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  1. #211
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    Yeah I know, it was bound to happen. The only reason the first draft did not pass was because it "wasn't financially irresponsible enough".

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    Quote Originally Posted by evildisco View Post
    Yeah I know, it was bound to happen. The only reason the first draft did not pass was because it "wasn't financially irresponsible enough".
    Hehe too true. So we talk about trying to help the economy and then having people pass bills filled with fiscally irresponsible crap we don't need? I don't care if you have a pretty "D" or "R" by your name they should have been ashamed. A bailout plan is an somewhat necessary evil to help, but do it right. It just shows me that no one really knows what's really going on and they're throwing spaghetti on the wall.

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    Is "throwing spaghetti on the wall" a reference to anything? Just curious, because about a decade ago some old friends actually did that in my parent's house while I and the rest were away. I had no idea at the time what could've brought on such an idea. Ended some friendships over it.

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    You throw a spaghetti straw on the wall to see if it sticks. If it does you know it's perfectly cooked... All i know

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    The people who are coaching Palin are the same people who've been running McCain's campaign, so... not so much.
    Oh c'mon, look what they have to work with. It's really hard to get a good solid render on him... I mean, his anatomy is all screwed up.

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    his arms dont raise over his head

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    But, what about someone who cooks the spaghetti, adds tomato sauce... and then throws it on the wall? And then sticks all the tea bags in the kitchen over it? Oh yeah, and it was shaped like a big smilie.

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    Here's a great New York Times article that predicts this economic crisis. Make sure to note the date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfood View Post
    Here's a great New York Times article that predicts this economic crisis. Make sure to note the date.
    Ahh yeah, I was actually looking for that article because the John and Ken show had mentioned it a few days ago saying it was nearly 10 years old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfood View Post
    Here's a great New York Times article that predicts this economic crisis. Make sure to note the date.
    There’s nothing wrong in lending to low and moderate income earners if they can afford the repayments. The idea of not penalising people for not being big earners was okay until it became the norm to lend to anyone regardless of ability to pay. Big difference. Also allowing self certified earning was always going head for a fall.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    But, what about someone who cooks the spaghetti, adds tomato sauce... and then throws it on the wall? And then sticks all the tea bags in the kitchen over it? Oh yeah, and it was shaped like a big smilie.
    I'd say that was creative.... but I probably wouldn't have let them live long.....

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  14. #222
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    I also remember something about testimony a while back from Democrats how this was a good thing (back when there was the housing bubble) so I find it particularly ironic when they start blaming the Republicans. I think both parties were enjoying the ride. The naysayers were few, and I believe came from both parties, but were ignored until too late.

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    I would read the wiki entry, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis which is being edited daily. Picking and choosing one thing or another courts confirmation bias. The wiki article is also probably skewed a bit, but at least it goes through some arguments and disagreements in some detail.

    Here an opinion of an economics professor named Ilian Mihov. Like every other rationale, this one sound plausible, until it starts seeming incomplete...

    The current crisis is driven by a combination of (interdependent) factors:


    1. Increase in productivity in China (from 2000 onwards) has increased world savings
    2. Increased world savings kept interest rates low, normally driving inflation, but unusual productivity increases in China kept inflation low
    3. Faced with low inflation the Fed was hesitant to raise interest rates (resulting in both low short and long term rates)
    4. Low (short and long term) rates led US consumers to borrow more (leading to the unsustainable consumption rate of 73% of total income in 2006 – which resulted in insufficient savings to make investments that generate future income to cover the increased liabilities / loans that underpin the increased consumption)
    5. Low borrowing costs (and the ability to reset your loan / mortgage at a low rate in 2-3 years time) led US consumers to borrow more, consume more or buy real estate, resulting in the house price bubble.
    6. House prices more than doubled from 2000-2006, growing unproportionally to income, allowing consumers to make returns on leveraged positions of more than 100% in one year. House prices will have to fall another ~23% to be back to the base level (relative to income per capita) of 2000, and are likely to fall beyond.
    7. Financial innovation allowed mortgages to be repackaged into mortgage backed securities and sold to other investors (with loans provided by the same bank, fuelling the bubble, but still clearing up the balance sheet of these banks).
    8. Credit rating agencies gave unrealistically high ratings to these CDOs
    9. In the mean time mortgages that were reset in 2007 (after 2-3 year fixed rate then switched to variable rate) could only be refinanced at high interest rates, leading to many consumers being unable to meet their interest payments and default
    10. Highly leveraged financial institutions (with leverage ratios of 40-50 in recent years), that typically face a mismatch between long term maturity assets and short term maturity liabilities, became significantly exposed as rising interest rates and falling house prices (and corresponding defaults) increased non performing loans for banks, while the price of mortgage backed securities started to fall –> leading the asset side of the balance sheet to shrink with increasing uncertainty as to whether the institution can meet its liabilities
    11. The possibility of failure makes banks more cautious and results in reduced lending activity to maintain liquidity (and more cautious in lending to other banks leading to a LIBOR rate of ~7% with a Fed rate of 2%!)
    12. Now borrowers are not able to get a loan to buy a house, leading to a further drop in house prices, driving a further shrinkage in assets, reducing further loan activity to keep up liquidity, etc… à a vicious cycle


    At least Icarus tried!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Spot View Post
    There’s nothing wrong in lending to low and moderate income earners if they can afford the repayments. The idea of not penalising people for not being big earners was okay until it became the norm to lend to anyone regardless of ability to pay. Big difference. Also allowing self certified earning was always going head for a fall.
    See, that's the whole crux; the CRA was fairly stable from inception in the 70's until it was expanded in the late 90's. There are a lot of indicators pointing to it actually boosting the housing bubble.

    And I agree about the wiki page, kev, but your noted entry starts after the fuse was already lit.

    It's funny, Arshes, how the majority of the population thinks this was started by the Republicans.

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  17. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfood View Post
    It's funny, Arshes, how the majority of the population thinks this was started by the Republicans.
    Yeah I think both parties were getting the benefits (like the DOT COMS!) and just looking to blame the other when the shit hit the fan. Gee with spaghetti on the wall and shit flinging, this is one stinky house.

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  18. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfood View Post
    See, that's the whole crux; the CRA was fairly stable from inception in the 70's until it was expanded in the late 90's. There are a lot of indicators pointing to it actually boosting the housing bubble.

    And I agree about the wiki page, kev, but your noted entry starts after the fuse was already lit.
    Right, I was using it as an example of stuff that sounds plausible at first as a "complete" rationale, (it does contain some good information) but then as you read it you realize it's been scrubbed of any dates prior to 2000 (the new political A.D. (Anno Diabolus, natch)

    Just to make a slight point, it was circulated approvingly through an email group of geneticists.

    Last edited by kev ferrara; October 2nd, 2008 at 09:31 PM.
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    9:30 I had to get away from the TV.

    I can't take her seriously.

    10:03: She seems to be doing a little better, but I can't shake the feeling like she studied all last night to learn all this stuff to pass today's big test.

    10:25: She's good with the rah rah, and seems to be relaxing as the debate goes on. But Biden choking up as he was talking about his sons... I don't know. For some reason that struck me very powerfully. And the way he composed himself afterward was admirable. I know he's a blowhard but I still like him.

    -------

    (Btw, for a very funny right-take on the debate see www.dailygut.com)

    Last edited by kev ferrara; October 2nd, 2008 at 10:27 PM.
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  21. #228
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    that is exactly what i was thinking

    dog gonnit?
    tappin', drillin', talkin', workin', goin', showin' , not hearin', fightin', producin' ? her idioms seem so forced

    Last edited by kingshaj; October 2nd, 2008 at 10:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    But, what about someone who cooks the spaghetti, adds tomato sauce... and then throws it on the wall? And then sticks all the tea bags in the kitchen over it? Oh yeah, and it was shaped like a big smilie.
    It's not spaghetti, it's linguine:



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    I think she did ok when she chose to answer the questions. I don't like the way she speaks to the American people. I don't want a hot hunting buddy up in the moose stand with me...I want a VP who can actually talk to the needs of the American people.

