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  1. #1
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    Thanks ConceptArt.org!

    Wow I think there's around 3 threads a week here about some guy or girl that states how much they suck at art and how difficult the path is or to find inspiration and the power to move on.

    Just want you to know that I am none of that. At times I say silly little things like I'm not worthy, I'm a noob or whatever, but I know with 100% certainty that I will be successful. You know why? It's because I work my fucking butt of to be up there on top (figuratively as well as literally speaking).

    All these guys telling me I'm too old, I have no talent, I shouldn't waste my live, I'll take your words and shove it down into your throats until your indulgent selfcentered little hypocrisity is coming out of your asses.

    A toast to CA and all those fine people here that make it possible for me to learn my craft! I hope you keep your level that high for a loooong time to come!

    cheers!

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  3. #2
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    Heh. Don't do the victory dance until you're in the end zone.

    Actually, I've just had a peep at your sketchbook and I'll think you'll do good, too. You've got some lovely stuff in there and a clear arc of improvement from beginning to end.

    Just making the general point that the people who are down on themselves have a better chance than the people who overestimate what they've got. The people who are depressed about their skill level are probably comparing themselves to the best and are able to see that they aren't there. The ones that don't drop out from sheer angst have a path to get better.

    I cringe when I see adults post, "I know I can make it because I have faith in myself" and then I go look at their sketchbook and think, "ouch."

    Artists are like compulsive gamblers. We believe in the one-in-a-million chance. But that means 999,999 times we're wrong.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoat View Post
    We believe in the one-in-a-million chance.
    Good enough for me!

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    Ilaekae is offline P.O.W.! Leader, Complete Idiot, Super Moderator Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    I'll settle for 1/10th that...

    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary
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    Seriosuly Stoat, what are you talking about ?

    you made a good point in the middle
    Just making the general point that the people who are down on themselves have a better chance than the people who overestimate what they've got. The people who are depressed about their skill level are probably comparing themselves to the best and are able to see that they aren't there. The ones that don't drop out from sheer angst have a path to get better.
    but man... its up to YOU if you want to get good at art. HAHA art is not some random gaming system that just 'some' understand or have the 'luck' to find a way through.

    You work your goddamn ass of if you want to get good, if you don't want to get good, keep drawing the same shit over and over til' you rock at something that sucks... No big deal ?

    I'm glad to see the high spirit from Faust, Ilaekae and The amaranth though
    keep that shit up...

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  9. #6
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    I like that you are communicating this Faust. I often feel the same way about CA.

    I watched an inspiring interview with the creator of "5 centimeters per second", an anime OAV, it which is discussed how he created the movie, in his apartment, with friends, over a year and a half.

    Animation is his life, and all he thought about it.

    SSG 37The Show Must Go On!
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    | My Sketchbook |
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  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dile_ View Post
    Seriosuly Stoat, what are you talking about ?

    you made a good point in the middle


    but man... its up to YOU if you want to get good at art. HAHA art is not some random gaming system that just 'some' understand or have the 'luck' to find a way through.
    Oh, to be young again. Random. Luck. The levers that move the universe.

    Not every dude who lifts weights is going to be Schwarzenegger, no matter how hard he trains.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  11. #8
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    Or how many steroids he takes.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  12. #9
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    Agree with you faust
    Really Ca is just amazing

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  13. #10
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    Stoat, I see where you are coming from and considering your skill and experience, there is nothing for me to argue about your opinion or even raise my voice against. It's basically the same as Kev Ferrara who occasionally says something like "You don't just pick up your pencil and be awesome, only a very selected few can reach a higher level ith a lot of training" to issues like this.
    I do agree on that point fullheartetly, really, BUT another thing you and others seem to imply on that matter is the idea that you're wasting your time when you start working after your teenage years, it's really what brings me down, hearing that from professionals, that I should give up and do something else since it's too late already. Actually, I already became that sensible to that point that I read this attitude in your depiction of adults specifically.
    Maybe you will never respect me as an artist no matter how hard I train and how big of a leap I make. But that has never been my intention, doing this for myself.
    I tried working as something else, I made my MSc and collected experience in my studied field of work for some time. But in the end I reached the conclusion that I really can't do anything else than draw in my life and to be able to do it on the level I want to I realized that I have to make a lot of sacrifices and make art THE top priority.
    So what? Maybe I won't be as good as a Mullins or a Ferrara or you, but why the fuck should that be a reason to stop what I love doing?
    Don't take that as an offense, I do not have a grudge against you, I don't even know you.

