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Thread: Another Classical Atelier Thread
October 12th, 2008 #31Registered User
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I am amazed how well the Bargue drawing course has been received.
How are they presented at the atelier in Stockholm? Are the plates enlarged or is it up to the student?
Hide this ad by registering as a memberOctober 13th, 2008 #32
The Bargue torso looks really tough! It'll be exciting to see how that one progresses! Solis hälsar...
October 13th, 2008 #33
Graydon: We have photocopied and laminated reproductions of the plates from the book, I don't know whether they are full size or not, but I've seen some of the same plates in different sizes. On the Beldevere WIP, for example, you can see my piece of paper to the left, that's an A4. It's the biggest Bargue of the three. After this one I'm doing a charcoal Bargue, and those copies are usually larger.
October 14th, 2008 #34
Hi, Serpian! I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread of yours! I think you're on your way of becoming an amazing artist!
I'd like to comment on your discussion about sight size and comparative measuring. I prefer using the comparative method for drawing simply because it is a very natural process. There's no need for a set-up. Just grab your pencil and paper and start drawing. However, I've done a couple of Bargues using sight-size and I have to say that I've learned quite a few things about drawing by practicing that method.
I do agree with your instructor's opinions about both methods. Comparative is really difficult though. The hardest part for me is getting those initial measurements down on paper. I suppose those measurements are not totally meant to be 100% accurate in the beginning. I think they're more like good estimates that give you good starting points to eventually arrive at an accurate depiction of the subject.
Anyway, keep up the great work!
October 16th, 2008 #35
Very insightful thread Serpian, filled with tons of great bits of knowledge and nice to see you progress.
Never knew about the sight-seeing and comparative methods, but I kinda grasp those concepts a while ago, while doing life drawings. I agree that the comparative method is a bit harder, but it help me a lot in getting better at proportions. One exercise that push me in doing it was when my instructor push me in doing life drawing on bigger paper, from my 24 inch long papers to a 32. It helped so much.
Those memory exercises sound pretty good and for sure, will try the out. Thanks for sharing this info and look forward to see how you progress.
October 19th, 2008 #36
Hi there Serpian.
Student from Florence Academy of Art, Gothenburg here.
Cool to see a member from conceptart inrolled at atelier stockholm.
So how is the school? read about the workshop you had with the guy from weta workshop. Sounded like a intresting lecture.
The bargues are looking great. Finsihed my bargues last trimester. Just got started on my first cast.
October 19th, 2008 #37
Dizon and Maestro Andres: I think the Bargues is as close as we get to sight-size, and even then our teacher encourages us to measure less and compare more, so I can't really add much to that discussion, as I haven't experienced sight-size myself. It would be interesting to try it out though, so I could see the differences first hand.
Pencilator: Hi there! The school is great, very challenging and a nice atmosphere. I still feel like I should be doing a lot on my own though, if I want to really progress. And I'm gonna do that.. Tomorrow? It'd be nice for our schools to meet up sometimes and, I don't know, do stuff together. By the way, here is a link to a classmate of mine who's on ca.org, and here is the thread of a former student at that school.
This Friday we visited the studio museum of Swedish painter Julius Kronberg, in Skansen.
This is from his studio, I stood right in front of that painting, and it's huge! The second row of small frames to the right, from the bottom, is about eye level... Here is another picture from inside the studio.
And just a small update on my Bargue... After a long period of getting bogged down, I've finally gone on to flat values - still going very carefully and always ready to erase where need be.
People usually say that in order to draw something accurately, you can't just draw a foot, or a leg, but see the abstract shapes that build it up, and draw those. A good way to spot the errors in your abstract shapes is to try to find recognizable shapes in them, and compare those to the original. We often find different animals or figures. Here, for example is:
1. An eagle head.
2. A rabbit or sphinx
3. A diving whale or bird
4. A Christmas tree or Jabba the Hutt (you decide, folks!)
5. A weird heart or a weird pacman shape
Once you've located these shapes in the original and your drawing (and stopped laughing at them), you can use the flip-book method of spotting errors. You know how you can draw small stick figures on the pages of a book and then flip through it to get an animation? You can do this here as well, but instead of flipping pages, you look quickly from one shape to it's original, and if there's a difference, you'll see it move around. It really works! You should focus at a small shape or angle to notice the dancing, and it should look something like this:
See you later!
