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Thread: marko clones?

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    marko clones?

    Ever since that podcast came out, the forums have had a weird vibe to them. Since then two questions have come into my mind. so here it goes...
    1)if someone goes out of there way to be exactly like wes,marko,puddnhead whoever. what are the consequences to the person doing it? how bad would you consider that to be?
    2)what if someone doesn't intentionally or even want to be any of those artists but still looks similar? if you enjoy drawing that way should you take flak for it?

    I'm interested in what you guys think about this issue. so lets make this a place to ask questions and share opinions. feel free to join in.


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    I don't know if it is or not, but this thread sounds like you're just trying to justify to yourself the fact that you're copying the way they work (I couldn't find any of your work so I dunno if you are or not)

    If you don't consciously try to emulate these people then you wont, I don't see why this is even an issue

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    1: Consequences:
    - If you don't have morals, you can do the same work as him, but as a lower price. It's still a consumer society, so some employers might show you work of someone and tell you "like this" while they don't have the cash for the original.

    - If you always are nothing more but a copycat, then trying to solve certain things or taking a certain style across genres or topics will be impossible or extremely hard since you don't know the exact reasoning behind every decission made.

    -You disallow yourself to grow because if you do reach his or her level, you have to chose between his succesfull style or your own untested, unpractised style. Most people will have some serious mental problems facing this problem.

    - You'll be hated by the fanboys/girls of the person you're impersonating until the person him/herself ignores his fanclub enough for them to get angry or disgruntled at the artist for not being there for them after all the attention they give him/her. At that point, you'll become a sort of proxy for him. Attentionwise anyway.

    - If by the chance of eventuality, you had some awesome style within you, we won't be seeing it since you're overfocussed on someone else's style.

    2) Absolutely not, but you still will. Nobody knows every other artist but explaining that to the fangroup is impossible. So prepare to be hated, or just keep your work secret until you feel it's ready to evolve to a new style.

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    Draw away from the computer and any Marko, Wes and everybody that can be considered reference. Draw the things you like to draw. When you did something you liked do more of them!
    Marko can only do Marko.
    Wes can do Wes.
    You can do Marko, but it wouldn't look right!

    I don't know about you guys. But I cant wait for JasonChan week!

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    If you want to be the cheap plastic imitation version of another artist, and it's obvious, i don't think it's a matter of "should i take flak" you will take flak, or just be ignored and not respected. I don't really think it's a good thing at all if you arent putting your own spin on it.
    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
    --- Frank Herbert, Dune - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

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    What else is new, there have been Da Vinci Clones, Michelangelo clones, Disney Clones, Jim Lee Clones...hell Craig Capullo was doing a better McFarlane than Todd McFarlane.

    It's just a lot to do with what is in demand, and what you like, eventually as an artist pursuing to be better, find that they'll do things in their own style and move on in their own time.

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    On a side note, I find everyones work who happen to be thumbnailed on the top of the page as inspirational...and if my work was evident of the influences given to me subconsciously or subliminally by any given artist on that roster, I would be proud to say "yeah, I grew as an artist in CA, its where I bloomed"

    If you had no prior influences in art, you would probably be influenced by the first major master-quality artwork you came in contact with...is that wrong? probably not. Should you consciously and willingly try to "copy' or replicate the style and its influences...well good luck failing epically.

    everyone has influences, no harm in that. Its how you take the influences you have and combine them to create something truly unique.

    Arshes- Remember that McFarlane was doing McFarlane, before McFarlane knew who McFarlane was.


    somebody ban me from the lounge please.







    please.

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  12. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JL.Alfaro View Post
    Arshes- Remember that McFarlane was doing McFarlane, before McFarlane knew who McFarlane was.
    True words indeed JL.
    On a side note: It's only a matter of time until someone comes along and is to Marko what Craig Capullo was to Mcfarlane.
    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
    --- Frank Herbert, Dune - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

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    We could call 'em MarClones.

