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Thread: Another Classical Atelier Thread

  1. #91
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    Dominator: okay, I see!

    lowebo: I'm not sure what you mean, do you mean soft and sharp edges?. getting soft and sharp edges in a drawing is very important to create depth. What you have to do is just make an edge more or less broken up, if it's too sharp, make it fade more, if it's too soft, erase the blurry part.

    Here's a small update with a quick(er) cast drawing I did at the National Museum in Stockholm. I went there four times and spent two to four hours each time. It turned out okay, but after all the charcoal work I've done in school, I'm really spoiled with how the charcoal handles. Pencil is so much more permanent, and charcoal is easier to move around. Ah well..

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    waw , you have brought our eyes some really nice stuff from your atelier , i noticed in particular the "hard worked" drawings , from what i see you must spend lots of time and concentration on those , what is the main goal of making a drawing like that?

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    Serpian, looks fantastic as usual! Why did you choose to use pencil on these and not charcoal? Was it a matter of convenience since you were out on location or more as a means of being proficient in many mediums?

    Do you think you would have been able to complete more of the drawing in the same amount of time had you used charcoal?

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    Serpian, I just went back and re-read this thread and wrote down a bunch of points.

    The first bargue you did took you a week, then you moved to the leg which I'm uncertain how long that actually took?

    The looser Bargue figure copies took 14 days at one per day.

    Your Belvedere bust took a 1.5 months to complete and your instructor threatened to sever your penis as punishment, so I'm assuming ideally that should be completed within a month's time

    Now about the cast drawings, besides the museum cast of the discus man, how long did it take to complete each one? What were the deadlines for each drawing?

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  5. #95
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    Thanks, guys!

    Giorge, the main goal of our very finished drawings is to really understand the form, lighting, etc. While quick sketches are good for practicing getting proportions right quickly, getting a high finish makes us know what goes into that finished look, how to portray different materials and so on. When you truly understand how to make an object look 3D, you can do it quicker and quicker.

    dominator, the reason for using pencil was simply that this was a small drawing in my sketchbook. Using charcoal there would be impossible if I didn't finish the drawing in one sitting and sprayed fixative on it before closing the sketchbook. Also, at the small size i was working (the drawing is little over 20cm high), I couldn't have been as detailed with charcoal. Finally, I'm not even sure charcoal is allowed in the museum, since it's a pretty messy business.

    I can't remember exactly how long the first cast took me, but I'd say over a month. The one I'm working on right now I've been doing over two months, but I didn't really work on it full time in the beginning. It should be finished this Monday or Tuesday. You could do these much quicker, if you're good enough. One of my fellow students just races through his assignments, and is already on his second cast with charcoal and chalk on toned paper. And his finished drawings don't look any worse than any of mine. He's just quicker than me.

    But since the purpose of these exercises isn't to hit a deadline for a publisher, they should take as long as it takes. Unless you spend twenty years on one, of course. Then maybe you should try another one..

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    Serpian, how difficult was it to get in? I'm going to apply there from Los Angeles, California. My second option is in Oregon and I would much rather be in Stockholm. Is the school very close to public transportation like a metro?

    Following your progress and your helpful, open attitude has galvanized me to enter atelier. I understand that English is widely spoken in Stockholm, so would I have much difficulty being involved in Swedish culture if I don't speak Swedish so well?

    Also, do you study anatomy / ecorche there?

    I'm eagerly awaiting new updates from you! By the way, I bought the Bargue book so I'll be working to sharpen my skills before paying you fine Swedes a visit

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    dominator, I can't tell you how difficult it was to get in, because I just submitted my portfolio and got an e-mail saying I had been accepted a few weeks later. I think really as long as you seem to have the right attitude and there are free spots it's pretty easy. Just show them what they want to see in the portfolio . You'd manage fine with English, both Stockholm and this school are very international. Right now there are students from Sweden, Scotland, France, Switzerland and Denmark studying here, and one of the teachers is American; most of the education is in English. And the public transport system of Stockholm is excellent, if maybe a bit expensive depending on how much you use it. We don't study anatomy as part of the curriculum, although we have had some short lectures on it, discussing why anatomy is good to know and so forth, but the studying itself has to be done on your own time.

