Sarah Palin follow-up

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  1. #1
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    Sarah Palin follow-up

    If the other Palin bookbanning thread hadn't been closed this would go there. Anyways, figured we ought to take a look at this from a source that seems to be giving both sides of the issue and working to keep facts straight on the internet.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp

    Taylor Griffin, a spokesman for the McCain campaign, said that Palin asked the head librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, on three occasions how she would react to attempts at banning books. He said the questions, in the fall of 1996, were hypothetical and entirely appropriate. He said a patron had asked the library to remove a title the year before and the mayor wanted to understand how such disputes were handled.
    While there are a lot of issues circling this election I think that what we have here is similar to pointing out Obama's not wearing flag pins, not covering his heart durring the National Anthem, interesting middle name, and weird pastor. As far as I can tell its a mudslinging maneuver to attack character and keep the election away from issues.

    (BTW, Sorry that I got off topic enough to close down the other thread)

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  3. #2
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    We all know the list is a lie. The question is: Why won't she, and hasn't she so far, identified the books in question? It would certainly make her life a lot easier, wouldn't it? Or is that too hard for an intelligent, well-rounded vice presidential candidate with no personal agenda and nothing to hide to understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaekae View Post
    Or is that too hard for an intelligent, well-rounded vice presidential candidate with no personal agenda and nothing to hide to understand?
    Who?! Where?!
    I heard of those once in a book...

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    Now now... Don't be a smart-ass...




    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

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    Maybe she doesn't even remember? If the issue was about a library patron wanting to have books removed from the library and Palin's reason for having any interest in the 1st place was because she was curious about how the librarian would handle those types of things then she may have not even have checked on what the books were but just wanted to know how a city institution handles those types of dilemmas.

    That could be one of many reasons. Whatever the case it seems to me that people are splitting hairs here so as to turn this into something that it very likely is not.

    Barak Obama said it best:
    "Look, in the internet age, there are lies that are going to be spread all over the place. (...) Fortunately the American people are, I think, smarter than folks give them credit for."


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    You're forgetting the rather important detail that following Palin's 'hypothetical' requests to ban books, and the librarian's refusal, Palin tried to fire the librarian because Palin didn't think the librarian fully supported her agenda. The librarian did not loose her job because of a rather vociferous public outcry the next day.

    You know, I'm sorry if you think people who think this is outrageous are splitting hairs or spinning the deal, but the fact that the librarian's job was in jeopardy speaks volumes. Moreover, as one artist to another: you just don't screw around as an elected public official floating hypotheticals about violating the First Amendment. You would think Palin would have heard of the First Amendment. It's the one that comes before her beloved Second Amendment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jaecks View Post
    You're forgetting the rather important detail that following Palin's 'hypothetical' requests to ban books, and the librarian's refusal, Palin tried to fire the librarian because Palin didn't think the librarian fully supported her agenda. The librarian did not loose her job because of a rather vociferous public outcry the next day.

    You know, I'm sorry if you think people who think this is outrageous are splitting hairs or spinning the deal, but the fact that the librarian's job was in jeopardy speaks volumes. Moreover, as one artist to another: you just don't screw around as an elected public official floating hypotheticals about violating the First Amendment. You would think Palin would have heard of the First Amendment. It's the one that comes before her beloved Second Amendment.
    Actually read what it is that I said. According to her campaign, Palin did NOT ask her to remove books from the Library, hypothetically or otherwise. She simply referred to a Patron who had asked that such an action be made and asked how the library handled those types of things.

    It is an interesting question to ask; what would a library do to avoid removing books from its shelves and the same time not piss off their patronage? Considering that libraries don't bring in a large profit from book late fees causing a major patron to drop funding could put the library into quite a bind.

    If that is the case then this is not an issue about her wanting to ban books but facing a difficult choice when it came to a public institution in the small town where she was trying to get elected.

    While it is easy to assume that his was the reason she wanted the librarian fired I think that making such an assumption may be jumping to conclusions.

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    MJ:
    thinking between the lines its hard to suss out what
    could be gained for her agenda (whatever it may be) by banning these works.

    pandering to the religious right? (doubt they are aware enough of Burgess or Vonnegut for that to be effective. there certainly was a time where a bit of social control could be gained by limiting information accessible to the masses...i think the internet (unchecked) makes that a thing of the past.


    on the other hand .... the irony is that many of these books are already banned, or were off and on, in this country. but are available at any Barnes and noble, or in some cases are required reading in certain schools.

    "Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain, have been banned for a long long time.
    did get me out of doing a report on them, sigh .

    but i am completely with you in spirit MJ
    and we should watch these folks carefully ...banning books is no joke.



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    Quote Originally Posted by kingshaj View Post
    but i am completely with you in spirit MJ
    and we should watch these folks carefully ...banning books is no joke.
    But she did not ban any books.

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    "we should watch these folks carefully" yes?

    side note: ( unrelated to palin )

    among the most banned books of the past. (USA):

    The Catcher in the Rye, Alice Walker’s The Color Purple, Madeleine L’Engle’s A Wrinkle in Time series, Maurice Sendak’s In the Night’s Kitchen, Harper Lee’s To Kill a Mockingbird, Shel Silverstein’s A Light in the Attic, and Roald Dahl’s James and the Giant Peach.

    currently banned:
    Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson...lol?

