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August 22nd, 2008 #1
I'm not comfortable drawing without references..
Is that a bad thing? Just as an FYI on my skills - I haven't attended any art schools yet (well, I attended Academy of Art's high school programs) so I have no formal training other than a couple of drawing classes at my local community college. I've always been able to draw though, but it's only recently that I've started doing more realism. I consider myself to be very rational/scientific when it comes to doing still life or copying anything from real life basically, in a sense that I have all the information there, it's just a matter of problem solving in order to make it look either realistic enough or as realistic as possible. I never made a "as realistic as possible" drawing or painting but I don't think it's impossible.
Now, I'm putting together a portfolio and I'm having a problem including pieces that I actually like. For me, there's a technical standard in which I personally have to live up to because I know better (my heroes including such artists like Michael Hussar and 15th-16th century artists like Caravaggio and Rembrandt.) Unfortunately my standards aren't living up to my skills yet. I mean, I have no problem doing still life, but when it comes to imaginative/concept art, I'm just stumped.
Don't get me wrong, I'm probably one of the most imaginative people around being that I love fantasizing about fantastic things. I just have a problem executing them correctly on paper. If I were able to get some models in costumes in a set (all of which I can pick out), that would be no problem for me to draw, but I have none of that.
So should I still push forward to try and make things work with my imaginative drawings even though they might turn out mediocre and not live up to my expectation or should I just stick to what I'm good at right now, which would be a lot of still life and self portraits? I have so many good ideas, but at the same time I don't want to show the school art that I'm not happy with.
Are there any tips any of you pros can give me? Any exercises to better my imagination concept-to-paper skills? I know it's a common dilemma and usually I just wouldn't ask for help, but I just need some advice from anyone of you who can provide any because I need to turn in this portfolio asap. I guess I'm getting what you can consider as the artist's equivalent of a writer's block. Such bad timing too.
Hide this ad by registering as a memberAugust 23rd, 2008 #2
Everybody draws better with reference. There are plenty of pros that don't do art without models and props. Of course the old masters did the same thing.
Personally, I think the difference is what YOU bring to the piece. If you're just a copy machine, then who cares? You have to take the ref and make it BETTER. More fanciful, more fluid, more dramatic.
What I suggest is think up your "from imagination" idea, then use yourself to pose it out in a mirror (doing gestures to capture it, or taking pictures), and look up the types of props you need. This way you'll have the reference in pieces, but it's up to you how you put them together.
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August 23rd, 2008 #3
What she said...
...and I can't draw a damn thing without a moldy cup of coffee and a cig hangin' out of my mouth. Big deal.
Oh...and I was TAUGHT...got that word?--TAUGHT to build a massive reference file on just about everything I could find. It was called a morgue and was basically a couple of hundred pounds of reference clippings, and if real artists aren't supposed to use ref, I wasted a lot of time I wish I had back right now...
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August 23rd, 2008 #4basically a couple of hundred pounds of reference clippings
regarding the issue here: get access to a halfway decent digital camera and shoot some photos. Hell, even a crapy digital camera. If you can't get friends to help you, set the timer and pose yourself. Improvise costumes out of whatever you have on hand, be creative.
August 23rd, 2008 #5Registered User
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Check the Book of bones
I came across the following advice from mentler in his "The book of bones" thread: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...t=26748&page=1
August 23rd, 2008 #6
I was just reading some Loomis last night (Creative Illustration), and his recommendation is to not use any reference for the thumbnails or roughs, but once you get to that point: get some friggin' reference. His argument is that you're not going to be able to consistently beat out the other guy who always uses reference, if you hold to using none at all.
It was advice I myself needed to hear.
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August 23rd, 2008 #7vilppu wannabe
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when you do the concept for your painting you can simply use stick figures or similiar just to get down the composition and roughly the shading. The mistake I used to make is that i wanted it to look really kick as from the start and I did not allow myself to doodle with simple figures. when you look at Frank frazetta sketches for example they look simple but they capture the essence of what he wants to do. Once you have the picture down with stick figures you can get somebody to pose for you and buid up the level of detail in the picture.
off topic: I have started to draw more from life latelly and it is much easier to get the actual 3d form of an object when you can walk around it. this maybe sounds obvious but I go to sculpture museums and life drawing classes at the moment and it is a lot more fun than drawing from photos. even if you have taken photos of the pose you want i would recomend to get somebody to pose at least for a short while.
August 23rd, 2008 #8
August 23rd, 2008 #9
Sleep...Eden, if you only recently started drawing from imagination, well, that's fine!! It's not easy knowing right away where and how elements measure and fit together on a subject without some refs to be sure! Sometimes, as you'll see, different refs have nuances that might even throw you off (like head shapes, muscles, etc.). It would be pretty difficult to keep all that info in your imagination until you get enough time with the subject(s)!
So, what everyone's saying about references: YES! Keep as much as you can!! I got refs all over the place, but especially on my computer. I even included fictional cartoon characters, because I sure do forget how to draw them from imagination, too! hee hee. And also as said, you add your twist and make the piece your own, no matter how many references you use!
