Sketchbook: Dahami's Reptoids and Aliens - Page 20
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  1. #571
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    Any chance you are going to do a full body of the "White King" reptilian?

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  2. #572
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    Using reference, and lots of messing around in Photoshop, I created a new torso for Iyano. I think the shape of the neck muscles and pectorals is much better on this one. Human anatomy is challenging, and Iyano's anatomy is basically human, except reptilians don't have nipples or a navel.

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  3. #573
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    "Human anatomy is challenging"

    Tell me about it. Personally hands are the most difficult to draw. BTW, did you get my last question?

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  4. #574
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    xenoart5, I would like to do a full body for the White King. He has some interesting features, such as vestigial wings, which consist of what appears to be about half a dozen flesh covered spines projecting from each side of his back, based on Simon's sketches. At the very least I will add scales to my portrait of him. Time will tell.

    Continuing to work with Iyano. I still don't know what I'm going to do with his arms. Should he be posed? Holding something? I'm trying to keep it simple and just get the anatomy right. This is kind of a redo of Chan Johnson's drawing of Iyano from over a decade ago. The hands have three fingers and a thumb with webbing out to the first knuckle, and claws. The main thing I want to figure out right now is how to represent his breastplate. It's been years since anyone has seen Iyano in the flesh, as far as we know, and some of the details are hard to pin down.

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  5. #575
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    do they actually have essentially Homo Sapien musculature and skeletons or is that an artefact of witnesses not being able to remember that much detail?

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  6. #576
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    Velocity Kendall, Iyano's musculature and skeletal structure is very human in appearance. He's like a tall, well proportioned human with scales and a lizardy looking head on top. He may have some human DNA in him. To the best of everyone's perceptions and recollection, Iyano does not have a tail.

    Here are three interpretations of a new reptilian with a long snout. This one had a long tail. I'm trying to create a drawing that the witness will deem accurate enough to use as a starting point for a digital painting.

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  7. #577
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    Its very interesting. assuming the reports are accurate, theyve somehow managed to incorporate the musculature and skeleton of a plains ape into a reptile form. Id love to hear speculations on the motives for that.
    Tool use? Use as a terror weapon? Ability to wear disguses and pass unnoticed as in the movie The Arrival? Fascinating stuff.

    Also many of the reptilians appear to be smiling ina friendly way; is this actually an expression or just the way the face is structured? Do the witnesses report the creatures use facial expression as a form of communiaction? that would be truly terrifying!

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  8. #578
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    I don't think they are smiling. It seems to me that it has to do with the way Dahami draws a curving mouth line of a slightly downward snout.

    As for the musculature...well, it does seem kind of strange, but I usually attribute such things to the tendency of most observers to associate the object they see with the closest familiar shape.

    But to be a devil's advocate, while I'm not by any means an expert in anatomy of living organisms, there do seem to be some "universal" muscle structures in all beings with arms and legs. For example if you look at the leg of a Tyrannosaurus (at least the way they reconstruct their muscles in illustrations, movies, museums etc.), you'll see familiar muscles that human legs have, a knee similar to a human knee etc. The only thing that differs are proportions of muscles. This is the unlikely part; I don't find it that strange that a humanoid being would have the same set of muscles as a human being, what I would find strange is if they would be in the same proportions as a human being.

    Last edited by skishyish; December 9th, 2012 at 08:53 PM.
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  9. #579
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    @Dahami

    Simon Parkes has been interacting with members here. Guests can read all posts.
    I guess you know this already.
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...d-other-aliens.

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  10. #580
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    Velocity Kendall, I think convergent evolution is a more powerful and prevalent force than most people realize, even among evolutionary biologists and astrobiologists. I came to that conclusion after looking at several striking examples of convergent evolution (Wikipedia is good for that) and, of course, trying to account for the humanoid descriptions of UFO occupants. Muscles and muscle groups depend on the underlying skeleton, as well as the animal's required range of motion. There are many factors at play that affect each other in a kind of feedback, and overall these act as constraints, in accordance with the principle that form follows function. That's only part of the explanation, however. I think humans have a history with these beings. Not just with reptilians, but with many types of UFO occupants. Perhaps they have influenced our evolution, and our genetic material has influenced theirs. It's hard to get away from that conclusion given the prevalence of reports of hybridization, cross-breeding, or transgenics scenarios. So combine convergent evolution, with some degree of past genetic exchange, and perhaps other factors we aren't aware of yet, and you may have an explanation for why some reptilians have a human-appearing skeletal and muscular system. I think of Earth's humans as kind of the wild-stock humanoids, that are visited periodically by compatible bipeds seeking a genetic pick-me-up for their species.

