HTML vs. FLASH for personal website

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    HTML vs. FLASH for personal website

    If you decide to make your own portfolio website, make it pure HTML or Flash movie!?

    in simple...Do you like 100% flash websites at all?!

    I build many flash and html websites for tonz of peoples and companies, finally I decide to make one for myself, But I don't know to make Flash or HTML!!

    Note: I know pros and cons of each one in technical side, But I need your personal feeling about each one, you feel comfort in which site?!...for example some peoples hate flash at all!!


    Thanks

    Last edited by unimad; October 3rd, 2008 at 07:31 PM.
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    I hate Flash websites. There is nothing more irritating than being on a high speed connection that connects to a website that says "LOADING" It screams SLOW SITE. This is different from downloading a video, because of size, but a lot of sites built with flash have images that wouldn't take that long at all if just scripted with plain html.


    Quote Originally Posted by unimad View Post
    I build many flash and html websites for tonz of peoples and companies, finally I decide to make one for myself, But I don't know to make Flash or HTML!!
    Also the above sentence seems very contradicting?

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  5. #3
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    Thanks for reply,
    actually there is no difference between html and flash in loading time, but html load images slowly one by one and you don't need to wait for minutes to load all images (also there are scripts that give you ability to preload images in HTML site)

    but why very contradicting?! sorry but I don't understand meaning, dictionary don't give me a lot info about "contradicting"

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    Having studied web design and having a lot of friends who do web design as well, if it can be done with HTML & CSS, do it with HTML & CSS...

    Flash is great when used properly and most people just don't bother to do that. I know how to use flash and I wouldn't do a whole site in it.

    There are a lot of cool effects you can get with CSS, JQuery/Scriptaculous/MooTools that would allow you to have interactablity, or even flash parts on the html pages without the super long loading times that go along with 100% flash sites.

    I don't like waiting for everything to preload and then people do the 2nd cardinal sin and put music on their sites.....seems to go hand in hand w/flash.

    My 2 cents, html wins.

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  8. #5
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    seems like HTML wins until now!

    I hate god damn preloader bar too...with help of angels like javascript, spryassets and ajax we can simulate flash effects and dynamics in html sites, but problem rise up when switching between browsers (known as cross browser problems), and also some peoples have javascript disabled for security reasons.

    I notice many of personal official sites build up full-flash, good example is andrew jones personal website!...and many of them need at least flash player 9!!

    Last edited by unimad; October 2nd, 2008 at 06:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unimad View Post
    I notice more than 80% of artists have full-flash website, good example is andrew jones personal website!...and many of them need at least flash player 9!!
    They also have art blogs, which lack the flash. Guess which people return visit more?

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  10. #7
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    "Guess which people return visit more?"

    Personally never visit again, due to lack of high-speed internet connection!

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    the most exciting thing about your site should be your art

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    "the most exciting thing about your site should be your art"
    I agree, this is the most important thing for the artist website.

    my site is not just art portfolio, I want to showcase my websites for customers, hopefully quality of my webdesign fills lack of good art!! (I like computer programming from childhood, sorry but even more than art!, you know each of us have specific talent which developed from childhood)

    Last edited by unimad; October 2nd, 2008 at 07:21 PM.
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    I agree with KS that your art should be the standout.

    However with CSS, just in terms of controlling typography alone, you can really do high end work.

    And then, you can code up some minor elements, like small but ultra hip buttons or something with flash, to really bring some dazzle without overloading. That way you keep the simplicity and compatibility, while still getting a little flash in there and some css style.

    Just my 2 cents.
    kev

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

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    I plan on redoing my completely flash site in html one of these days, but my html/dreamweaver class sucked while my flash class was great, hence my only really learning flash....

    anyone have a dreamweaver/html tutorial that they can recommend?

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    something coool:

    Bill gates loves flash more than HTML, he see future of web in flash animations and he believes flash change the internet appereance forever, he see dream of high-speed internet connections and full animation websites!

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    "my html/dreamweaver class sucked while my flash class was great", I think this is because you are an artist, artists feel more comfort in flash environment, because it's more graphical and less need to hanging around 400line source code.

    about tutorial, sorry I don't know any useful tutorial, but feel free to contact me for help...


    Seems like HTML win the game!!

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    Bill Gates is responsible for Internet Explorer 6, which is the bete noir of the coding community. The mob is out for his head and he'll say anything to save his skin!

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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  20. #15
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    why just Internet Explorer 6, he sucks with god damn windows at all, and vista these days make another blackhole in microsoft!!...

