9-11 False Flag (video)
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    9-11 False Flag (video)

    This is a german production, subtitled. It's one of the better productions I've seen regarding 9-11/ Fascist government etc. It's about as calm and analytical as can be considering the polarizing subject matter. I highly recommend it to all.

    9-11 False Flag
    http://www.videocommunity.com/pc/pc/display/7167

    Happy Viewing... and to those inevitable detractors that are soon to swoop in on this thread I can only say 2 words: -

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    Good documentary, so far its been very interesting.

    Here's the problem: As calm and analytical as it is, its still extremely biased. There is no equal representation of facts to form a fair and neutral view, so you cant exactly trust it. I'm not saying one or even the majority of its points are not true, because many of them may well be, but(as with any documentary/journalism involving politics, religion, whatever) its just showing you a load of facts to support this one view.

    And if anyone does happen to think that this documentary is somehow irrefutable then they too would do well to .

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    By detractors, I refer only to those who would categorically dismiss this subject without looking at the video, or making assumptions of it's content... which... happens a lot.

    Nothing is irrefutable (even that statement), but the interviewees are obviously rather careful in trying to stay away from over speculation... which is refreshing regardless of whether it's feeding an agenda or not.

    I seriously just cannot fathom how people can simply sit on their asses and trust the power elite with their minds, thoughts and opinions about the world.

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    Nothing is irrefutable (even that statement)
    Paradox?

    I think that this is likely one of the more solid documentaries Ive seen, but they make a lot of assumptions and arguments as though they are obvious, when I could easily see either side of the situation(and both are quite logical). I also think they were awfully quick to judge how everything was so 'incomprehensible". You get a lot of this from either side, and it always makes me laugh. They make a good show(and try very hard) to come off as unbiased, but inevitably give themselves away. Ive yet to see a documentary devoid of this, I suppose unbiased people just aren't motivated enough to put one of these out(as these documentaries are essentially just propaganda for any given faction).

    But at any rate, I do agree. While there isn't a whole lot you can do, pretending everything is fine certainly doesn't solve anything.
    On the other side though, pretending(or deciding) everything is wrong doesn't really help either. It just leads to knee jerk changes that are generally just as misguided, but in the opposite direction.


    Haha, the world is not a rational place...

    Last edited by drewfarr; July 8th, 2008 at 03:19 PM.
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    It's scary how many people are willing to believe one thing only because the inverse is unpleasant.

    I'd almost forgotten that they say one of the hijackers' passports was found amidst the rubble of the two WTC towers. I remember hearing that on the news and being like "Wait, what?"

    Meh, anyone who buys that proves Henry Ford right. "People deserve the government they get."

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    Does anyone else think that all these things that point towards 9/11 being planned have been left there for people to find? if you seriously were going to do this, would you not leave all these blindingly obvious errors out?

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    kev ferrara is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    At least Icarus tried!


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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    Haha, excellent find Kev, much appreciated

    "Never regret thy fall from grace, O' spirit of Icarian flight, for the greatest tragedy of them all to face, is to never feel the burning bright"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantis View Post
    I'd almost forgotten that they say one of the hijackers' passports was found amidst the rubble of the two WTC towers. I remember hearing that on the news and being like "Wait, what?"
    Don't forget the Red Bandanna. The passport and bandanna of one of the hijackers manages to survive the fireball, heat of the fire, and the collapse...some resilient paper and cloth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi Satan View Post
    Haha, excellent find Kev, much appreciated
    I've seen this before...pretty funny stuff. Denial, ridicule, debate...3 stages of truth against the powers at be. At least we've reached the second stage. Things will be very interesting if the 3rd stage actually hits. Notice how Kev responds with another 2nd stage. I'm here if you actually want to 3rd stage any of this information.

    Last edited by Jason Ross; July 8th, 2008 at 11:41 AM.
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    That's too bad; I have a lot of respect for Kev Ferrara and I'd like to hear his thoughts on some of the specifics of the 9/11 bizarrities. Like the incriminating passport supposedly found amid the rubble of the two biggest office buildings in the world (nevermind that it survived the crash and subsequent fireball). Or the last testament explaining the whole villainous plot found in Atta's mishandled luggage (why would he be taking his last testament on the plane to begin with?) How can you look at those as anything but planted evidence?