    skishyish, In fantasy we have orcs, goblins, trolls and other creatures that often have a human-like skeletal and muscular system, but with proportions exaggerated or altered as you suggest. I think if conditions were right, the lifestyle of the organism was right, etc. such forms could work in the real world. So why are reptilians like Iyano so close to human? Beyond what I've said above, I don't know. Ultimately, all we have is speculation and educated guesses. Iyano does seem to be a shapeshifter, having initially appeared in the form of a luminous, somewhat amorphous energy being, then as a gorgeous blond man, and finally, when the witness asked to see what he really looks like, in reptilian form. How much of shapeshifting is illusion and how much is physical remains an unanswered question.

    As for the smiles... Have you ever looked face-on at a leopard gecko? A lot of Earth's snakes and lizards have a fixed smile. It doesn't express real emotion, however. There's been some debate about whether reptoids have emotions or not, and I think it largely comes down to semantics. They definitely have different feelings, states, or attitudes they project, and people call these anger, delight, love, etc... Some have an ability to express recognizable human-like emotion through their facial muscles. The term "lizard man" is very apt, as they are much like humans with lizard skin and lizard features. My secondary witness to Iyano tells me "Iyano is a man." In order to draw him correctly I need to think of him as a human being.

    As an artist I try to convey the sense of likableness or friendliness people feel from some reptilians with a smile. When I'm trying to convey a sense of menace I try to make it look like the being is not smiling, which may involve subtle tweaks to the corners of the mouth or shape of the brow ridge. My primary interest, of course, is getting the anatomical details correct, but when presenting a specific being or encounter, conveying a sense of the being's perceived demeanor or intent is also necessary. The Chukara reptilians were fond of showing their teeth, as kind of an intimidation factor. Simon Parkes, btw, has noted that reptilians can scowl or display a toothy grin, depending on the attitude they wish to project, which is often an aspect of ceremony for them.

    I made several adjustments to the size and shape of Iyano's head in this version based on input from the secondary witness, who has seen Iyano in his mind's eye, and in a transparent form, which may be sort of an interdimensional state. I also made his colors a little bit darker and duller. I'm still trying to figure out what his breastplate looks like. Reportedly, it is more like an armored crocodile's belly than like a solid turtle shell, but I don't know if it has any actual scales or plates visible, or if it's one single piece of thick hide, perhaps with a sense of horizontal fibers or something to it. He still needs hands of course. More to come.

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  11. #581
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    This shows my back and forth with the witness who helped with this adjustment of the size and shape of Iyano's head. I was reluctant to take it too far in any one step. Thanks for your patience with me.

    Of course, I'm still not certain we've got it exactly right, but we're closing in on him. Thank you Iyano for your cooperation.

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  12. #582
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    interesting as always.
    I certainly agree convergent evolution is a powerful force, witness the ichthyosaur, the dolphin and the baracuda.
    im less convinced about this being the case with humans; even our recent ancestors are quite unlike us, and other primates are significantly different in their proportions. humans have not been around very long and many health problems result from our bipedalism; for example lower back problems in a spine evolved until recently for walking on all fours. i find it very difficult to really believe in the idea of reptile man identical to us except that they have no visible genitals, a reptilian face and green skin. i always get the feeling, and weve talked about this before, that the aliens seen are merely avatars for some other agency. the greys are often discribed as biological robots, and these insane looking reptile men, and the mantis creatures, seem to be from the same imagination.
    given the infinite possible forms life Out There could take, from intelligent machines to eusocial insects to squidoids to intelligent atmospheric turbulence to.. who knows, the fact that They look so very much like us strikes me as a front or user interface for something else.