    If you really want to come here, I'd recommend e-mailing the teachers right away and say you're interested and ask any questions you might have, because they're going to move location for the next semester, and might even reduce the size of the student body. So it's good for them to know how many students are going to be there this fall. Sadly, as I've mentioned, I will not.

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    Thanks man! I sent an e-mail about 2 days ago now, just waiting to hear back. Do you start painting at all in the first year or is it strictly drawing? Keep updating! I love seeing your progress!

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    You progress at your own speed, but you can probably count on getting to painting sometime in the second year. Of course, you can alway paint your own things on your own time to prepare...

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    Really helpful things you are sharing with us. Thank you very much.

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    Beethoven! Finished! And details!

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  12. #102
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    Now that's purdy!



    Love the depth, love the texture, solid shading, good transitions.

    Nailed it!

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    Kicking ass and taking names, Serpian

    Hey I found those charcoals you use at the local art store for $2 a pop. Is that what you used on this cast drawing?? How much longer are you going to be in atelier?

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    Great u completed ur beethoven....Great rendering and form. When are u moving to painting?

    Keep it up !!

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  15. #105
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    Hey, all my attachments are showing up as clickable thumbnails! Is this happening to you guys too? I want them big!

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  16. #106
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    Thumbnails

    It's happening to me too. It's kind of nice on my iPhone, but it's really frustrating when I look at it on my actual computer.

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    It isn't happening to me.. (using Firefox). great work Serpian! Fantastic. How long are you going to be there?

    "Nihil est in intellectu quod non prius in sensu" | SB | Portfolio | FJGC (blog) | DA (Profile) | EJERCICIOS DE COLOR
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    Damn! that beethoven turned out better than I had expected. Solid work!

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    Great progress Serpian!

    That national museum study looks nice. Did you find it difficult to come back to the same spot?

    How big is your first cast drawing and how long did it take? What about the second one, how big is that and how long did that take?
    Did you mention somewhere that you wont be staying in the Ateljee after this "semester"? How come?

    Keep up the great progress and don't worry about someone being faster. For some people some areas sink in quicker and for some the other areas. You may find out at the end that you are faster than others. It's all about being able to gather the new knowledge, understand it, be able to put it in action and to hone the skills of putting down all the knowledge quick. THat will take time for sure and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with your previous art skills before starting your atelier training.

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  20. #110
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    came back for another look! I couldn't resist

    I really like this thread. It's a very constructive environment for learning for all us.
    Beautiful work on this beethoven cast! Is this also done Canson Mi Teintes? It's a great texture. I appreciate you uploading those big photos! What are you next projects going to be? Are you done with cast drawing?

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  21. #111
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    Thank you all for your kind comments!

    YuZa, I had a spot that was easy to remember and get back to, I just chose to sit close to this one particular column and put the chair on that particular stone in the floor. I can't remember the measurements of the nose cast, and I've given that away so I can't measure it. But the nose itself is roughly the same size as the real thing and I'd guess that was maybe 15 cm high? Don't take my word for it though... Beethoven is also the same size, maybe 20 cm. I can take measurements when I go to school on monday! And yes, unfortunately I won't be returning to Stockholm after summer, and the simple reason is money. And I agree with what you said about not trying to go fast because of others. This is important for everyone to understand. Take the time to learn what you want to learn properly, don't just rush.

    Oruhito, yes it's done on Mi Teintes. The paper is pretty smooth, not a lot of grain, so the texture is mostly the charcoal. Of course, the paper affects the way charcoal works, so it's all connected... Also, the camera picks up EVERYTHING, so it's way grainier that how it looks in the flesh, in a spot on the wall where it's not super bright. Right now I'm working on my third cast drawing, a bust of Agrippa. It's a bit funny in the light of what YuZa said, because now I have a deadline since I want to finish this one before the end of the semester. And while I agree that it's important to stay focused and let your studies take as long as it takes, it can also be useful to try to speed up once you're familiar to the process. Just as a musician starts playing a new melody slowly, then build up speed to learn to play it really quickly!