    The Amaranth, Ilaekae,
    Dile_, Matsign, Algenpfleger, lilnebo I'm really thankful for your support, really means a lot to me.

    Last edited by ~Faust~; August 3rd, 2008 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Damn you, academic titles and your abbreviations!
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  15. #11
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    Hey, Faust. I really don't think it was Stoat's intention to imply that you are wasting your time.

    Also, I find it admirable that you have decided to chase your dream. So many people seem to go through their lives never chasing theirs. Best of luck to you.

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  16. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Faust~ View Post
    BUT another thing you and others seem to imply on that matter is the idea that you're wasting your time when you start working after your teenage years, it's really what brings me down, hearing that from professionals, that I should give up and do something else since it's too late already.
    Whoa! Projection much?

    The only reason I mentioned age is that you're supposed to suck when you're young. You can't help it -- even with talent, it takes time to master all the fiddly little skills involved. I don't care what they say, I've never seen a kid I considered a genuine art prodigy. So when I see someone post work with a very basic skill level, I do them the favor of assuming they're young.

    Someone who's older who posts work at that level, I have to wonder how much self-awareness they have. And without an awareness of how high the mountain is and how far down the side of it you are, you probably aren't going to climb very high.

    Your sketchbook is good and getting better. Relax.

    But seriously -- you gave up a medical career? Jesus. I wanted to be a hospital pathologist in the worst way, but I didn't really have the skillset for med school. I lumme some microscopy.

    Fate's a bitch, ain't she?

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  17. #13
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    Hmm seems there's still a lot of angst in me left... Sorry about that, after reading your post, Stoat I think I indeed projected quite a lot into it. Sorry about being immature.

    EDIT: Oh, I just looked up the title MD, I thought it meant "Master's degree" but it does indeed mean "medical doctor"... Well, I am a clinical psychologist so I AM supposed to work in a hospital wearing a white cloak and spilling out a lot of strange vocabulary, but not everyone sees that as a medical career. So I guess there as a misconception. Still a steady and save future I kind of left behind.

    Last edited by ~Faust~; August 3rd, 2008 at 10:58 AM.
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  18. #14
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    look at Bluefooted at the top bunch of artists.
    She's a Doctor/Prof.
    But her works still roxmasox.

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  19. #15
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    time really is cyclical,

    que is there such a thing as talent threads

    and people can refernce that body builder who wasnt born to be one but still succeeded all day long.

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    When it comes to learning all that stuff on CA and becoming artist, I like to think that there is no going back. When you go deep enough into the process, it's like jumping into the sea with a rock. You can either fight with your weight or swim down even faster. The words "going down" can give bad impression though. It could simultaneously be rising. You don't need to reach stars but the view from above is getting more and more breathtaking .

    Cheers.

    PS. And yes! CA.org is amazing.

    Last edited by Farvus; August 3rd, 2008 at 09:19 PM.
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  22. #17
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    I can't even fathom any reason to assume anyone couldn't learn art later in life and even excel in it. Grandma Moses pretty much broke that barrier a long time ago. Art is all about how much work you put into it. The more effort in, the more progress appears on the 'out'. I know that I myself am not anywhere near the level I want to be artistically. But life sometimes intervenes and blocks us sometimes, but rolling with the punches and moving on is important, art or otherwise.

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  23. #18
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    If you're talking about Stoat's posts, Jhgoforth, I don't see him assuming that anyone couldn't learn art late in life. Rather Stoat is pointing out and acknowledging that there are lots of hurdles to hop and when you start out late that just means you have to do it faster.

    Imagine the hurdle sprinting event at the Olympics. Now consider that everyone else has a one minute head start on you. You may very well beat everyone to the finish, but you'll have to run that much harder for it. That's what age is like, you have less time to accomplish goals so you have to make up for that by acting quickly and wisely.