    reptiles have very different physiology, but are first cousins compared to organisms that evolved on other worlds which would likely be more different from us than we are from archea. ie their basic programming language would be different. we know already that there are amino acid bases that no terrestrial organism uses that can store information in DNA replicators. assuming they use DNA at all, ie that DNA is an attractor in the chemical systems on planets like the early earth, trying to splice dna from us to them might be like trying to make an iphone run a copy of civilisation on a 3.5 inch disc. it would certainly require a lot of tweaking, which begs the question of why they cant just do all this stuff with nanotechnology or something.

    the other thing is they have covered the tracks of their tampering with our DNA well; we have a fairly detailed history of our DNA back to the Cambrian, becuase it is recorded in the structure of the genome. It is a long and extremely interesting tail, but at every turn its evolution has been random.
    its the same argument that for me at least, removes the need for a god in our universe; everything we see is satisfactorily explained by the laws of nature and doesnt require any ulterior agency.
    that said, star faring races would be clever and therefore adept at hiding their tracks.

    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; December 12th, 2012 at 04:10 PM.
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  13. #583
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    Velocity Kendall, Convergent evolution can work even at the level of molecules. I recall a case where two unrelated plant species living on different continents both developed the same complex molecule as a toxin to fend off predation. There is a larger question regarding alien biochemistry, whether extraterrestrials would also use the same forms of DNA and RNA, differences in the genetic code, the chirality of organic molecules, etc... It seems that extraterrestrial life forms could differ from earthly life in many ways. At least, given our limited knowledge, it seems plausible that other kinds of life might be viable. Then you get back to the question of whether such different sorts of life forms would be capable of building starships or entering Earth's environment, at least on a temporary basis. Perhaps there is a selection effect, such that the UFOs we see in our skies, and the UFO occupants we see on the ground, are all of a very earthly type of life form. The exotic types are visiting their counterparts on distant icy planets, or in gaseous nebulae.

    Then of course, there is the possibility that the UFO phenomenon originates from Earth's future, or some civilization from our distant past that developed time travel, if there was a preceding technolgical civilization whose artifacts have disappeared over the eons. Or they could be from a parallel timeline, a parallel version of Earth. Or perhaps they are cryptoterrestrials, who live on or inside the Earth right now, but are somehow hidden from us, and very secretive. Or it could be something "interdimensional" in the sense that they come from a different kind of reality than ours, or another plane of existence, perhaps with some differences in its underlying physics. Perhaps it's all of the above and more. As you suggested, it also seems possible that the forms they use when entering our world are forms that are in some way derived from the native inhabitants of our world. So perhaps a lizard man really is a lizard man. I've certainly heard it suggested that the Grays, in some cases, are like a suit that some form of spiritual or higher-dimensional intelligence uses to interact physically in our environment. There are many possibilities, and I don't know enough to close off any of them. I shall continue to speculate about the things I don't know, and learn what I can from the experiencers.

    Regarding nanotechnology, I think they do use that, and there are a lot of things they can do with it. The subject of alien implants, be they tracking nodes, devices the monitor health or body chemistry, transceivers, immune system enhancements, or means of modifying behavior, come to mind when one speaks of nanotechnology. Implants are subtle, in that they're generally not shiny metal objects with blinking lights. We still need to learn more in order to know what we are looking at. There is also the nanotechnology that we can't see. It has been suggested that the hybridization program is actually a "hyper-hybridization" program, because it involves translating between different genetic codes, if indeed "their" genetic code is in any way different from our genetic code. Could nanotechnology be involved in that process? I think there is technology operating on Earth and in the skies that is not ours, but for the most part, we don't recognize it for what it is, or it manages to escape our attention. Part of the problem is that it is designed to escape our attention, and the other part is we just haven't been very attentive. We have a lot to learn, and it's going to require a good dose of intellectual humility for us to learn it.

    On a related note, did they intervene with the human genome, and/or the genomes of our pre-human ancestors, at various times in the past? If they did, did they deliberately cover their tracks, or is the real problem that our geneticists don't know what to look for and haven't been paid to look? Perhaps the first bona fide discovery of a marker of past alien genetic intervention will come about by accident, when our technologies reach a certain point. Some day, maybe some scientist doing drug-related research for a pharmaceutical company will discover something she didn't expect to find. If there is a breakaway civilization hidden within the military-industrial complex, as a number of people's experiences suggest, then perhaps they have already made such a discovery.