    The bar was so low...she did ok.

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    She didn't come off as a complete idiot, but pissed me off when she avoided answering direct questions. I give her points for not blowin' it.

    Biden didn't declare war on Japan, and didn't tell the Moderator to shove the chair up her butt. I give him points for that.

    He won. She lost. At least 2:1, possibly 3:1.

    Last edited by Ilaekae; October 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 PM.
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    meh... she was scary. Broken record all the way...

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    She literally starts, finishes and peppers her sentences with "also". Egads.

    Warning: do NOT play a drinking game with this word.

    Biden clearly won the debate at the point when describing the role of the Vice President (how it's defined via Article 1 of the Constitution). Something she could not (and did not) do. Actually, Biden won this thing clearly overall, but holy bejeezus, she's an idiot.

    ETA: She's a POWER HUNGRY idiot. Her answer to the question of "what the Vice President does" -

    PALIN: No, no. Of course, we know what a vice president does. And that's not only to preside over the Senate and will take that position very seriously also. I'm thankful the Constitution would allow a bit more authority given to the vice president if that vice president so chose to exert it in working with the Senate and making sure that we are supportive of the president's policies and making sure too that our president understands what our strengths are. John McCain and I have had good conversations about where I would lead with his agenda. That is energy independence in America and reform of government over all, and then working with families of children with special needs. That's near and dear to my heart also. In those arenas, John McCain has already tapped me and said, that's where I want you, I want you to lead. I said, I can't wait to get and there go to work with you.
    WTF?!?

    Last edited by smugbug; October 3rd, 2008 at 01:14 PM.
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    The debate left me more apathetic towards both parties. Not that I don't think Biden won the debate but I didn't feel anyone really addressed the issues, but I got a lot of great talking points. That doesn't mean the debate was without moments, but I feel it doesn't matter and the same old will keep going on.

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    the debate's structure was odd and facilitated the talking point style, more than the usual debate structure.

    but all American debates seem to devolve into soundbite ping-pong ...nothing new there.

    you betchya!

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    For those of you who haven't caught on yet, our little Cinderella from Alaska is setting up a run for the presidency in 2012/2016...

    We should all start checking on immigration quotas for US citizens coming into Canada and Europe before it's too late...

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    What this emphasized was that both sides use these high profile times to better craft their message and deliver what they want you to hear. The interesting bits are when the opposing side tosses counter points that are usually half-truths.

    It's still all just a popularity contest, based far more on how a candidate delivers a message than what the message actually is and of course almost not at all on whether the position has any merit past the first degree of effect (and sometimes not even that).

    Biden's simple ability to affect gravitas in addition to various smiles has to edge him over Palin's low contrast degrees of confident cheerleader-ness (the kind when you're down 21-3 at the half, and the unfettered perkiness from the pom-poms starts to annoy you; "Don't you realize we're losing?! Stop smiling and let us know you understand the situation!")

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    ...Pom-Poms...drooooollllll...

    This entire election/political period is guaranteed to insure the fortunes of at least two segments of the economy...

    Never has the potential prospects for being an Editorial Cartoonist or a standup comedian looked so bright...

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    never has laughing seemed such a small consolation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaekae View Post
    For those of you who haven't caught on yet, our little Cinderella from Alaska is setting up a run for the presidency in 2012/2016...
    For those of you who don't understand politicians.. Everybody is setting up a run for the presidency in 2012/2016. Including politicians who will be dead or in jail or both.

    At least Icarus tried!


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