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    1) Well put it this way, if your a copy cat, your not going to make it in a real job. Oh, sorry boss, im going to have to wait until Marco draws that particular pose before I can. WAAAAGGGHHH!

    2) Well no, you shouldent take flak for being who you are with your artwork, and yes I suppose there will be people that are similar in style in one way or the other, but I think its quite hard to be an exact copy of an artist if you take into account each persons individual use of color, style and process.
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    Barry Windsor-Smith started out as a Jack Kirby clone.
    Bill Sienkiewicz started out as a Neal Adams clone.
    William Waterhouse started out as an Alma-Tadema clone.
    Bob Dylan started out as a Woody Guthrie clone.

    But then...

    Smith discovered Art Nouveau, etc.
    Sienkiewicz discovered Bob Peak, etc.
    Waterhouse discovered Impressionism, etc.
    Dylan discovered Beat poetry, etc.

    And that's when things got interesting.

    The danger is not having influences, but having only one or one kind of an influence.

    Open your eyes.

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  17. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JL.Alfaro View Post
    Arshes- Remember that McFarlane was doing McFarlane, before McFarlane knew who McFarlane was.
    Actually McFarlane reminded me a lot of Mad... "What me worry?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JL.Alfaro View Post
    somebody ban me from the lounge please.







    please.
    Ditto
    My work: [link]

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    i'm tryin hard to be not a clone of rob liefeld...

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  21. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Barry Windsor-Smith started out as a Jack Kirby clone.
    Bill Sienkiewicz started out as a Neal Adams clone.
    William Waterhouse started out as an Alma-Tadema clone.
    Bob Dylan started out as a Woody Guthrie clone.

    But then...

    Smith discovered Art Nouveau, etc.
    Sienkiewicz discovered Bob Peak, etc.
    Waterhouse discovered Impressionism, etc.
    Dylan discovered Beat poetry, etc.

    And that's when things got interesting.

    The danger is not having influences, but having only one or one kind of an influence.

    Open your eyes.
    So true...Marko AND Wes!


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    Elwell, I'm savin that quote for my students.

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    well I mean... its not like marko lived in a cave for years and years and then came out and discovered that there were other artists in the world. I'm pretty sure what he meant was, you can learn from his technique and other's techniques(I'm pretty sure we all do), but don't give them all tribal tattoos and mad max outfits. Just do what YOU think is cool and the rest will follow
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    There was once an exhibit of an artist who lived in the woods all his life in Cleveland. This guy came out of the woods at like 33 and showed off all of his work. he worked diligent, and worked every single day on his art.

    I saw his work... it looked like a child smearing mud...

    WHY?

    Because the artist had no reference of the rest of the world's art. Without understanding what is or isn't "quality" to the eyes of modern society you could be just producing self masturbatory works that only speak to you.

    Yet, there is a MAJOR difference between understanding the artistic stables and improvements within modern art and copying from an artist.

    I'm not afraid to say it. The artist Lukias on CA, to me was unbearable to look at in his first years after seeing Wesley Burt's work on CA. It was so close to the ideas that Wesley had that it all seemed hallow. After looking at his work now, he has slowly started to graduate into himself. I still feel Lukias has a lot of work ahead of him breaking away from what Wesley has once already accomplished.

    I'm seeing the same exact thing going on with DanielC. As beginner artist's it's easy to base your goals after another artist's work when it has already been established as successful. With the lack of full understanding, the artists are completely limited to knowledge from the pieces that they have seen. Ive seen hundreds of fantastic quick rendered portrait from DanielC, because he has the visual vocabulary he learned from studying directly from Wesley's work. Yet, in Danc's other work, it looks like he is struggling to adapt what he has learned from Wesley's vocabulary into his own pieces, making some of his figures look piecemeal.


    I know it's rough that I mentioned both Lukias and DanielC straight out in the open, but the fact that no one does mention this in public and only talks about it private its worse. I've heard tons of people mention these 2 artists specifically, on IRC, vent, workshops, private messages etc, and for them not to know that they are looked at like this, wont give them an understanding of what the people viewing their art work thinks. There are merits in each of these artist's styles that should be greatly respected beyond just their style choices, but to me it does hurt me when my mind instantly pops a picture in my head of something i've seen Wesley do previously.
    Last edited by davi; May 24th, 2008 at 02:53 PM.