    I should note, I don't think that alien intervention is in any way required to explain human evolution or the evolution of any other species. I came to the possibility of intervention purely from the UFO contact angle. Aliens keep hinting (sometimes more than hinting) that they had something to do with our evolution. I won't believe it 100% until (hypothetically) our own science confirms it. Aliens have been known to deceive in the past. The Grays do it all the time, typically for what appear to be pragmatic reasons.

    Why do experiencers report giant praying mantises (usually bipedal), muscular lizard men, small gray beings, and handsome Nordics? It's kind of an embarrassment to the UFO researcher, in the sense that this is not what most astrobiologists expect extraterrestrials to look like, and the extraterrestrial hypothesis is the only explanation conservative enough for people who don't buy more exotic notions.

    I will say, the whole phenomenon smacks of plausible deniability. Pretty much every contact case could be passed off as a hoax, delusion, fantasy, misperception, sleep paralysis, etc... But only if you find the contrived explanations of skeptics more convincing than the testimony of experiencers, and only if you ignore or attempt to explain away the common threads that are repeated again and again through the individually diverse and varied reports. Among those who have actually taken the time to know the experiencers, and get a feel for who they are, few come away believing that they are lying or delusional. It does take a certain humility, and willingness to listen, in order to get to know these people. Unfortunately such humility is sometimes lacking in mainstream scientists, and the dissonance between people's actual reports and the scientists' expectations can get in the way. There are also people's fears about being judged by their peers for looking at a subject that they believe carries a stigma. Things are changing, though. The starseeds (whether they really have alien connections or not) are growing up and taking their places in society. People are becoming more accepting of anomalous experience. The dam will not hold forever. The Arab Spring started when a single man set himself on fire, in just the right place at just the right time, and that changed history forever. Perhaps there will be a single UFO event, contact case, or a single scientist who takes a stand, and that will change the way our society deals with the subject of UFOs and alien contact forever.

    But I digress...

    I took this photo of an alligator lizard in Carmel Valley, California in 2002. The primary witness to Iyano says the small mesh-like scales on its sides resemble the texture of the natural armor that covers Iyano's chest. Apparently the skin there is tough, but flexible. She also found a photo of a lean body-builder whose pectorals were rippling under the skin, creating the appearance of tight horizontal fibers going across his chest. I shall try to combine these two effects for Iyano's breastplate. I also wanted to mention her impression that Iyano's head and cranium look a little too small in my latest version, which was an experiment based on testimony from the secondary witness, who saw Iyano from a different angle. Further revisions to come. We're kind of building a consensus. We're sure they've both seen Iyano (as sure as you can be with this kind of thing) so we think we can do it.

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  14. #584
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    man i love it when you digress!!

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  15. #585
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    Thanks Velocity Kendall.

    Revisiting this one. His face somewhat resembles a Komodo dragon. He doesn't really have cheek bones as we know them. It's a much more elongated snout than most of the reptilian cases I get. The eyes are also quite small. Reportedly the planet he comes from is very bright. He has a long, powerful tail that he carries above the ground. To quote the witness regarding the tail, "That thing is wicked." It can get in the way in enclosed spaces.

    I drew one drawing, but it was a bit lopsided, so I mirrored it in Photoshop, did some tweaks with the Warp Tool, which I'm using much more often these days (thank you VC), and turned it into two faces. The main problem with that technique is the scale pattern at the center line would need to be reworked to make it look right.

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  16. #586
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    Though convergent evolution may be a factor, ultimately its the environment that shapes the organism through natural selection. Something that labels this best for humans is an episode of the Discovery Channel series Curiosity titled "Mankind Rising".

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  17. #587
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    An organism being shaped by natural selection is what evolution is.
    Convergent evolution is when a particular solution is arrived at by different organisms, for example the shapes of dolphins, fish and aquatic dinosaurs, resulting in animals with similar features that are unrelated.
    Each organism has evolved in the same environment as part of roughly similar ecosystems, and occupied a particular niche in those ecosystems. In the case of dolphins, icthyosaurs and baracudas, that niche is the fast predator of small fish. Hence they were all under similar selection pressures, leading to superficially similar shapes. However under their skin they are extremely different.

    Some features have evolved many times, for example wings or eyes.

