Pro/Am?

View testimonialsView Artwork
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 33

Thread: Pro/Am?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Pro/Am?

    For a long time now I've been wondering just how many people here are professional artists (in any capacity) and how many are amatuer or art fans. Most of the art looks pretty professional and I'd be surprised to learn otherwise. At the same time I wonder how much work is out there as I (along with everyone else no doubt) aspire to a future in the industry.

    Any comments, opinions or information on the industry welcome

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    599
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 38 Times in 34 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I think you'll find that there is quite a broad range of members here at conceptart. As for myself i'm only an amateur. As for work, the video games industry is a multi billion dollar industry and growing yearly, so keep your hopes up and work hard! Start a sketchbook and start getting crits to improve your skills

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    2,083
    Thanks
    323
    Thanked 970 Times in 520 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Look at the galleries at the top of the forum, that should give you a starting point. I think there is a range of skill levels here from basic beginner to seasoned professionals. Most of the people who sound like they know they are talking about, probably do.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,678 Times in 5,021 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    The majority of work posted in Finally Finished is by pros, because it's the one area of the site that's heavily moderated for quality.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    The Big Easy
    Posts
    1,866
    Thanks
    625
    Thanked 696 Times in 367 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I guess I count as semi-pro? I've done a couple jobs but not enough to pay the bills.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    3,468
    Thanks
    183
    Thanked 912 Times in 558 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    There are people who are pros in the sense that they are making their money from art and yet they themselves do not actually make the work they are selling. Would you categorize them as pros or as art fans? It's a very complex community here.

    Similarly, there are people posting pro level work but not making any money for one reason or another, e.g. they are still in school. Are they amateurs?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to arttorney For This Useful Post:


  9. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,651
    Thanks
    2,127
    Thanked 2,321 Times in 906 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I do freelance for a living, dont consider myself a pro. Pros are like superheroes to me, like old masters and most of the top concept dudes. annnnnndd yes there are lots of jobs out there if you have the right skills.

    'If you don't make mistakes, you're not working on hard enough problems.And that's a big mistake.'
    www.DaveRapoza.com - Step by Steps, Videos, PSD Downloads, and tons of other crap
    SketchBook
    My Twitter Account
    Schoolism Alien Video Tutorial!
    -HAHAHA B.B.F.F. Forever...-
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    1,215
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked 165 Times in 66 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I suppose I am a 'professional' considering all my bills are payed with an art job, but I would be reticent to describe myself as a pro. I still have too much to learn.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    2,083
    Thanks
    323
    Thanked 970 Times in 520 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by arttorney View Post
    There are people who are pros in the sense that they are making their money from art and yet they themselves do not actually make the work they are selling. Would you categorize them as pros or as art fans? It's a very complex community here.

    Similarly, there are people posting pro level work but not making any money for one reason or another, e.g. they are still in school. Are they amateurs?
    Yeah, it's pretty hard to thrust people into categories, because there is a lot of grey areas. My personal definition of "pro" is someone who makes most of thier living directly off their artwork. Within those professionals there is a range of skill levels from mind blowingly good to solid but not really exciting. Then there is "semi-pro" which I think of as professional level, only they might only earn a portion of their income from their artwork. I'm sure lots of people have their own definitions.

    In all honesty though, it shouldn't matter too much as far as these forums are concerned, unless you are just curious how many people are making a living doing this, to which the answer is probably "more than you think."

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Yakima, WA
    Posts
    378
    Thanks
    148
    Thanked 180 Times in 68 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I would wager that a good portion of those pro's consider themselves professional amateurs - as we're always pushing to improve no matter what our skill level is.

    I'm pulling in a full time income with art, and live off of it, but my work is nowhere near where it needs to be to compete on the level that I consider a big professional area. So yeah, I dunno what that says for you - is your definition based on quality of work? Or ability to live off of it?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to cmalidore For This Useful Post:


  14. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    711
    Thanks
    206
    Thanked 709 Times in 207 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I definitely consider myself an amateur. This site has definitely helped me a bunch though, I've learned a lot about perspective, color theory, abstract drawing, realistic drawing, painting, anatomy, geometry of people and things, the importance of patience, good reference sites, good practices, and all around good advice. And I've already seen a huge improvement in my overall work and comprehension. The more I work, the more I see that I'm able to do stuff that, as little as a year ago, I never would have imagined I would be able to do

    But I think the definition of a professional is a bit of a relative term. After all, even if you have mastered one style ofa particular art form, there's still much more to learn

    Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die

    My Sketchbook
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  15. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,214
    Thanks
    772
    Thanked 463 Times in 225 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I dont know if id feel right calling my self a professional ever, not that i am, im just saying i think its more for other people to decide about you not a title for you to call yourself
    although this opinion will probably change after a few years

    -Demo-
    -Sketch Book Updated Sporadically-
    My Blog
    Tumbler & Wookmark (finished pieces and Cool stuff I find)
    -Facebook(always on but never post)-

    If you see me on FB, or CA Talk to me, never to busy to talk and love to hear from you, chat me up about anything (Music, Games, art, ect)
    If anyone is interested in streams or hangouts let me know!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  16. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,060
    Thanks
    323
    Thanked 458 Times in 338 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    How about an amateur that gets paid from time to time? (No idea why, though, honestly.)

    Don't particularly want to categorize myself, but I really know fuck-all at this point.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  17. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamburg, Germany
    Posts
    972
    Thanks
    618
    Thanked 448 Times in 245 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    My definition of a pro also is someone who makes a living from art. I consider myself semi-pro, because I don't earn enough yet to pay the bills.
    I don't really extend the definition to the quality of the work itself because I know that any serious artist, even if they're extremely skilled, thinks they still have a lot to learn (and I know I have a lot to learn too)

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  18. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,925
    Thanks
    410
    Thanked 273 Times in 205 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    We have many gods here in CA.org. The rest of us are disciples.

    Hail Massive Black!



    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  19. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Well, how does one define "pro" here?

    Even pros are still learning, but for me a pro is someone that is recognized, professionally employed AND able to teach at an advanced level in his/her field of expertise.

    That definition could be a bit insulting for some though...

    A world without art is a world without color.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  20. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    667
    Thanks
    181
    Thanked 65 Times in 39 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara Ramsay View Post
    Well, how does one define "pro" here?

    Even pros are still learning, but for me a pro is someone that is recognized, professionally employed AND able to teach at an advanced level in his/her field of expertise.

    That definition could be a bit insulting for some though...
    Why should they have to teach in order to be considered a professional?

    Definition from the dictionary: "a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional."

    I guess some people only use the word professional or "PRO" to describe someone who has reached some recognized level of skill and received some level of celebrity.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  21. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    The Big Easy
    Posts
    1,866
    Thanks
    625
    Thanked 696 Times in 367 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara Ramsay View Post
    Firstly, I never said they have to teach, I said they should be able to teach at an advanced level.
    That is to say, their knowledge in their area of study/employment should be extensive enough that they can correctly enlighten others.
    I disagree with this. It takes a lot more than just knowledge of a subject to be able to effectively teach it. There are lots of people who are extremely skilled at something and work at the professional level but lack the ability to teach. I'd also say that the opposite is true; that there are teachers who lack the ability to be a professional at something but can teach it.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  22. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    667
    Thanks
    181
    Thanked 65 Times in 39 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara Ramsay View Post
    Firstly, I never said they have to teach, I said they should be able to teach at an advanced level.
    That is to say, their knowledge in their area of study/employment should be extensive enough that they can correctly enlighten others.

    Second, I also never said they needed to have celebrity status.
    I said they need to be recognized.
    They must have worked with credible clientele and therefore have accumulated persons that can vouch for them in terms of character, meeting deadlines etc.

    I never said those who are recognized within smaller pools are not professionals as well though.
    Ah, the second part of what I said wasn't really directed at you. Just at the trends of how I see the word "PRO" used. Guess i should have been more clear than when I just wrote 'some people' and broke the paragraph.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  23. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    I disagree with this. It takes a lot more than just knowledge of a subject to be able to effectively teach it. There are lots of people who are extremely skilled at something and work at the professional level but lack the ability to teach. I'd also say that the opposite is true; that there are teachers who lack the ability to be a professional at something but can teach it.

    OK maybe I am communicating wrong... how can I explain.

    For example DaVinci may have no interest in teaching, or be particularly good at teaching, but many can learn a lot from observing his artwork, because his knowledge base is so vast and his skill set is so advanced that his expertise lie well beyond the "average" and most likely studying his works would help improve the "average"'s artwork instead of degenerate it.

    Sure, if he was to literally "teach" someone that would be great too, but I am saying a professional, would first need an extensive knowledge base so that he has the ability to teach in terms of bestowing his almighty knowledge . Simply studying their work (which is still you being taught) or even having them literally teach you must serve to improve you and not cause you to recede.

    I may have repeated myself somewhere, but hope that is a little more clear

    Last edited by Tamara Ramsay; December 17th, 2008 at 08:48 PM.
    A world without art is a world without color.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  24. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kennygeeze View Post
    Ah, the second part of what I said wasn't really directed at you. Just at the trends of how I see the word "PRO" used. Guess i should have been more clear than when I just wrote 'some people' and broke the paragraph.
    Oh ok, cheers.

