Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 33

Thread: Pro/Am?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Well, how does one define "pro" here?

    Even pros are still learning, but for me a pro is someone that is recognized, professionally employed AND able to teach at an advanced level in his/her field of expertise.

    That definition could be a bit insulting for some though...
    A world without art is a world without color.


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    667
    Thanks
    181
    Thanked 65 Times in 39 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara Ramsay View Post
    Well, how does one define "pro" here?

    Even pros are still learning, but for me a pro is someone that is recognized, professionally employed AND able to teach at an advanced level in his/her field of expertise.

    That definition could be a bit insulting for some though...
    Why should they have to teach in order to be considered a professional?

    Definition from the dictionary: "a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional."

    I guess some people only use the word professional or "PRO" to describe someone who has reached some recognized level of skill and received some level of celebrity.

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    The Big Easy
    Posts
    1,866
    Thanks
    625
    Thanked 699 Times in 367 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara Ramsay View Post
    Firstly, I never said they have to teach, I said they should be able to teach at an advanced level.
    That is to say, their knowledge in their area of study/employment should be extensive enough that they can correctly enlighten others.
    I disagree with this. It takes a lot more than just knowledge of a subject to be able to effectively teach it. There are lots of people who are extremely skilled at something and work at the professional level but lack the ability to teach. I'd also say that the opposite is true; that there are teachers who lack the ability to be a professional at something but can teach it.

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    667
    Thanks
    181
    Thanked 65 Times in 39 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara Ramsay View Post
    Firstly, I never said they have to teach, I said they should be able to teach at an advanced level.
    That is to say, their knowledge in their area of study/employment should be extensive enough that they can correctly enlighten others.

    Second, I also never said they needed to have celebrity status.
    I said they need to be recognized.
    They must have worked with credible clientele and therefore have accumulated persons that can vouch for them in terms of character, meeting deadlines etc.

    I never said those who are recognized within smaller pools are not professionals as well though.
    Ah, the second part of what I said wasn't really directed at you. Just at the trends of how I see the word "PRO" used. Guess i should have been more clear than when I just wrote 'some people' and broke the paragraph.

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    I disagree with this. It takes a lot more than just knowledge of a subject to be able to effectively teach it. There are lots of people who are extremely skilled at something and work at the professional level but lack the ability to teach. I'd also say that the opposite is true; that there are teachers who lack the ability to be a professional at something but can teach it.

    OK maybe I am communicating wrong... how can I explain.

    For example DaVinci may have no interest in teaching, or be particularly good at teaching, but many can learn a lot from observing his artwork, because his knowledge base is so vast and his skill set is so advanced that his expertise lie well beyond the "average" and most likely studying his works would help improve the "average"'s artwork instead of degenerate it.

    Sure, if he was to literally "teach" someone that would be great too, but I am saying a professional, would first need an extensive knowledge base so that he has the ability to teach in terms of bestowing his almighty knowledge . Simply studying their work (which is still you being taught) or even having them literally teach you must serve to improve you and not cause you to recede.

    I may have repeated myself somewhere, but hope that is a little more clear
    Last edited by Tamara Ramsay; December 17th, 2008 at 08:48 PM.
    A world without art is a world without color.

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kennygeeze View Post
    Ah, the second part of what I said wasn't really directed at you. Just at the trends of how I see the word "PRO" used. Guess i should have been more clear than when I just wrote 'some people' and broke the paragraph.
    Oh ok, cheers.
    A world without art is a world without color.

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    The Big Easy
    Posts
    1,866
    Thanks
    625
    Thanked 699 Times in 367 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara Ramsay View Post
    OK maybe I am communicating wrong... how can I explain.

    For example DaVinci may have no interest in teaching, or be particularly good at teaching, but many can learn a lot from observing his artwork, because his knowledge base is so vast and his skill set is so advanced that his expertise lie well beyond the "average" and most likely studying his works would help improve the "average"'s artwork instead of degenerate it.