    -My work can be found at my local directory thread.
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    The best way to improve at anything is always competition. Nobody ever teaches this, the most valuable of lessons.

    Your parents always tried to teach you that you shouldn't be a "sore loser" and should also not gloat your victories. This is correct, in part. You _should_ actually be a "sore loser" to yourself.

    If you like something, and you lose at it to someone better... you practice. And come back and beat them, causing them to practice to beat you, while you look for a new adversary. This is how all skills progress, how all inventions are improved upon, and how the human race (or anything evolves). Survival of the fittest.

    The internet makes "skill acceleration" much more possible than every was imaginable. Years ago, you would be stuck trying to improve against your own world and what was available to you. Now if you can't find something "just a bit better than you", you just look somewhere else on the internet.

    If you happen to be the very best at it (highly unlikely), you can rest assured that if you post your work on the internet, someone will try and beat you. And will provide you a new bar to reach for. And this will ALWAYS be the case.

    What I'm trying to say is, never give up on something you like. And always invite healthy competition. Compare your work to someone who's work completely inspires you. Compare your work others that are doing the same, progress together, help each other by sharing your progress.

    One day, I'll be able to draw as well as the people who's sketchbooks I look at daily. But on that day, they'll be able to draw like their current heroes, and I'll have to set a new goal for myself.

    This is not to say you can't be happy with whatever level you reach, sometimes its enough. Or you have more than one drive / hobby / love in your life, and you need to get comfortable at a level in all of them. Work hard, and always have a goal.

    Current Artist Level - Straight up begginer
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    Heh. Considering my story is that I'm leaving a 9-5 corporate art gig after 25 years (exactly 25 years this month!) and making one last throw at fine arts...believe me, I'm not going to propose age as a barrier to success. I didn't expect anyone to remember my autobiography, I'm just saying.

    However, hard work and determination isn't the whole of the story, either. Everyone will get better with hard work, but a Frazetta or a Rackham or a Rembrandt...these weren't simply the hardest working guys on their street. I'm sure all the greats worked hard, but plenty work as hard without ever being great.

    Meaning: there is such a thing as talent. It's not an absolute predicter of success or failure, but you better believe it's a factor. And in the really great, there is some extra voodo special sauce Idon'tknowwhatitis.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  26. #21
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    Ilaekae is offline P.O.W.! Leader, Complete Idiot, Super Moderator Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    In the spirit of the original thread title, I'd like to thank CA, too. I came here because a friend said it would be full of people I could enjoy annoying. It was...and is. Thank you for that.

    With a few exceptions, I'm probably twice the age (three or four times, in some cases...ugh...) of most of the people here, and all of you accept tools as normal that are so far beyond anything I could have imagined when I was your age and do such amazing work with them, that I wasn't sure I could fit in.

    It didn't seem to matter, happily. You made me feel welcome (as well as more than a few others in the same general circumstances), and actually accepted the fact that my elevator sometimes get stuck between floors. I thank you all for that.

    I enjoy myself here... I like watching the little failures become large successes over time, and the unselfish way that so many of you help those who need a bit of a shove sometimes to find their way. Yes, there are assholes here--I'm one of them, but most of you even forgive us for that. Again, thank you all for that.

    They're aren't many places on-line, or even in real life, where so many people of so many types from so many places can interact without blood on the floor as a norm. I like that. Let's keep it that way.

    Now...I have only one question... Who is this Jason Mankley guy and why is his name everywhere?










    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary
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  28. #22
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    I don't know, but every time I see him I remember that the first porn novel I ever read was written by Manley X. Morgan, and if you tell me that was a nom de plume, I will be heartbroken.

    Although, you know, the X has to be for Xavier, which isn't all that masculine a name, is it?

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    Migawd, I hope Manley X. Morgan is a fake name! I can't imagine some poor bastard going through grade school with that hangin' on 'im...