    I think he most dream about BUGZZZzzz!!

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    JR, I think the best way to learn html/dreamweaver is to attempt to do a good website with it.

    There's tons and tons of online resources. Endless. On html, css, using golive or dreamweaver, java code... I've seen websites that auto-generate code for you, give away bits of code for stuff like image "carousels" like flickr uses, code dictionaries... and if all that fails, you download the source code of some site you like and look it over line by line and see how and why it's put together the way it is. Its all logic (if extremely claustrophobic)...

    Its just like learning art. There's no one book. There's ten thousand of them.

    Which is why its important to have a site to work on so it can direct your research energies. If you just try to learn html out of the blue you'll flounder around forever. The resources are endless.

    My 2 cents (now worth 1.5 cents and dropping due to market forces and internal mismanagement)

    kev

    EDIT: Unimad: Because IE6 has proliferated all over the world and is on, from what I hear, like half the machines in use on the net. Which means, if you want your website to work across browsers, you pretty much have to make sure it works on IE6. Which wouldn't be so bad if IE6 wasn't the worst browser ever created in modern computer history. (Slight hyperbole.)

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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  23. #17
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    highly agree with KEV, i learn web/flash design by hanging around websites source code and build lots of free websites for my friends just for practice!
    i never study in classes...

    you know, this is about practice just like art, you practice art from childhood and i practice web design, now you are talented artist and i am talented web developer.

    so now i practice drawing and you practice web design :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by unimad View Post

    my site is not just art portfolio, I want to showcase my websites for customers, hopefully quality of my webdesign fills lack of good art!! (I like computer programming from childhood, sorry but even more than art!, you know each of us have specific talent which developed from childhood)
    i obviously assumed you meant a portfolio site. my bad

    on the self promotional side:
    in my experience, web clients/employers have been less impressed with personal sites than sites ive designed for other clients or businesses. even if there are no bells and whistles.

    so id save my energy, and build several small sites for real clients( there are no shortage of people who need sites) , rather than build one super giant site with every trick in the book.

    this will give you a better sense of what day to day web work is like.

    i do like flash, in it's place,
    but it is important to be sensitive to the fact that the client is most concerned with business strategy.

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  26. #19
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    thanks dear kev, hopefuly with help of dreamweaver we can check our source code for crossbrowser ready!

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    Apparantly there's a site that will auto-check your site in all the major browsers. Don't know the name though. (Could be just a rumor. Dunno.)

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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  28. #21
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    Jason Rainville: I code all my sites by hand in Notepad and learned all my html/css/php and more at htmlgoodies.com. As I remember it, the tutorials were extremely easy to understand (visuals!), didn't talk down to you, and were decently entertaining. You can also skip around to just learn the bits you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digital_zombie View Post
    Having studied web design and having a lot of friends who do web design as well, if it can be done with HTML & CSS, do it with HTML & CSS...

    Flash is great when used properly and most people just don't bother to do that. I know how to use flash and I wouldn't do a whole site in it.

    There are a lot of cool effects you can get with CSS, JQuery/Scriptaculous/MooTools that would allow you to have interactablity, or even flash parts on the html pages without the super long loading times that go along with 100% flash sites.

    I don't like waiting for everything to preload and then people do the 2nd cardinal sin and put music on their sites.....seems to go hand in hand w/flash.

    My 2 cents, html wins.
    I agree with all of this. ;O

    dnyy on IRC :o
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  32. #23
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    The whole point is that your work and your contact info be seen by art directors in a clean, professional presentation. If any of the site design gets in the way of this goal, don't do it. Stay clean and accessible, especially at first, you can get fancy later when they are beating down your door for work.

    In other words, skip the fancy Flash stuff because 99.99% of the time, it gets in the way.

    Read this article by Jon Jones on how your work needs to be seen, too:
    http://www.notesongamedev.net/resour...o-repels-jobs/

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    flash sites make baby jesus cry

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  35. #25
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    I like the idea of flash website, but for some reason when ever I meet one on the web I usually just leave rather than look on it.

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    I have a javascript blocker, a flash blocker, a pop-up blocker, a lay-out blocker and maybe an additional add-blocker in case the first 3 fail to recognize an add.

    Flash is nice for pet projects on CD roms. It does not belong on the internet, except maybe for the tower defence flash game.

