Girl and the bike
 
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  1. #1
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    Girl and the bike

    Here's something I have worked on for last week every evening, little by little.

    Tell me what you think about it, I'd like to get it more realistic and I seriously need your help in achieving that.

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  3. #2
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    feet that aren't the size of the turnlights might help
    get some decent reference for a panorama sky with clouds
    you just painted cliché clouds

    and where are the tire prints?

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    Way too much attention payed to surface texture and rendering, not nearly enough payed to drawing, form, and structure.


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  6. #4
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    Thanks, the clouds are sure quite dull. I'm going to work on them next. And the feet.

    Elwell, got any specific pointers about what to improve? At the moment I feel that I have payed attention to everything as much as I could and can't really see any errors except for those that are pointed by others.

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    1. Lighting: I'm really not sure what's the main light source here. Her shadow and hair might indicate that it's coming from somewhere behind her, to her left and slightly lower than she is, but I don't see any sign of that on the ground's lighting, and the background looks flooded with daylight, which is completely lost on her (unless she's under something that's outside of the frame...)

    2. Her body. The hair, bike, ground and background are packed full of details and texture, but her body is almost completely devoid of form: no light/shadow, no tones, no sense of material...

    Those 2 things bother me the most.

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    As a concept for an illustration this is fine. The dark foreground against the light background works good and creates a nice silhouette and gives a bit of mystery to the picture.

    I'm not sure your rendering techniques match here though, and it disturbs. Maybe, until the realism of your drawing and painting can match the realism of the real textures you are flying in, don't use real textures.

    Best of luck
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    small feets, waist, shoulders and hips out of proportions. I like the bike and the ground efect

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    This has potential. But it looks like you took a real life picture of dirt and pasted it on top of a city you sketched and then added the grass yourself Nothing wrong with that because matte painters do that all the time, but it just doesn't fit this picture. Either re-sketch the dirt with a brush you created and make it less detailed, or keep it and render the hell out of the city.

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    most importantly: i think the proportions of the girl need reworking, espeically since she is the focus of the drawing, she looks stumpy. i think her upper torso is too short and wide. The shading isnt too convincing either,
    the hair doesnt look like its a part of the same person.

    fix that and you'll have yourself a pretty good piece, much more realistic looking piece,


    other small things:
    the bike looks good,
    i agree with what was said about the tiretracks,
    i dont like the grass at the edge of the cliff, it makes the dirt in the foreground look like a flat vertical plane instead of one that is horizontal.

    almost there =)

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    Thank for the comments, they're very helpful. I'm going to work on the piece thoroughly. Actually I have already worked on it pretty much already but I'm going to fix everything I can before posting a new image. But will do soon!

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    Ok, so here's some progression. I havent touched the girl's proportions yet, but almost everything else. Painted new clouds, detailed the city and painted the ground all by myself without usage of stock texture. And heaps of other minor adjustments.

    Comments, please. I really want to get this piece finished.

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    Anyone, anything?

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    Well, as far as I can see, her right hand is a bit short, and her right shoulder looks smaller than the left one.

    Her butt and her right leg should maybe also use some more definition since this looks a bit like you drew a woman standing and just added a bike between her legs. Here's a photo in the attachment to illustrate what I think about the butt.

    Other than that, I like it, it really has potential

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  18. #14
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    basic monocular cue: diminishing details
    on the ground, its obviously lacking

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    This is more my preference but I think your clouds looked better before. Now they look kind of chalky. Her arms look a tad small, and so does her (i'm assuming) grenade launcher.

    I'd try adding a few patches of grass on to the ground. Not too many, but just a few so it doesn't look like the cliff has a hairline.

    Also, She looks a bit off center in the composition. I know her left leg is extending out, but giving the majority of the volume is in her body and bike, I'd either move her a few pixels to the left or crop the image a bit.

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  20. #16
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    Watch her front wheel and mirrors. You have the wheel slightly pointing to the left yet her mirrors suggest the wheel is going straight out towards the city. Your going to need to tilt the mirrors slightly southwest to follow that wheel.

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    Thanks!

    Here's some update. I don't know about the composition, should it be centered or weighed right a little bit as it is now? I'd like to hear more opinions about that.

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    i'd look at the pic The Whistler posted of the girl sitting on the bike. Elwell pointed out a good note: focus more on the drawing and form/structure rather than relying heavily on rendering. your rendering is good. but the woman does not appear to be sitting on the bike. if you intended for her to be standing, then it's fine, but it looks odd probably because subconciously the viewer may expect her to be sitting.

    composition: i'm not a fan of placing the figure and point of interest directly in the center of the image. you may have reason for wanting to do this. this is just personal preference and not really a critique.

    i notice the grass is leaning to the right of the image due to wind. but the girl's hair is static. i would have it blowing in the wind. the way the grass leans it appears as though there's some mighty strong wind up there!
    it would also add to the illusion of how high that cliff she's on is. the higher you are the more wind gusts around you.

    good post, though. for your next post, before bringing the image this far along, i would post WIP shots starting with initial thumbnails to work out composition/lighting and then start posting pencils sketches of the image with NO RENDERING. work all that stuff out before going in with those textures and values.

    keep it up man. good job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kauser.ali View Post
    i'd look at the pic The Whistler posted of the girl sitting on the bike. Elwell pointed out a good note: focus more on the drawing and form/structure rather than relying heavily on rendering. your rendering is good. but the woman does not appear to be sitting on the bike. if you intended for her to be standing, then it's fine, but it looks odd probably because subconciously the viewer may expect her to be sitting.
    Yeah, she was supposed to be standing from the beginning but I think that I unintentionally made her sit by changing her left foot's position. I'm going to work on her and see if I can get her sit on that bike more naturally.