August 23rd, 2008 #10
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August 23rd, 2008 #11
Someone either on this site or on DA - yes, there are some pros on there - said that if your art style is focused on realism, you'll always be using and referring to reference. I'm using it constantly for my work now and I'm noticing how much faster I'm learning. Once I got rid of that mindset of "working with reference is not good", it helped.
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August 24th, 2008 #12
Here is what I would advice. Use reference but only in certain ways. For instance...Ahem: Use reference when you need to figure out how to draw an arm in a certain position for a character your drawing. Try to look at several different reference pictures so you have a broad idea of how that arm could look in different lighting situations, poses, etc, etc. And don't be afraid to use reference for any number of things for one piece.
However there is also a bad way to use reference and I witnessed this on a grand scale during highschool. I had a teacher who use to tell everyone of his students it was ok to completely copy an image and call it their "art". He would take pictures from magazines, merely copy them in graphite or acrylic and label it as his art. He was an older man and had spent his entire career doing such, and one day when he was asked to draw something from his mind he drew up a complete blank and said he couldn't do it. When you treat your art like a copy machine it becomes not only dull and boring but you never really learn how to draw things WITHOUT reference.
Don't use reference to copy, use reference as an indication of what you should do. If you need to look up how to draw an arm in a certain situation please by all means do so. Analyze it, study it, compare it with other photos and decide on what information from that reference your going to put down and what your going to change to match your style and taste. Use reference but still be yourself and not a copy machine.
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August 24th, 2008 #13
Another great option is dvds and a computer that can take screen grabs.
To the original poster, use as much reference as you can and do the best you can. It may not live up to your standards and hopes and dreams, but you need to start somewhere. If you let not having all the skills you desire stop you from trying, you'll never get anywhere.
August 24th, 2008 #14
Use reference or memorise what everything has looked like, ever.
August 25th, 2008 #15
Don't just stick to what you're good at.
Get reference whenever you can. However, the better you can draw from your imagination, the more mileage you will be able to get out of your reference.
I don't know your work, but usually the biggest block to drawing from imagination is a poor understanding of perspective. Learn it very well- beyond just drawing a couple cubes. Most people skimp on perspective and don't take it as far as it really needs to be taken to make it really useful.
August 28th, 2008 #16
August 28th, 2008 #17Registered User
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Start doing drawings, if you are drawing objects, with your eyes on the object 90% of the time. This will attach your eyebrain cells to the thing, instead of the thinking particles attached to the drawing which is probably wrong anyway.
You will start to imagine your pencil is digging at the guy's inner thighs, following that contour.
August 28th, 2008 #18Registered User
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One neat bit of advice I read: draw the thing you want to draw without reference (i.e. a bike). Then look up the reference and "copy" it. Then draw it again from your imagination and see what you improved on from your first picture.
The second picture will always look the best (duh) but hopefully, the third will be done from memory and better than the first.
August 28th, 2008 #19
i'm terrible without refs, period.
but, not many people can do very well even with great refs, so you got a one up on them.
in art school, we had a class where you concentrated on rendering, and we used photos that we'd trace to then practice rendering techniques. it was done to make sure proportions were correct, etc so that you could concentrate on the technique.
well despite that huge shortcut to getting proportions right, when it came to either painting or shading over the initial drawing, some could not retain the proportions in their final piece (not to mention the right levels of contrast and color among other things).
so you still have to observe and be able to draw if you use refs, even if you trace them sometimes!
ability tends to shine through no matter what your method, imo.
August 28th, 2008 #20Registered User
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Same thing with reference. You're cataloging all that info, so it's really just a matter of letting go of your expectations than your non-reference stuff not being good.
Still, you feel better using reference you could try drawing the piece twice, once with reference and then again from memory and just make the one from memory more imaginative.
August 28th, 2008 #21
August 29th, 2008 #22
August 29th, 2008 #23Registered User
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since u said that you are drawing pretty realistic, it might be that ur drawing the way Harold Speed described as "mass drawing" (i think). It means, accurately drawing shapes and values as they appear flat on your retina. That kind of drawing probably wont help u muh when drawing from imagination. U have to get a feel for form (lol). Try Vilppus book or videos. First chapters deal with simple forms like boxes, spheres, cylinders, but it doesn matter which u use. U could use Bridgmans, which are a bit more complicated and get same result. More u know the things u are drawing in more smaller forms u can break them.
its hard for me to describe what i think in english, but i hope u get it
September 19th, 2008 #24
September 19th, 2008 #25
It's a common saying among popular artists "That refer to your reference not copy it" I mean if it's a portrait or something, that that could be okay. but if you copy too many refs nothing will flow out of your own brain. and you'll become dependent and almost addicted to refs.
September 19th, 2008 #26
September 19th, 2008 #27
September 19th, 2008 #28Sheriff
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September 19th, 2008 #29
September 20th, 2008 #30
photo reference is a gift from the art gods, be blessed
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