    A world without art is a world without color.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  25. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    The Big Easy
    Posts
    1,866
    Thanks
    625
    Thanked 696 Times in 367 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara Ramsay View Post
    OK maybe I am communicating wrong... how can I explain.

    For example DaVinci may have no interest in teaching, or be particularly good at teaching, but many can learn a lot from observing his artwork, because his knowledge base is so vast and his skill set is so advanced that his expertise lie well beyond the "average" and most likely studying his works would help improve the "average"'s artwork instead of degenerate it.

    Sure, if he was to literally "teach" someone that would be great too, but I am saying a professional, would first need an extensive knowledge base so that he has the ability to teach in terms of bestowing his almighty knowledge . Simply studying their work (which is still you being taught) or even having them literally teach you must serve to improve you and not cause you to recede.

    I may have repeated myself somewhere, but hope that is a little more clear
    I think you are changing your meaning after the fact, as your orriginal statement that they "should be able to teach at an advanced level" implies a formal setting, most likely in a college or academy of some sort.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  26. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Southwestern Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,134
    Thanks
    8,227
    Thanked 5,582 Times in 1,786 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    "...as your orriginal statement that they "should be able to teach at an advanced level" implies a formal setting, most likely in a college or academy of some sort."

    I think you're just arguing semantics here, Peter. It's simple English, and you're reading too much into it just to disagree...

    There are at least fifty subjects off the top of my head that I'm qualified to teach (not all of them "art"), and I'm not the only one on this forum, but can't in a college/formal institution because I/we don't have a degree...

    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  27. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    3,468
    Thanks
    183
    Thanked 912 Times in 558 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Anyway, for Sunny Koda, I think your question might have been about whether the art on here is a reasonable benchmark to which one can aspire in seeking to become a pro; in which case:

    What Elwell said.

    If you get to where you got a portfolio of about 20 pieces that could hang in the Finally Finished section without getting moved (and they are of a similar style to each other), then you could probably go out looking for a job without fear of undue embarrassment.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  28. #25
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,234
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 847 Times in 457 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    We're lucky to even be able to ask that question. What if we were fans of, say, brain surgery. Next time you meet new in laws, try telling them that you are still an amateur brainsurgeon but you are studying hard every night after work and practicing every chance you got. Just look at their face. Art, meh, it's hard work and study, but anyone could potentially do it, money or not, schooling or not. It's the end result that counts.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  29. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    glasgow
    Posts
    442
    Thanks
    45
    Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    journeyman!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  30. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thanks arttorney, that's pretty much what I wanted to know and it gives me something to aim at

    Thanks to everyone who contributed, interesting perspectives one and all. By the way, a professional is someone who makes their living from their skill... don't give the word any more meaning or significance than that. The phrase 'personal definition' is just silly.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  31. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,611
    Thanks
    550
    Thanked 1,313 Times in 417 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Ha! When I saw this thread my first thought was:



    So, I guess that tells you where I am.

    I think Arttorney and Elwell summed it for your question. I'm not sure the motive of the qustion, but I did just want to add one thing. I think the diverse mixture of skill levels and backgrounds is what makes this place so special. Even though there are some heavy professionals here, I dont think there is anyone that comes to this site and doesnt learn SOMETHING new.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  32. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    I think you are changing your meaning after the fact, as your orriginal statement that they "should be able to teach at an advanced level" implies a formal setting, most likely in a college or academy of some sort.
    No, you simply aren't understanding, it has nothing to do with teaching in a "formal setting" it has everything with the ABILITY to teach through the level of their work, period.

    A world without art is a world without color.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  33. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    2,328
    Thanks
    557
    Thanked 708 Times in 426 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hmmm, I think I can consider myself semi-semi-pro. I have made some good money whenever I did paid work. But since it's a rare thing right now, as a saying goes, it's not enough to scratch my bum with.

    I think that might change in these next years, and my confidence in selling more art will help. For the actual looks of my art, I think I just want to improve, making my art look great, even if it looks professional or not. (definitely a grey area though, as many said already)

    As for the teaching argument, let's not worry about it! O_O That's a varying thing with people, whether some implicit/explicit teaching could happen from their works or their words.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • 424,149 Artists
  • 3,599,276 Artist Posts
  • 32,941 Sketchbooks
  • 54 New Art Jobs
Art Workshop Discount Inside
Register

Developed Actively by vBSocial.com
The Art Department
SpringOfSea's Sketchbook