October 19th, 2008 #38
October 21st, 2008 #39
Thankd for the kind words in y sketchbook. Guess we need to hook up and sketch next time I come to Stockholm.
You do know both of our schools are going to be in the same exhibition here in Gothenburg next year, together with a few artist from Norway, Odd Nerdrums group.
By the way it's cool that you take time to show the way of seeing shapes to everyone else here on the forum, thumbs up.
October 26th, 2008 #40
Screw anything else, I have to say you have A FANTASTIC ATTITUDE.
That alone ought to get you far!
October 29th, 2008 #41
Serpian, watching your progress (I'm a lurker normally) is fascinating and inspiring. Thank you
October 31st, 2008 #42
Thanks guys! Pencilator, I haven't heard of that exhibition. I have to ask my teachers! Dmitri, thanks!
Here's another WIP shot of my old pal Belvedere. This was taken this Wednesday, so I'm a little bit further along. Hans told me today that if I don't have it finished by next Friday, he'll burn out my non-dominant eye with his laser pointer. Or cut my junk off, depending on his mood. So. I'm motivated!
And here's some figure drawings, all of them are three hour poses, twenty minutes pose, five minutes pause.
And a portrait.
The Following User Says Thank You to Serpian For This Useful Post:
November 1st, 2008 #43
...Have you actually made that "let's draw other student's portraits" work on your own or... is this arrangement more due to the portrait models just not showing up?
November 1st, 2008 #44
PM'D.My SketchBook http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=139784
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=192127"Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."-John Huston, Director
November 3rd, 2008 #45
dmitri, we have portrait drawing every Monday afternoon, and the arrangement simply is that we sit for each other. But later we will have a model and do a three day pose, I believe.
OmenSpirits sent me an interesting question over PM, and I thought I'd share it with everyone:
Originally Posted by OmenSpirits
First of all, the school I'm studying at does not teach the sight-size method, although, when we're doing the Bargues, we do draw them the same size as the original. You can read more about what our teacher thinks about sight-size here.
But, to answer your question: What we're doing is, of course, copying the Bargues. So in that sense, we're not doing anything individual, and the result is just that; a copy. But we are not doing the Bargues just to learn how to do Bargues. We're not in this school so that we can copy Bargues for the rest of our lives!
What we're doing, instead, is following a logical step-by-step process of learning, starting with the Bargues, going on to more difficult cast drawings, and in the end we will be able to paint anything. Doing Bargues as a start is much easier than beginning with a complicated still life or trying to do a finished model painting. The Bargues teach us, as you said, to see. I've learned to look at shapes and values in a different way. I will use what I have learned, later, when I do more complicated stuff. And that's why we do the Bargues.
However, doing Bargues probably won't improve your skills in drawing from the imagination. To do that, you have to do a lot of drawing from the imagination as well as doing studies. That way you can use what you have learned doing all your studies. For example: You can see in my thread that my second Bargue was the leg and foot. I have also done a lot of figure drawings. So now, when I draw a leg from my imagination, I can use what I have learned about the knee from that Bargue and all the figure drawings, and my drawing from imagination will look more like a real knee.
So, if you don't want to be a copycat, doing Bargues for the rest of your life, you should do a lot of things, Bargue studies, life drawing, drawing from your imagination, everything. Then you will really improve.
Hope this makes sense!
Originally Posted by OmenSpirits
Bridgman is very sketchy and sometimes very hard to understand. But his understanding of volume and mass is still very good to try to learn from. Other anatomy books can be very easy to understand and to learn all the muscles from, but sometimes they are just a bit lifeless. Bridgman knows how to put life into his anatomy, and that is the most important thing you can learn from him.
It's good that you use different books and try to learn different things, both Bridgman and Loomis are good. But the most important thing is still drawing from life, and doing it much! That way all that you have learned about values and shapes from Bargue, all that you have learned about muscles and bones from Bridgman, and all that you have learned about gesture and proportions from Loomis can be used to make a great life drawing. And this in turn helps your drawings from imagination.
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