    i notice the grass is leaning to the right of the image due to wind. but the girl's hair is static. i would have it blowing in the wind. the way the grass leans it appears as though there's some mighty strong wind up there!
    it would also add to the illusion of how high that cliff she's on is. the higher you are the more wind gusts around you.
    True words, I'll take that into consideration.

    good post, though. for your next post, before bringing the image this far along, i would post WIP shots starting with initial thumbnails to work out composition/lighting and then start posting pencils sketches of the image with NO RENDERING. work all that stuff out before going in with those textures and values.
    I know, I'm really, really bad at sketching/thumbnailing. I usually just jump at the rendering straight away. I'm definitely going to work on that bad habit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amok View Post
    I know, I'm really, really bad at sketching/thumbnailing. I usually just jump at the rendering straight away. I'm definitely going to work on that bad habit.
    it's a trait most young artists share. all of us are very concerned with the finished product and want more than anything to create finished pieces equal in quality to the artists we admire.

    trouble is, that isn't what being a professional artist is all about. the real -work- of being a pro artist is constant planning and preparation. providing thumbnails for editors and art directors. changing a finished piece.

    that's why we work digital. you might spend 20 hours on a piece and an editor or art director will say, "don't like it. make her skin blue and her hair green and the costume is all wrong! ...like the pose though. keep that!"

    so you can't obsess over rendering as much as you are. shed that need. focus on form and structure and telling a story with line. you're a storyteller. make sure you tell me with the image alone what is happening here. keep working bro. you've got potentional!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amok View Post
    I know, I'm really, really bad at sketching/thumbnailing. I usually just jump at the rendering straight away. I'm definitely going to work on that bad habit.
    it's a trait most young artists share. all of us are very concerned with the finished product and want more than anything to create finished pieces equal in quality to the artists we admire.

    trouble is, that isn't what being a professional artist is all about. the real -work- of being a pro artist is constant planning and preparation. providing thumbnails for editors and art directors. changing a finished piece.

    that's why we work digital. you might spend 20 hours on a piece and an editor or art director will say, "don't like it. make her skin blue and her hair green and the costume is all wrong! ...like the pose though. keep that!"

    so you can't obsess over rendering as much as you are. shed that need. focus on form and structure and telling a story with line. you're a storyteller. make sure you tell me with the image alone what is happening here. keep working bro. you've got potentional!

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  27. #22
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    Apart from the double post, kauser.ali has it pretty much on the nickle, Tho I liked the ground before all the changes!!

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    I haven't been able to draw because my wrist has tenosynovitis, but today it felt ok so I was able to work on the image.

    Improved hair and changed her from semi standing position to full standing position. Rotated the grenade launcher a bit and added exhaust smoke.

    I hope that it's better now. At least to my eye it is.

    Comments!

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    Bump. Any comments? I'd especially like to hear about the pose, is it better than the first one.

    Last edited by dkt; July 31st, 2008 at 07:31 AM.
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  30. #25
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    How should I interpret this silence? It's finished? It's hopeless?

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    I think theres somethin you could fix in her pose. It looks too stiff, and her anatomy is quite akward. It seems like youve totally ignored everything they said about the hair. It looks like straw, not hair. You should paint it in flocks, and not draw every strand one by one. Heres a little drawover i did to visualize what i was talking about. Hope it makes any sense
    Girl and the bike

    I like the city and the clouds the most, Keep it up!

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  32. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parsakoira View Post
    I think theres somethin you could fix in her pose. It looks too stiff, and her anatomy is quite akward. It seems like youve totally ignored everything they said about the hair. It looks like straw, not hair. You should paint it in flocks, and not draw every strand one by one. Heres a little drawover i did to visualize what i was talking about. Hope it makes any sense

    I like the city and the clouds the most, Keep it up!
    I didn't ignore a single word, no one said anything about the hair itself looking bad, only that it's static/too detailed in comparison to the rest of the image. I painted it in flocks at the beginning but eventually you need to paint the strands to make it look detailed. It could be made more dynamic that's true, and I'm going to, but in my own opinion it's rendered fine and I'm going to keep the style.

    I'm going to see what I can do for the pose. Thanks for the paintover, but I don't know where would she keep her right foot like that. The only option is on the top of the exhaust pipe but I suppose that it's quite hot after a long ride and definitely not a place to keep your foot on.

    The bike:

    Girl and the bike

    But yeah, thanks.

    I noticed some errors myself too now, like that the right side mirror is way too much on the right. I need to move it more to the left.

    Last edited by dkt; August 1st, 2008 at 07:00 AM.
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  33. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amok View Post
    How should I interpret this silence? It's finished? It's hopeless?
    it means that you still failed to follow our tips.

    My tip was the piece lack the perspective monocular cue of diminishing details, that's why your ground looks more perpendicular to our sight, rather than parallel.
    The lady looks so flat. there's not much strong shadows so why is she pure black?
    and some other things more.

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  34. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by waranghira View Post
    it means that you still failed to follow our tips.

    My tip was the piece lack the perspective monocular cue of diminishing details, that's why your ground looks more perpendicular to our sight, rather than parallel.
    Sorry, I didn't know what perspective monocular cue of diminishing details means. That's a completely new term to me. But I guess I do now after some googling. I'll work on it.

    The lady looks so flat. there's not much strong shadows so why is she pure black?
    and some other things more.
    Ok, I'll work on the lightning more.

    Could you tell me about those "other things"? Just mentioning that doesn't really help at all.

    Thanks again. I appreciate it.

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    Some update. My wrist is now ok, so I can work on the image again.

    Hair is still to be repainted. I'm having some problems with it but will do eventually.

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