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  27. #19
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    For me the most irritating thing are those characters with graphical crown over their head. I don't know what is the origin of that but it appears so often in sketchbook section. Is it some cheap trick to make your illustration look stylish or cool? It stopped working for me though.

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  29. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farvus View Post
    For me the most irritating thing are those characters with graphical crown over their head. I don't know what is the origin of that but it appears so often in sketchbook section. Is it some cheap trick to make your illustration look stylish or cool? It stopped working for me though.
    Or the little speech bubble with a heart in it. Especially when coming from a robot.

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  31. #21
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    I always thought that the crown was a Mike Mignola thing - I think I saw a cover by him where this was used - something like a monkey in a crown.

    As to Davi's post - I dont think I can agree with the Lukias part at all. I see that they both have similar sketching styles, but his and Wes' imaginations work very differently. Different themes, topics, character design styles. Some similarities - sure - but I dont think that the inspiration/mimic border is crossed at all - at least I never saw this. As to DanielC - I think that he's still in very early stage of his artistic growth - so it's really to early to say. Sure the Wes/Marko/Lukias/Cos/whoever-using-pencil inspiration is obvious but so what - everyone starts somewhere. I'm tottaly with Elwell on this - even if your inspiration level is close to mimicing an artist, still after a while if you have any ambition you'll develop a style of your own.

    PS. This whole thread and half of the posts in it are just out of pure snobism which is just as lame as coping style of someone who inspires you.
    Last edited by thirdeye; May 24th, 2008 at 02:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonie View Post
    Or the little speech bubble with a heart in it. Especially when coming from a robot.
    I hate that and am simultaneously guilty of that at the same time. (a speech bubble with any singular 'icon' in it, which is pretty much the same thing)

  33. #23
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    Farvus, Nonie,

    That is nic klein afaik. I don't think HE is copying anyone,

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    Ashley Wood did that long ago. And what the hell is wrong with that - it's just how comic and ilustration connect. It's an interesting way of expressing something using the simplicity of comic medium.
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    Well. Speech bubbles are fine for me .

    If this main origin of graphical sign is monkey with crown then in that combination it makes complete sense - chinese novel "Monkey King". But if you add that crown to some random guy then it's just copying aesthetic without thinking. On architecture faculty we were always encouraged to look into architectural magazines for inspiration but they also advised us to read the text description to know WHY someone made it this or that way. Some green futuristic tubes that protrude out of the building might look cool but they were actually invented by architect to solve certain problem that appeared in the project. Not just for fun.
    Last edited by Farvus; May 24th, 2008 at 03:40 PM.

  36. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdeye View Post
    PS. This whole thread and half of the posts in it are just out of pure snobism which is just as lame as coping style of someone who inspires you.
    QFT. A whole thread dedicated to this just seems a little harsh and like someone climbing onto the bandwagon after marko made a (very true) statement. Letting people grow into there own style and possibly something along the lines of what davi did makes more sense to me... but hey, thats only my 2 cents.

  37. #27
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    Yeah stop copying Markos statement about copycats!

  38. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdeye View Post
    I always thought that the crown was a Mike Mignola thing - I think I saw a cover by him where this was used - something like a monkey in a crown.
    Yeah it's Mike Mignola. And of course he has a huge Jack Kirby influence, but he's also the most cinematic guy to come along in forever. And the ironic thing is that the Hellboy movie was *less* cinematic than his style! Go figure..

  39. #29
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    Omg You Put Boobs In Your Paintings, You Are So Copying Venus Of Willendorf

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    the first monkey that learned to walk did so by discipline and trial and error the second monkey just copied the first one...

    There is nothing wrong with cloning some ones methods as long as you learn from it, and put your own stamp of individuality on it other wise you always be the second monkey.
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