    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary
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    Natural talent at something, is nothing more than a head start. There are problems with the head start of course... some people are color blind, and therefore will not be able to paint the same as someone who isn't. that is extremely unfortunate for them. In the same way, someone who has lost the use of their legs cannot be a professional football player. These are extremes and there are varying degrees of difference between these extremes where you can also come up with examples to the point.

    My main point is, you can always improve at something you are doing. And when you improve past one of your goals, you feel "accomplishment". And this is what you're shooting for in everything you do, you always want to accomplish something. You never want to "fail". Unless failing is your goal, then you are still accomplishing something

    not to jump on the bandwagon

    I would also like to thank CA, this has been a tremendous source of inspiration for me, and continues to be. I've also received countless tips and tricks to use along the way, and the road so far would have been MUCH harder without the help.

    Current Artist Level - Straight up begginer
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDrawingIrish View Post
    Natural talent at something, is nothing more than a head start.
    No, don't kid yourself. Natural talent is a factor from beginning to end.

    Sometimes people fail despite having bags of talent, and sometimes people close a 'talent gap' with hard work and application, but that difference in natural ability is a very real factor every step of the way.

    It amazes me when people recognize this in sport or music but deny it in art.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDrawingIrish View Post
    Natural talent at something, is nothing more than a head start. There are problems with the head start of course... some people are color blind, and therefore will not be able to paint the same as someone who isn't. that is extremely unfortunate for them. In the same way, someone who has lost the use of their legs cannot be a professional football player. These are extremes and there are varying degrees of difference between these extremes where you can also come up with examples to the point.

    My main point is, you can always improve at something you are doing. And when you improve past one of your goals, you feel "accomplishment". And this is what you're shooting for in everything you do, you always want to accomplish something. You never want to "fail". Unless failing is your goal, then you are still accomplishing something

    not to jump on the bandwagon

    I would also like to thank CA, this has been a tremendous source of inspiration for me, and continues to be. I've also received countless tips and tricks to use along the way, and the road so far would have been MUCH harder without the help.

    I'm slightly colorblind concerning red-on-green and this has never done me no harm except for when I paint something with red-next-to-green and the next day I look at it I get a shock when I realize I can't actually see the area 'very well' ...

    Are you colorblind ? seems like you made excuses for it..

    Using colorblindness for an excuse to getting good at art is the same as being Emo.. Just a lot of self-pitying ... sorry for those people who CAN'T SEE COLORS AT ALL. but they can still be good artists... Values am i right am i right ??..

    edit**

    I thought of this for a few minutes... And actually I will have to say that everyone else is unfortunate, who can't see world through my eyes.. Stuff is mighty awesome from this point of view

    /yes I really know that I'm 'fortunate' to only have a slight colorblindness\...

    Last edited by Dile_; August 6th, 2008 at 08:50 AM.
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    Ilaekae: that was the most beautfil thing you ever wrote, it made me cry .....
    lmfao
    Stoat: you bring talent into it and you just asking for trouble with me lmfao, you should really know about my war with talent.
    anywayz, Yes i fully agree there is such a thing as natural talent
    But the thing that most people don't get is everyone has a natural talent for everything. Anyone can be good at anything *except for things which you are just not able to do due to disablity or something* Everyone has that special talent with in them. The only difference is you need to awake that talent. It;s rusty and it's never been used, the harder you work with it the better it gets. So its not a fact of not having talent it's using it. Theres people you see who pick up a skill more quickly than others thats because they grew up around it seeing it all the time.
    Come on people putting it logically,
    you've got 2 kids one whos parents and artist and they see art around them all the time and one who has no one in their family do any art.
    The one thats been used to art is gonne pick things up more quickly but if they start slacking and the one whos never grew up around art starts working hard ofcourse hes gonne by bass him.
    Really in the end it all comes down to hard work, passion and determination.
    Ok am gonne go draw now lmfao

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    Okay. I quit. I feel like I'm drop-kicking puppies here.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    Stoat am crying now
    I went and bought 7 machine guns
    3 pistols
    Got my gas bombs ready
    Dressed in a full metal armor
    And all you say is you quit......
    Dang you

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  36. #30
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    Adorable big-eyed puppies.

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    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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