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  22. #112
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    dang, that's some serious stuff you've been drawing! such improvement! Neat to see that your still posting... unlike myself!

    Your organic form sense is improves leaps and bounds with every figure study you do! I'd love to see some of your newer sketches and personal content.

    So cool to see the improvement. Inspiring.

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  23. #113
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    OBX, what the hell, are you still alive?? Thanks man! I've done some sketching this last year, one sketchbook and one moleskine almost full.. I'll start up my old sketchbook thread again in the summer!

    Just a small update. We did some landscape painting last Friday, and although it started raining, I think it turned out rather well! For a first try, at least..
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    And a WIP of my current cast, Agrippa. I've been working much faster on this one, as I started it in the beginning of may, and have to have it finished by next week! I move back to Finland when the semester ends, so I'll probably upload the finished piece a while later....
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  24. #114
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    yeh, ive been traveling a lot and in some places I didn't even have internet for months at a time. It's been difficult to post, but I think I'm gonna start a new SB after summer and see what happens. really been pushing my color lately, and starting to get a better grasp on that. Can't wait to contribute!

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    Earlier in this thread you said that the camera is attributing to some of the grain, which I can tell attributes for most of it in this latest piece, but I think I can see some spots- especially the hair and base that have a bit of texture thats unrelated to the photo grain. I think that, and possibly your edges( itd be nice if you had a wider range from hard to lost, but I can understand if you were going for accuracy where all edges might have been similarly soft or firm) that is separating your very very good cast drawings to being great ones.

    "A drawing is not necessarily academic because it is thorough, but only because it is dead. Neither is a drawing necessarily academic because it is done in what is called a conventional style, any more than it is good because it is done in an unconventional style. The test is whether it has life and conveys genuine feeling."- Harold Speed
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    Awesome work here, dude! Really great!

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    Still as inspirational as ever. Can't wait to see the final Agrippa--that piece is simply stunning.

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  28. #118
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    Hey guys, thanks for the comments!

    Pariano: I didn't mean that the grain was created by the camera, but that the camera picks up all the grain that is there, and makes it more visible than it is in the flesh. Still you're right, there needs to be variation between smoothness and rough parts, and even though I'm going for a highly accurate finish, there still needs to be variations in the edges. My teacher always says "edges, edges, edges! If I got a tattoo, it would be EDGES, across my chest".

    I more or less finished Agrippa and the figure drawing today, but tomorrow is the last day of school, and I'm moving back to Finland the same day, so it might take a while before I upload pictures...

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  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serpian View Post
    OBX, what the hell, are you still alive?? Thanks man! I've done some sketching this last year, one sketchbook and one moleskine almost full.. I'll start up my old sketchbook thread again in the summer!

    Just a small update. We did some landscape painting last Friday, and although it started raining, I think it turned out rather well! For a first try, at least..
    Name:  0528-AS-landskap.jpg
Views: 1775
Size:  180.1 KB

    And a WIP of my current cast, Agrippa. I've been working much faster on this one, as I started it in the beginning of may, and have to have it finished by next week! I move back to Finland when the semester ends, so I'll probably upload the finished piece a while later....
    Name:  0528-AS-agrippa.jpg
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    I'm loving the feel of the agrippa. The balance of light and dark are impressive.

    one thing.

    What's that smug on the forehead's hairline?

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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  30. #120
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    Okay you guys, I'm so sorry for being lazy these last couple of weeks... So here it finally is, the update with my last works from Atelier Stockholm.. so far at least..

    OmenSpirits, thank you for your kind comment! I'm not sure what you meant with the smudge, though, you mean the bump on his forehead? Hopefully it's more clear in this update...

    Agrippa
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    And the final long pose
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    I'll probably not update this thread with more pictures, but you're all still welcome to give critiques or ask questions! Now let's see if I can get off my lazy ass and update my old sketchbook thread with stuff from the past year....

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