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Thread: Another Classical Atelier Thread

  1. #1
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    Another Classical Atelier Thread

    Yes! So it begins, my time at Atelier Stockholm! A week has now passed, and my first Bargue study is finished. I've also done a three hour figure drawing, which we were told to do "so that you can look back and laugh at it later". Also in this post: Bargue 2, work in progress.

    Bargue 1 - Idealized Profile
    Attachment 663827

    3 hour figure drawing
    Attachment 663826

    Bargue 2 - WIP
    Attachment 663824
    Last edited by Serpian; January 11th, 2010 at 07:28 AM.
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    nice!
    my new site, is crazy stuff but is my own space, I can say whatever!! hehe:
    http://theallejo05.spaces.live.com/?_c02_owner=1
    One of the art schools I respect the most:
    http://www.mimsstudios.com/philosophy.htm
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    The stuff looks really nice!

    You are making alot of process. I think you approach the right way to the countours/shapes with simple straight lines.
    Sorry for my poor english
    My life drawings
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    I'm glad you made a new thread for your atelier stuff. Going to keep an eye on this. Looks pretty good already!
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    Hi Serpian

    Did I read right that Atelier Stockholm has abandoned the use of sight size? how are you measuring instead?
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    Hi Serpian,

    nice start !

    It will be interesting to follow your journey
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    Apparently, yes - Hans, one of the teachers has come to the conclusion that sight-size is a limiting method. When he was a student he was taught sight-size, and he used it for many years, I believe, but then realized he didn't like it.

    We are being taught what he calls the comparative method, where, instead of always having the size of the picture and model to line up, one can draw any size in any position, as long as the proportions are correct. Hence, the comparative method. He argues that the sight-size method, contrary to popular belief, is not historical and wasn't invented until the 20th century. He also argues that using the comparative method, one can draw a model that isn't at eye-level, from any angle, distance and position.
    But the Bargues are still done pretty much sight-size, as they are 2D pictures that are put directly next to the paper. And I haven't done anything other than bargues yet, so I've not been taught the comparative method, and can't form an opinion myself. We're having a lecture on the different methods later in the semester.

    Read more about Hans' views.
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    Looks like your off to a great start, one of Hans former pupils is now my teacher, and I'm learning a ton. And you are studying in Stockholm, which is to me one of the most amazing cities in the world.

    I think sight-size is a solid tool for learning, but I'm not sure I'd want to use it as a working method later on, comparative measurement is a lot more flexible, especially for subject matter, like people, that have a tendency to move and fidget.

    I'm just a student myself, so I can't really comment on Hans feelings about sight-size as a teaching tool, but with regards to the origins of sight-size:

    He argues that the sight-size method, contrary to popular belief, is not historical and wasn't invented until the 20th century.
    I know Hans argues that simply placing the canvas next to the model is not sight-size, and it makes sense to make that argument if you intend to infer that sight-size was invented by Paxton, as a very notable 19th century artist is known to have painted many portraits in this manner.

    From John Collier's "The Art of Portrait Painting" (1905), speaking about Sargent's methods:

    For one thing he often moved his easel next to the sitter so that when he walked back
    from it he saw the canvas and the original in the same light, at the same distance, at the same angle of
    vision.
    I'd think that Sargent would have also taken advantage of the situation and transferred measurements & angles, but using a brush handle instead of thread. Darren Rousar's website has more historical information on sight-size, including additional discussion of the essay Hans mentions in his writings, and the notion that sight-size is not just mechanical reproduction: http://www.sightsize.com/misconceptions.html
    Last edited by thinairart; September 7th, 2008 at 12:30 AM.
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    regarding sight-size I took part in a short course with Florence academy of Art and used that technique for a week. I saw drawings they have done with the method and it was impressive results. If you want to paint or draw portraits of people you can have standing in front of you for days or weeks the method is all you need but in other careers I think you need to mix it up . When you do character design for games the use of photoreference is very common and the strict sight-size is out of the window. That is just one example but the list goes on.

    I am always sceptical when they mention one technique and say that is the way the old masters painted. The explosion in the field of realistic painting is largely due to the advances in photo technology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by reidaj View Post
    I'd think that Sargent would have also taken advantage of the situation and transferred measurements & angles, but using a brush handle instead of thread. Darren Rousar's website has more historical information on sight-size, including additional discussion of the essay Hans mentions in his writings, and the notion that sight-size is not just mechanical reproduction: http://www.sightsize.com/misconceptions.html
    I highly doubt Sargent used sight-size. Many of his portrait exhibit exaggerated proportions and are larger then life, which would be impossible using the sight-size method.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johanflod View Post
    The explosion in the field of realistic painting is largely due to the advances in photo technology.
    What? So no one painted realistically before photos were invented?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetoblivion314 View Post
    ...larger then life, which would be impossible using the sight-size method.
    Not true - you simply put the easel further away than the subject.
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    Sorry Serpian, don't mean to hijack your thread!

    I Look forward to you posting more of your work as you progress through the program. Do you get to choose which Bargue plates you will work from, or are they selected for you?


    I highly doubt Sargent used sight-size. Many of his portrait exhibit exaggerated proportions and are larger then life, which would be impossible using the sight-size method.
    The quote about Sargent's methods stated that Sargent "often" placed his easel beside his subject, not exclusively.
    Last edited by thinairart; September 7th, 2008 at 01:09 PM.
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