iggy K on Vimeo.
Last edited by mbarq; January 11th, 2009 at 06:15 PM.
Think I need to actually start reading my survival kit.
So those are replacements! hehe very cool looks like you're getting walks down well, the inbetweens you added on the stop motion cycle definitely helped. Really the only thing I can right now that would help your stop motion studies is a tripod hehe, I completely understand if that's not possible at the moment (been meaning to buy one myself, but I haven't gotten around to it yet).
The paper cycles are looking good too, though I think the first two could be use a couple inbetweens here and there to make the bounce not as fast. You might also want to add a little squash and stretch to help with exaggerating the movement a bit, but that might change what you're going for.
Very nice on making your own peg bar (or an equivalent), was going to try to make one myself before I found that 3 hole punch one. Your paperwork is staying in place really nicely, so what ever you made is certainly doing the job Yea though, I'd definitely give the survival kit a read, it's extremely helpful (as I'd imagine you've gathered ). Keep workin at it, and great work once again!
Before you do anything else, go back and add inbetweens for smoother movement. Also find a way to secure the camera so there is no movement when shooting. The shaking environment is distracting.
Everything that you have posted so far is hard to crit because the choppiness makes it too hard to see the movement.
Work towards smoothness. Then we can worry about timing and weight shift.
Onir: from what I've gathered, it seems walks are one of the toughest things to get down well, and I find it odd that this book has you do that first, then get down to squash and stretch, timing, and spacing, which...I'm pretty sure is important in a walk.
I'm just trying to get through the book though, then move on to Richard Williams' book which I find more elaborate and advanced than the one I'm currently using; which is good.
Anyway, thanks for the comments.
Bai Fan: Done! adding the keys actually made it a bit more fluidly and after adding the inbetweens the concept of timing is making more sense.
Untitled from Iggy K on Vimeo.
nice thread, that last one are looking pretty smooth now!
it all looks good and nice experiments. my only concern is what the frame rate per second (fps)? from what i saw it seems rather low like 10 or 8. the more ideal fps is 12 or 15 fps. it will be more smooth at those but u would have to do more frames (or in-betweens) to achieve the smoothness... but its a nice reward at the end.
in case you haven't all ready got it, i would recommend the book "The Animators Survival Kit" by Richard Williams. very informative and very simple to follow and read.
also, how are you going about as to animate frame by frame? is it just sketch book and a still camera?
Read Richard's book one full page at a time. When I first picked it up and flipped through I intended to use it as just a quick reference when I was having troubles with something. Then one day as I was browsing through I found something that turned my thoughts on bending upside-down. Williams talked about how bending in animation is like when you hold a pencil by the end then wobble it around to make it look like it's bending. "OMG!" were my thoughts. "Stuff CAN look like it's bending in real life even though it doesn't!"
Even though I already knew about the pencil trick from middle school I then spent the next 5-10 minutes watching my pen wobble is awe at Williams' pure genius wisdom.
So after that, coupled with animation-podcast withdrawal I was spurred to read through it one page at a time... though that's been stalled by my reading of the history of pixar.. a book which I forgot in the animation lab at school today.. oops...
So yea, keep practicing, and read that book well. You're making a lot of improvements quite quickly.
"Think I need to actually start reading my survival kit."
Not later, not tomorrow, not "when you have time," just do it. Cover to cover.
You have no idea how much time you will save.
Here would be my suggestion: don't fuck around with animating figures, LET ALONE, complex human characters (the guy in that last walk cycle counts) a good test is
"is this less complicated than He-man?"
If the answer is no, you are shooting yourself in the foot.
Animation is undeniably about drawing, on some fundimental level (traditional anyway) but that doesn't mean you are going to flex your drawing muscles on purpose while trying to capture a motion.
Use a 4b pencil or higher, make loose drawings. If you are working on paper, learn to roll the drawings sooner than later. If you don't know what rolling is, it is in the richard williams book. He talks about it, and suggests top pegs, but I find bottem pegs preferable for adjusting the drawings, while you are working.
Once again, don't animate characters yet. Until you can comfortably work with weight and timing, how do you expect to animate a character?
Unless you are a genius, this would be a brutal learning curve.
Think about it...
if you are working with a pengilum swing in profile, without any moves into the Z axis:
You are learning weight.
you are learning timing.
if you totally nail that exercise, then you can add a little bit of drawing: turn your pengilum into a baseball and have it rotate while it swings (I would suggest using a seperate layer, as it is a secondary motion) then:
You are learning timing
you are concentrating on drawing.
If you totally nail that, try having a pengilum lose momentum in perspective, swinging in the Z axis as it goes:
Concentrating on some simple drawing
When you nail that, why not put some baseball stitching on it?
Now think about how unbelievably hard that would be to make natural looking.
Just a ball on a string. A circle and a line. WHY WOULD YOU START ON A CHARACTER?
when you have a character, even doing a simple action you deal with:
complex drawing (keeping proportions on the up and up enough that the actions are legable. Not to mention perspective!)
and here is the kicker ACTING!
staging is important here too.
These things are totally fine to do if you allready know how to do them independantly. Working with a complex character walking from the get-go is like trying to write a novel in old persian without knowing the alphabet.
Learn the alphabet. (do a ball bounce, a ball bounce in perspective, a leaf drop, and a sack drop)
Learn the language. (do a pengilum swing, a pengilum swing in perspective, a ball bounce in perspective where the camera watches it till it completely settles)
Write a sentence. (try to give a balloon a personality... do it.)
Write your first paragraph. (give a burlap sack a personality, work with inanimate objects, try your first simple character)
Then do a walk cycle. I garentee you wont be fumbling around with proportions, you wont be moving lines around on paper. You will be animating a character, one with purpose, mood and thought process.