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    I'm almost certain Flash's original purpose was for animation on the internet.

    dnyy on IRC :o
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  38. #28
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    doing a bit of web design myself what I generally say to clients when they ask about flash is

    if you want everyone to see your site forget flash

    if you want a percentage of people to see your site and be dazzled by animations by all means use flash

    If you want people with slow connections cursing you for all eternity use lots of flash.

    __________________________________

    you need to idenity your customer base

    Will a flash website best server what you are showing on the site or would a flash gallery be better - by the way you can get free galleries that run on css and php that ape some of the features of a flash gallery.

    If you are using flash make you us the detect flash script in the html

    and put some text in the index html page....

    even if its just a link to download abode flash and your contact details as well.

    A lot of people use spy ware blockers with flash killers (as Hyskoa pointed out) so a flash site appears as a blank page.
    so you automatically lose those people.

    so I think the general consensus is use html if you want a flash gallery offer an alternative

    or build two sites one in html and one in flash

    the one reason why flash gained popularity is there are no worries about cross browser compability and you could do cool effects, but most people go ott with flash.

    Make the site in html download safari, opera, mozilla, internet explorer... you can actually down load a zip file with most of the releases of internet explorer... I can't remember the url.

    SKETCHBOOK

    "There aren't any shortcuts. You've got to dig in – study and draw the world around you. This is the only way to hone your skill and develop a style that is your own". GREG CAPULLO
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  39. #29
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    Also, there's a ton of great gallery scripts out there using jquery and mootools if you want it snazzy.

    dnyy on IRC :o
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    Whoaaa, lots of feedback, thanks guys, I RLY get your feeling about flash hole!!

    Finally I decide to make it pure Dynamic HTML...thanks...

    ---------------
    I have good statistic report here, which could be useful for you if decide to make website:

    Browsers - September 2008

    FireFox = 42.6%
    IE7 = 26.3%
    IE6 = 22.3%
    Google Chrome = 3.1%
    Safari = 2.7%
    Opera = 2.0%
    Mozilla Suite = 0.5%


    Java Status - January 2008

    JavaScript On = 95%
    JavaScript Off = 5%


    Operation System - September 2008

    Windows XP = 73.3%
    Windows Vista = 13.2%
    Mac = 5.2%
    Linux = 3.8%
    Windows 2000 = 2.2%
    Windows 2003 = 1.8%
    Windows 98 = 0.2%


    Display Resolution - January 2008

    1024x768 = 48%
    Above 1024x768 = 38%
    800x600 = 8%
    Unknown = 6%
    640x480 = 0%


    Color Depth - January 2008

    16,777,216 (24bit/32bit) = 90%
    65,536 (16bit) = 8%
    256 (8bit) = 2%


    Flash version - September 2008

    Flash 9 = 58%
    Flash 8 = 14%
    Flash 7 = 13%
    Flash 6 = 8%
    Flash 5 = 6%
    Below 5 = 1%


    THE END
    ----------------

    Ohhh,

    "I have a javascript blocker, a flash blocker, a pop-up blocker, a lay-out blocker and maybe an additional add-blocker in case the first 3 fail to recognize an add."

    I think it's better to turn off your computer, unplug power cable and turn off your brain!!

    if this is about prevent from hack/crack/spywares and javascript trojans, you still in danger, because lots of other holes in your computer, such as remote assisstance UIS port, HTML java which can't be turn off (it's different than JavaScript programs), google rank if you have Google toolbar, windows update security holes (good as automatic-update of all other programs) and finally your outlook express pop/smtp!!!

    While you are Online, there are lots of dangers which never be aware of them, try KIS (kaspersky anti-virus) to see how chinese and indonesian hackers try to enter to your computer without any reason or downloaded trojan backdoor and hopefuly KIS block their IP's...

    and about those Chinese hackers, they use random IP bombers to crack your firewall and push trojan files into your computer...if they do that, you are in greaat danger!...they use lots of scanner and monitors to search for open ports in tonz of online PC's around the globe!!

    Sorry I can't tell you more, because I have fear to ban my account!!

    Look at this image, this is KIS report, I have highly secure computer, because I have good knowledge about html, hack and crack...but...you can see how Chinese try to enter my desktop because god damn UDP Port 1434, but hopefuly KIS block them!!...
    UDP Port 1434 = Microsoft SQL Monitor use in monitoring Microsoft SQL Databases (god damn microsoft and bill gates)

    In second image I catch and destroy one NOWWW!!!!...KIS report it in pop-up...

    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Last edited by unimad; October 3rd, 2008 at 09:30 AM.
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