    If being suspicious about this stuff makes you a fruitcake, then I'm a fruitcake. It'd be nice to have someone explain why, though; name-calling and buzzwords are so passť.

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    Bizarrities happen in big catastrophes. They really do. If every disaster underwent the same scrutiny, a similar number of oddities would turn up in each one.

    There were piles of paper that escaped the blast. Downtown was littered with it. The hijackers stood a better chance of having bits of themselves survive -- they hit above the fireline (because they were the fireline) and they were likely to be in the cockpit, which is more reinforced. I know big chunks of the planes (like the landing gear) came through the roofs of adjacent buildings and were found intact inside. As for Atta...shrug.

    Let me ask you: would people clever enough to pull off a conspiracy this huge be stupid enough to plant evidence that clumsily? Sooper geniuses one minute and utter retards the next? It's the conspiracy that doesn't add up.

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    Yeah, I'm not saying it's totally impossible for paper to survive, but how convenient that this incriminating passport not only survived the fire but also escaped being buried in the rubble. I don't think it's entirely fair to call someone a kook because they do a double take at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoat View Post
    Let me ask you: would people clever enough to pull off a conspiracy this huge be stupid enough to plant evidence that clumsily? Sooper geniuses one minute and utter retards the next? It's the conspiracy that doesn't add up.
    Yes, that does strain credulity. But then, it strains credulity that bin Laden was being unanimously blamed for the attacks within hours, even though no direct evidence of his involvement had been found (the FBI still doesn't number 9/11 among his crimes on their website). It strains credulity that a terrorist with a political agenda would deny involvement in the most successful terrorist attack in history, which bin Laden did in an address on Al-Jazeera and in an interview with the Pakistani paper Ummat. It strains credulity that Bush tried to appoint Kissinger as head of the 9/11 commission (after 14 months of trying not to have one). It strains credulity that the commission deemed the financing of the attacks as 'a matter of little significance.' It strains credulity that the government still hasn't released the black-box recordings after 7 years. It strains credulity that the DoD was carrying out drills of airplanes crashing into the WTC on the same day as the attacks. It strains credulity that our government has admittedly staged numerous attacks on itself in the past in order to manipulate public opinion and carry out agendas.

    The planting of evidence looks like a sloppy job, but if they were counting on people buying it anyway, it doesn't look like they've been disappointed. What was it that Hitler said about the best propaganda being that which was most tailored to the least common denominator of intelligence? (Godwin!)

    Last edited by Atlantis; July 8th, 2008 at 01:45 PM.
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    I'm afraid none of those things strain my credulity. They sound like the ordinary grinding of the rusty gears of humanity.

    It's not that people aren't capable of being this evil. It's that they aren't capable of being evil on this scale, with this competence, and keep it a secret. I've worked for a corporation for a lot of years; a working group can do something large OR something competent OR something secret. Seldom two of those things together and never all three. Not for very long, anyway.

    If they could, don't you think shutting up the finger pointers would be their first priority now?

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoat View Post

    It's not that people aren't capable of being this evil. It's that they aren't capable of being evil on this scale, with this competence, and keep it a secret.
    I've heard that the Manhattan Project involved upwards of 10,000 people, and they kept that under wraps pretty well. Lots of the admitted false-flag operations and manipulations managed to stay fairly secret for quite a while (the bombing of the Maine, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, gov. foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor, etc). The theory put forward by the video Chingwa links to in the OP reasons that only 30 or so people would have to have been directly involved in a conspiracy. Regardless, you may still be right; I have no idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoat View Post
    If they could, don't you think shutting up the finger pointers would be their first priority now?
    I wouldn't think so; I'd suspect that they'd realize that killing a "conspiracy theorist" would only make people take them more seriously.

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    Yeah, for about five years. With all the wartime controls on information. Even if the Manhattan Project hadn't ended in the most hellacious bang the world had ever seen, I doubt they could have kept it under wraps much longer than that.

    What, you think people who could engineer September 11 couldn't off a couple of kids and make it look like an accident?

    I also -- for the record -- don't think the US government is anything like evil enough to have done this. But, just as I knew the Manhattan Project was going to come flying at me, I'm really not keen to debate a grocery list of Evil Things The US Government Has Done this afternoon.
    .