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    Barak Obama said it best:

    Quote:
    "Look, in the internet age, there are lies that are going to be spread all over the place. (...) Fortunately the American people are, I think, smarter than folks give them credit for."


    And he's wrong once again.

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    Peter, (Totally related to Palin) she asked THREE times about banning books. We all know she didn't ban any books. Go back and reread my question on the matter and drop this defending Palin at any expense bullshit. She is a fundamentalist pentecostal Christian, a rather narrow-minded group who have a long history of banning books that they disagree with for racial, sexual, or political reasons. The other attribute they all traditionally have is lying through their fucking teeth when they get caught in the cookie jar...

    So quit stretching and let it sleep...

    Oh, and before this gets closed down, too, here's a real picture of our fav VP candidate--definitely released by her family. The Tee reads, "I may be broke, but I'm not flat busted." Cute...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaekae View Post
    She is a fundamentalist pentecostal Christian, a rather narrow-minded group who have a long history of banning books that they disagree with for racial, sexual, or political reasons. The other attribute they all traditionally have is lying through their fucking teeth when they get caught in the cookie jar...
    I find that comment to be very offensive and prejudiced and would appreciate it if you not base your arguments in religious intolerance.

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    You might be right here...

    I apologize for the second sentence--even I would call that intolerent.

    I DO NOT apologize for the first sentence because it's a provable (and proven) statement of fact.

    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary
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    "Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
    Kurt Vonnegut" ....subsequently banned by the x-tian right ..lol



    -

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaekae View Post
    I DO NOT apologize for the first sentence because it's a provable (and proven) statement of fact.
    Thats fine, those representing her have stated that she asked about what the library's policy was regaurding a patron trying to control the books on the library's shelves. Such could be read as "asking about banning books."

    As such we still have no reason to beleive that she ever intended to have books banned from the library, and the position given by representatives of the Cheney/Palin campaign is that she did not.

    At this point it boils down to a "uh huh! nuh-uh!" argument that nobody can prove or disprove because only Palin and the Librarian know ecactly what was really said, and only Palin knows what was going on in that head of hers. It does, however, make a distraction from the issues at hand and is a wonderful little tool for mudslinging, just like crazy preachers and swiftboats.

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    Roald Dahl’s James and the Giant Peach - just in defence of banning this, in the Slovak language, peach is the absolute worst swear word you can possibly say.

    It makes it much more difficult to teach these words in my English courses:
    pitcher
    picture
    Machupichu
    Pikachu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    Actually read what it is that I said. According to her campaign, Palin did NOT ask her to remove books from the Library, hypothetically or otherwise. She simply referred to a Patron who had asked that such an action be made and asked how the library handled those types of things.

    It is an interesting question to ask; what would a library do to avoid removing books from its shelves and the same time not piss off their patronage? Considering that libraries don't bring in a large profit from book late fees causing a major patron to drop funding could put the library into quite a bind.

    If that is the case then this is not an issue about her wanting to ban books but facing a difficult choice when it came to a public institution in the small town where she was trying to get elected.

    While it is easy to assume that his was the reason she wanted the librarian fired I think that making such an assumption may be jumping to conclusions.
    I did read what you said. Did you expect the Palin campaign to come out and say post facto: "Oh yeah, we were trying to ban some books!" ? ...Please.

    No, it's not really an "interesting" question you bring up. It's an ugly, unconstitutional question. Moreover, the library is public, not private. It receives public money, most likely Federal, just like the rest of the state does. Alaska is one of the most heavily subsidized states by the Federal Government. There would be no 'bind' created by a pissed off private citizen. Now who's jumping to (unlikely) conclusions?

    Moreover, considering it was the public outcry of the town of Wasilla that stopped the librarian's termination, I really don't think Palin's motivation was fear of not getting re-elected. (Again, your illogical hypotheticals are grasping for straws.)

    It's easy for me to "jump" to my own conclusion because it's the most logical one based on the available evidence. Palin wanted to ban books starting in October 1996, by January 1997, she was trying to fire the librarian and stopped only by protests from the public. Because it would be ridiculous to think that Palin would actually come out in public and admit she was trying to violate the First Amendment, we need to use some common sense to arrive at a conclusion. My conclusion is the logical one. Yours are silly and rather apologetic on behalf of Palin.

    Don't pretend to think you're operating without a bias in this argument. Your attempts to give Palin the benefit of the doubt are really, really reaching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    At this point it boils down to a "uh huh! nuh-uh!" argument that nobody can prove or disprove because only Palin and the Librarian know ecactly what was really said, and only Palin knows what was going on in that head of hers. It does, however, make a distraction from the issues at hand and is a wonderful little tool for mudslinging, just like crazy preachers and swiftboats.
    Lumping together Reverend Wright, Kerry's flip-flopping and Palin's desire to remove some books from a public library is poor critical thinking.

    Attending any church is protected by the First Amendment. It may look politically unattractive to do so, but if Obama wanted to sit in the first seat of the first pew of Reverend Wright's church every Sunday for the last 40 years, he is entitled to that right by the Constitution.

    If John Kerry wanted to change his mind fifty times before making a vote, that's his right as well. Politically questionable, certainly. But still his right.

    Sarah Palin is not entitled to remove a single page from any book in a public library as an elected public offical. That would be illegal and a violation of the Constitution.

    The issues are fundamentally different at their core and the public is completely entitled to be concerned with the actions Sarah Palin took and tried to take as Mayor.

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