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July 7th, 2008 #1
Wanna help me settle an argument?
My friend is trying to learn how to draw...He comes to me alot, but recently he has been talking alot about lineart, and inking, and keeps comparing that to comics...I told him "You have to learn reality, from reality, and simplify that to make the best lineart" He says "No, if I practice lineart, I will learn the same things along the way" I told him that was almost impossible, and if it was, it would take alot longer than to just have studied reality...
He told me he wants to get as good as Arne Niklas Janson (Flying spaghetti monster man up there) I said, he should work with reality, he says he doesn't want to , he just wants to do lineart. I told him I couldn't help him anymore cause he doesn't try and compare it to reality.
Who was right? Can he really learn everything that a great artist can learn through line art? Or does it need to be reality, then simplified like I think.
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reality monkey--- you need both..from the great artist you learn the tecnique and how to represent ideas in the style of drawing you pursue..it is a language..from reality you feed, you study nature (meaning the truth as you see, then you abstract) , nature is an open book for creativity once you are confortable with a style of art, be it comic book, or realistic.
Realistic painting is a form of abstraction but it is the most advanced...why because not only u use line, but also volume,tone,and color...if he likes lineart let him learn that from that master,but he must also learn to see his own way..observe nature to get ideas..so study both..and balance out..
If you are studying reality (as you say it ,the proper term is de la natura ,from nature ), you should pick a favorite artist and copy him,learn from him.. be it from the reinassance, baroque,rococo,nineteenth century or present day realists, it doesnt matter you just learn and assimilate a language..why because you are just a student..
July 8th, 2008 #3
Honestly, there is nothing wrong starting with lineart and you shouldn't be pushing your ideals onto your friend. It is comparable to a person pushing their religion upon you just because he/she thinks your religion is inferior. If it is lineart your friend wants to do, then he will learn what he needs to along the way, if he is forced to study something he is not interested in, the chances are that he will simply just give up trying. There are many roads that leads to the same destination, but it doesn't mean any one path is better than all the others.
July 8th, 2008 #4
Lee, I'm sorry but that's not a particularly good analogy. All approaches are not created equal, some have definite advantages over others. However, that's not even the question here, what his friend is trying to express is the human figure, whether it's in oil paint or ink lines is just the icing on the cake. If you were trying to explain to someone what a car looks like, it doesn't matter if you do it in spanish or english, what matters is that you have knowledge of what a car looks like. It's not like there's some magic trick for drawing the figure that is exclusive to "lineart"....one must first know how the figure works, then choose whatever medium suits one's temperament best, whatever it may be.
In short, reality monkey, you're right, your friend is wrong, if he won't listen, sucks for him.
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July 8th, 2008 #5
If by lineart you mean drawing from life and whatnot.. just without shading, then It will help him to improve in some ways. Im not sure what you mean by lineart.. because you said inking. Im pretty sure comic inkers just ink over the pencil lines drawn by the original artist.. not to say the inkers arent artists.. but the pencil is usually done already by someone else. In my opinion by JUST doing lineart.. hes limiting himself BIG TIME. Sure alot can be expressed by an outline.. but without rendering of form.. its tough to make anything seem alive. I guess if lineart is the only thing that will get him to draw.. then thats better than not drawing at all.. But your right when you said "You have to learn reality, from reality, and simplify that to make the best lineart". Lineart is just another style.. the better you are at drawing realistically.. the better you will be in your own "style". Good luck
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July 8th, 2008 #6
You're both teenagers, right? Stop arguing, neither of you know nearly as much as you think you do, and both of you will change your opinions multiple times in the next few years, each time being convinced that now you've got Things Figured Out. You draw your way, let him draw his, and see how things shake out down the line.
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July 11th, 2008 #7
If you focus too much on just one style or one method, you run the risk of learning just that style and method. That doesn't mean your friend can't become very good at doing just line based art, but it does mean that if that's all he focuses on, he'll miss out on a lot of things that can be learned more quickly and thoroughly through more rounded studies, which can then be turned around and applied to his lineart.
For example, if he's only doing linework and doesn't study shading, it will take him longer to understand light and shade. This in turn will make it more difficult for him to place line weights and cross hatching in his line art.
It's best to get a solid foundation in all the fundamentals of art before you focus too much in one branch. This doesn't mean don't focus ever, but getting those fundamentals means a lot when you want to, or perhaps have to, draw/paint images that don't fit well with the style of art you've focused on early on.
Before anyone goes on to say that I'm limiting someone's artistic expression. Think of it this way, by not exploring all possibilities early on, you limit yourself.
That and, you'll find more work having both a strong focus and specialty, but also able to shift in various directions as the project needs.
July 15th, 2008 #8
I think it would be immature to argue your idea over his. Everyone has their own way or path to art. Though I can sincerely say a background in realism would help your friend. One of my great teachers who ended up being an abstract expressionist painter, told me that he would never take back the skills he learned in a traditional realist studio. Whether it's apparent or not those skills are valuable no matter what road you go down in art. If I were giving advice to your friend I would suggest him observing from life and taking some basic figure drawing classes. He doesn't have to be a strict, cookie cutter mold, realist, but he would benefit from some brief training. We all need to be well rounded artists and learn different styles. Cartooning is an abstraction of reality - it's simplification and exaggeration of real life. I have found there's a clear distinction between those who explore and discover anatomy and reality, and those who just draw completely from imagination. If the cartoonist is good, he or she will most likely have drawings that (despite their fantasy aspect) seem believeable. A great example is how my friend (who is a rock guitarist) swears by, practicing Bach cello suites to improve his skill in rock. They keep him sharp.
So in conclusion, It's different for everybody. If your friend wants to keep a closed mind then so be it.
July 16th, 2008 #9
"Can he really learn everything that a great artist can learn through line art?" The answer to that is obviously not. There are always more things one can learn no matter what you do.
Having said that, if we're talking about a kid who just wants to draw then let him draw. If he some day finds he wants a full formal education in art then he can go to school and get one.
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July 16th, 2008 #10The Cat's Deputy (POW! Moderator)
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Some people have started from lineart and gone on to great heights. Practise is the key. If he sticks to it, sticks to it, sticks to it, he'll be great. And the same for working from reality. A lot can be said for both sides of the argument, so it can't really be settled by anyone here. And as Elwell said, his mind will change many time in the years to come. Good luck with it, and both of ye should start up sketchbooks and see who gets the most kudos!
July 17th, 2008 #11
Ok, alot of posts (most make me feel like I didn't quite word the original post right) I'm not saying REALISM>LINEART I'm just saying that I think to be the best you have to be open to everything, not just stuck on one thing (which he decided, just lineart and line shading) He changed his mind (Through his own thoughts, he made this decision on his own) That he would be very broad and more open to other new ideas.
Everyone has been a great help (some more than others) in helping me think about what makes a great artist.