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoat View Post

    I also -- for the record -- don't think the US government is anything like evil enough to have done this. But, just as I knew the Manhattan Project was going to come flying at me, I'm really not keen to debate a grocery list of Evil Things The US Government Has Done this afternoon.
    .
    Dude, they've been keeping the alien visitors secret since the '50s. They're capable of anything! /jk

    Alright, no laundry list. Maybe they thought it was justified, a necessary catalyst for the military action necessary to keep America as the dominant force in the world and to secure the necessary oil reserves for the economy. PNAC, which Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz, and Jeb Bush all sat on the board of, put out that Rebuilding America's Defenses document in 2000 where they said America needed as much (but that it'd be difficult to initiate absent a catalyzing event, like "a new Pearl Harbor." (quote unquote)

    I'm only speculating, so here's another quote from RAD:

    “...advanced forms of biological warfare that can ‘target’ specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.”

    Biological warfare against specific genotypes seems evil to me. It also calls for complete control of space and the Internet, and regime change in China, Iran, Libya, Syria, North Korea and Iraq (among others). Needless to say, I disagree that they're morally incapable of knocking over a few buildings if it provides that "new Pearl Harbor." Like those Roman judges or whoever used to ask, "Cui bono?"

    Anyway, cheers and thanks for the debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoat View Post

    If they could, don't you think shutting up the finger pointers would be their first priority now?
    Not if society does that for them. Any time these finger pointers are on the news or on talk shows they are villainized. Everybody's word association with "conspiracy theorist" is crazy person. Incidentally it comes from the entertainment industry and the media even before we're old enough for analytical thinking of these people's point of views. The media and entertainment being controlled by "They." Not saying I agree, but conspiracy theories make some sense, since it is a story. Theres a few plot holes, but all in all its a solid gimmick.

    Like it or not though, the general goal is to trust people with degrees and people who are in positions of authority. Its easy to assume they are in a state of total truth and purity and their professional opinion cant be tainted or swayed. We're also taught to doubt the individual. What does he know, he's only one guy? What do I know, im not a engineer?

    So it all starts getting more suspicious and its easier to get carried away when the reality fits just right. The less crazy it seems.

    When 9/11 happened, I was in class. At first, before word got all the way around we was watching coverage on tv. About an hour later teachers were ordered to turn the tv's off. We were also told we weren't allowed to talk about it. People had questions, students had family in New York but from the top came a silencing order. Why? Even after it happened we weren't allowed to discuss it in history class. The biggest event in American history and we couldn't discuss it. Yeah it could have caused a small panic but we needed to see it. As far as the superintendent was concerned, it didn't happen. Im not saying the Illumanti gave the order, but if government officials dont think k-12 kids should know whats going on what are they hiding from everyone?

    We have the right to knowledge. Using national security or our own fear as an excuse is unacceptable. Every piece of information about 9/11 should be released to the public. Every photograph, every video, every audio tape, every document in public record. No blacked out words or anything. Even if the investigation isnt over, even if the plot is not 100% complete, we deserve the evidence and information. Making all the clues available to the public does not hinder the investigation at all. Its not like once its out they cant keep studying everything. Even if there wasn't a bit of doubt that this was a foreign attack, the evidence should have be released as it was collected. The mere fact that the government is even withholding part of it after all this time makes me suspicious. We've already supposedly caught the mastermind, all the rubble is cleaned up, and we've went to war with the country "responsible" for making the people that did it. Short of Osama bin Laden turning himself in, its over. Quit stalling by spending whats going to be 10 years making a report. They have the facts lets see a 911.gov or something.

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    The word is "villified" and the reason is "because they say things that are demonstrably stupid."

    You know one good way to tell the difference between a conspiracy theorist and an actual theorist in good faith? When you knock out one part of a conspiracy theorist's argument, he doesn't try to defend it...he moves on to some other point that "raises questions." That's why arguing this thing is endless. It isn't a real argument; it's a pile of pointless innuendo and "questions."

    What's your theory? You don't have one. You just have "questions."

    Hint: the public school system couldn't conspiracy itself out of a wet paper bag with a hole in it.

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    Stoat is obviously one of them.