    The fact that no other organisms (that we have samples of) outside our own immediate genetic family have arrived at the solution of 5.5 foot tall bipedal humanoid suggests it is not a particularly efficient or successful design in the long term. Contrast it to the small insectoid form which has evolved lots of times and persisted accross geological ages, for example.

    However the thing that really defines humans in my opinion isnt our bodies but our imaginations. Our ability to learn and plan for the future is vastly more complex and powerful than any of our fellow animals.
    This does not mean we are the crown of creation, simply that in our evolutionary history traits of high intelligence lead to survival benefits.

    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; December 14th, 2012 at 01:56 PM.
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    @ Dahami

    I recently came across this interesting website called Alien Doodles.com. Its pretty much about an abductee's experience with several alien species and the drawings of his experiences and the aliens he encountered (which are very good). There hasn't been any activity on the site for a while but if you can somehow contact him, you might gets some interesting inspiration for your drawings (http://www.aliendoodles.com/). BTW, there's even a section on the website called Dream Worlds where he talks about (a gives some drawings of) the home worlds of some of these alien beings (http://www.aliendoodles.com/dreamworlds.htm) and his depictions of the mantis being he encounters are probably the most interesting I've seen by far (http://www.aliendoodles.com/thegallery.htm).

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  19. #589
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    Wow, I just got to say, you have some strong commitment man.

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    Convergent evolution is basically natural selection acting to produce similar results in similar environments for organisms that have similar lifestyles. There are only a finite number of solutions to particular survival challenges, such as moving about, or finding food, that will work in a particular set of circumstances, and this is why similar sensory organs, body plans, behaviors, etc. arise repeatedly in the history of life. When we talk about beings from elsewhere in the universe/multiverse, who are able to come here and function in our environment, and who have some interest in interacting with humans, you already have a certain set of constraints in place, and I think this has something to do with why the UFO occupants that show up in people's lives tend to be humanoid. That's only part of the answer, of course. Science will eventually find the rest of the answer, once it is set free from limiting dogmas such as "you can't get here from there", etc...

    xenoart5, I'm very familiar with Martin Doolittle and I greatly admire his illustrations. I used to interact with him at Whitley Strieber's discussion board quite frequently.

    PeteJ, Thank you very much. That is actually very encouraging. I have to still convince myself of how committed I am to this work sometimes.

    Latest on Iyano. I added lots of little scales to his chest, to simulate the small "mesh-like" scales on the side of the alligator lizard. There is more to be done with lighting, shading and coloration. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with his hands. I also resized the head. I'll get impressions from my witnesses and see where to take things from here.

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    Firstly, good to hear from you again and great progress on Iyano's body. Secondly, a couple questions. Did you find Martin Doolittle to be credible (some of the experiences he describes sound pretty hard to make up, especially the Home-worlds), and do you happen to know why he hasn't updated his website in a while because his last update was around three years ago.

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    xenoart5, Martin Doolittle is as credible as they come. Of course, that's not his real name, because like many abductees, he has a "normal life" to live as well, which probably has something to do with the lack of recent site updates. He did contribute some art to Kim Carlsberg's The Art of Close Encounters, and included stories of the associated encounters/memories.

    The reptilian ambassador with the lightning-strike pupils, profile, work in progress.

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    More progress on Iyano. New and improved. Now with hands! More changes to come.

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    The White King, full body, preliminary. He is thickly built with sharply defined muscles. Simon finds it difficult to determine height when he's in their world, but his estimate is ~9 ft. tall. Whatever the case, this guy is big and powerful. I still need to add scales and vestigial wings (the flesh-covered spines that extend from his back).

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    Can't wait to see the finished product .

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    Ah, when you made his belly muscles less visible, it made the whole figure much easier to swallow, it looks less human now. Also, I realized that it has a lot to do with proportions. Even if all the muscles in his body are identical, different proportions can make the body look more alien (an example of this is Vectra, Captain and your early reptoid drawings.)

    By the way, has she ever seen him naked (Iyano)?

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  27. #597
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    Dahami

    Are you still alive?

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  28. #598
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    Did this site get blocked for anyone else besides me?

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  29. #599
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    It did, for me too, but it's ok now

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  30. #600
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    What happened to Dahami?

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