    Sure, if he was to literally "teach" someone that would be great too, but I am saying a professional, would first need an extensive knowledge base so that he has the ability to teach in terms of bestowing his almighty knowledge . Simply studying their work (which is still you being taught) or even having them literally teach you must serve to improve you and not cause you to recede.

    I may have repeated myself somewhere, but hope that is a little more clear
    I think you are changing your meaning after the fact, as your orriginal statement that they "should be able to teach at an advanced level" implies a formal setting, most likely in a college or academy of some sort.

  9. #23
    Ilaekae's Avatar
    Ilaekae is offline P.O.W.! Leader, Complete Idiot, Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Southwestern Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,130
    Thanks
    8,241
    Thanked 5,593 Times in 1,790 Posts
    "...as your orriginal statement that they "should be able to teach at an advanced level" implies a formal setting, most likely in a college or academy of some sort."

    I think you're just arguing semantics here, Peter. It's simple English, and you're reading too much into it just to disagree...

    There are at least fifty subjects off the top of my head that I'm qualified to teach (not all of them "art"), and I'm not the only one on this forum, but can't in a college/formal institution because I/we don't have a degree...
    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    3,852
    Thanks
    257
    Thanked 1,010 Times in 633 Posts
    Anyway, for Sunny Koda, I think your question might have been about whether the art on here is a reasonable benchmark to which one can aspire in seeking to become a pro; in which case:

    What Elwell said.

    If you get to where you got a portfolio of about 20 pieces that could hang in the Finally Finished section without getting moved (and they are of a similar style to each other), then you could probably go out looking for a job without fear of undue embarrassment.

  11. #25
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,233
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 848 Times in 457 Posts
    We're lucky to even be able to ask that question. What if we were fans of, say, brain surgery. Next time you meet new in laws, try telling them that you are still an amateur brainsurgeon but you are studying hard every night after work and practicing every chance you got. Just look at their face. Art, meh, it's hard work and study, but anyone could potentially do it, money or not, schooling or not. It's the end result that counts.

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    glasgow
    Posts
    442
    Thanks
    45
    Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
    journeyman!

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Thanks arttorney, that's pretty much what I wanted to know and it gives me something to aim at

    Thanks to everyone who contributed, interesting perspectives one and all. By the way, a professional is someone who makes their living from their skill... don't give the word any more meaning or significance than that. The phrase 'personal definition' is just silly.

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,611
    Thanks
    550
    Thanked 1,313 Times in 417 Posts
    Ha! When I saw this thread my first thought was:



    So, I guess that tells you where I am.

    I think Arttorney and Elwell summed it for your question. I'm not sure the motive of the qustion, but I did just want to add one thing. I think the diverse mixture of skill levels and backgrounds is what makes this place so special. Even though there are some heavy professionals here, I dont think there is anyone that comes to this site and doesnt learn SOMETHING new.

  15. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    I think you are changing your meaning after the fact, as your orriginal statement that they "should be able to teach at an advanced level" implies a formal setting, most likely in a college or academy of some sort.
    No, you simply aren't understanding, it has nothing to do with teaching in a "formal setting" it has everything with the ABILITY to teach through the level of their work, period.
    A world without art is a world without color.

  16. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    2,328
    Thanks
    557
    Thanked 708 Times in 426 Posts
    Hmmm, I think I can consider myself semi-semi-pro. I have made some good money whenever I did paid work. But since it's a rare thing right now, as a saying goes, it's not enough to scratch my bum with.

    I think that might change in these next years, and my confidence in selling more art will help. For the actual looks of my art, I think I just want to improve, making my art look great, even if it looks professional or not. (definitely a grey area though, as many said already)

    As for the teaching argument, let's not worry about it! O_O That's a varying thing with people, whether some implicit/explicit teaching could happen from their works or their words.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Developed Actively by the makers of the Best Amazon Podcast