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    I never said the school thing was a conspiracy, my point is that while it would be great to trust officials nough to believe them, not everyone can. If I woke up tomorrow, turned on the news and found that the government is releasing everything they have on 9/11, I would change my tune. One doesn't hide something if its not worth hiding. While its not some vast involved conspiracy, questions still need to be asked.

    My theory is that it wasn't the government but it was allowed to happen. I think they new what was coming and stood by while people died. Why? Bush got a second turn, theres an excuse to invade the middle east, the general population is scared and gives more power to the executive branch and 7 years later, the fun is still going. Can I prove it? No. Im too lazy to go interview people and investigate seven years worth of shit. Plus I got a life and it doesn't involve being a reporter.

    Yes I have questions. There will be an abundance of questions when there is a lack of answers.

    I guess all we can do is just sit tight and wait for the fully disclosed report in fifty years with over half of the text blacked out.

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    kev ferrara is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckWeisel View Post
    I guess all we can do is just sit tight and wait for the fully disclosed report in fifty years with over half of the text blacked out.
    Don't sit tight. Live.

    Reminds me of this dude I know... his anxiety-driven OCD has left him virtually a shut in, sadly. But he's a huge movie fan, mad for Indiana Jones... he obsessed over it, practically lived for it. Finally when he saw Crystal Skull he said, "I waited 15 years for that piece of shit?" And the sad part was, in a way, he had been waiting around doing nothing for 15 years waiting for that movie. He collected every little scrap of data available about it for 15 years, read every little bit of internet chatter.... quite literally sat around in a chair waiting for godot.

    Don't be that person. None of you.

    Really.

    At least Icarus tried!


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    Dammit, kev, I haven't seen you at any of the meetings. If everybody doesn't pitch in and sell his fair share of candybars this year, there won't be a field trip!

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    I'm.... at a loss of words...




    HEY MODS! How about we do the following. When people register, they first have no lounge permission, and all who have now lose it, UNTIIIIIL they state a solid, well-grounded reason WHY they want permission for the lounge, in at least 10 words, and WITHOUT, in those 10 words, mentioning Hitler, the Holocaust, 9/11, the Iraq, Ilaekae, or Aliens.

    That should cut down the population of the Lounge to about 30%.

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    Hey, let's also ban those people who troll threads just to post non-witty commentary about how they suck. Talk about population control in the Lounge...

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    I don't know nearly enough to be able to discuss this matter, but I tend sympathize with the people who doubt and ask questions.

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    I don't know nearly enough to be able to discuss this matter, but I tend sympathize with the people who doubt and ask questions.
    Exactly. What is so threatening about people wanting to know the facts... wanting to be able to connect the dots in a logical way with real evidence...? You can trust your government if you want to, but there hasn't been much that this government (judicial/executive/legislative et al) has done in the years since 9-11 that has convinced me to trust what they say over what they do.

    why should I believe story A when they keep any evidence that may support story A locked up in a safe that noone can access? Why should I believe story A when they won't go under oath and discuss it... and then anything they say about it can't be released to the public.

    I may not be able to tell you what story B is, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that story A is bullshit.

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    I'm.... at a loss of words...
    Apparently not though, as you had some great censorship ideas after you wrote the above. don't understand why some people feel the urge to silence other people or ideas. You don't have to believe it, and you don't have to read it... you can come in and make a funny / snide comment if you want to... that's the freedom we all enjoy here because we all have equal access to the lounge to begin with. but don't say I have no right to come in and post what I post simply because you don't want to read it... that's the definition of hypocrisy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post

    Dude, nobody has said you have no right to come in here and post your conspiracy theories. Post away.
    Actually, if you note the first post on this page you'll see that is exactly what Algenpfleger suggested would be a good policy for the lounge. But if you skipped that post because of the huge fucking cat I don't blame you.

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    kev ferrara is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantis View Post
    Actually, if you note the first post on this page you'll see that is exactly what Algenpfleger suggested would be a good policy for the lounge. But if you skipped that post because of the huge fucking cat I don't blame you.
    Well, I thought that post applied to about 90 percent of what is written in the lounge, so I didn't quite take it seriously. Of course, Algenpfleger thinks its quite alright to use LOLcats to make his points, which is worse than Hitler... so he should be flogged along with the rest of us.

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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