Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 26

Thread: China vs India vs Sumi-e

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    1,012
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 181 Times in 158 Posts

    China vs India vs Sumi-e

    Hey everyone, In light of my Yoji Shinkawa research.. Ive decided to try painting and drawing with some good old black ink. I was at the art store today and realized that there are a few types. I told an employee that I was going to paint with it and would be diluting the ink quite a bit.. I explained that I wouldnt be writing with it in a pen very much. He suggested I get
    Sumi-e japanese ink. I checked it out and it seemed sort of watery. I also had read and was told that Shinkawa uses China ink. I believe I read somewhere that India ink and China ink are the same thing... is that true? I picked up a bottle of black and a bottle of white india ink. They had various types such as permanent, waterproof, non waterproof, etc. I got the non waterproof because I figured that would be the best to dilute. Do you guys have any suggestions for me as far as ink goes.. such as the best type to get in order to achieve wide range of opacities from mostly opaque to a very light watercolor look? Also are there any special ways to apply it )(special brushes?) Ive never used ink before so im kind of lost.. I hope I got the right kind
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,211
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,684 Times in 5,022 Posts
    Non-waterproof india ink is the way to go when you're starting out. If you end up a true ink wash connoisseur you can get into the various grades of Chinese and Japanese inks, but for now Higgins, Pelican etc. should be fine. If you haven't opened it, I'd return the "white india ink" (whatever that is), as white inks tend to be underpigmented. You're better off with white watercolor or gauche, should you need it, which for wash drawing you shouldn't anyway.

    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Southeast coast, USA
    Posts
    2,794
    Thanks
    511
    Thanked 505 Times in 341 Posts
    Sumi-e is more "watery" than India ink. I believe China Ink is similar to Sumi-e in opacity. Not that Sumi-e can't be used to acheive darks...I had a professor who works in the industry as an inker and he uses Sumi-e because it flows better (everything is contrast adjusted in a computer anyway).

    Non-waterproof also flows and thins better. Waterproof can be like sludge if left too long.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    1,012
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 181 Times in 158 Posts
    thanks alot guys.. I wasnt aware of any problems with white ink.. I saw sets many different color india inks online so I figured id pick up white to maybe get some cool highlight effects. Heres an example of white being used in a black ink piece.. maybe the white isnt india ink??
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,211
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,684 Times in 5,022 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by biggjoee5790 View Post
    thanks alot guys.. I wasnt aware of any problems with white ink.. I saw sets many different color india inks online so I figured id pick up white to maybe get some cool highlight effects. Heres an example of white being used in a black ink piece.. maybe the white isnt india ink??
    From the look of the line quality in that pic, I'd guess that the white lines are from some sort of ballpoint, like a gel-pen or correction pen.

    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    1,012
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 181 Times in 158 Posts
    hmm it does say correcting inks on the bottom of the page.. guess its white-out. thanks man. Well im gonna try out the white.. I doubt ill use it much maybe just mess around for certain highlights or even to cover some black. The bottle was 2 bucks.. its gonna cost me more to take the train into Manhattan to return it Any other advice for a beginner at ink? By looking at the pic i posted.. can you figure out if any other mediums seemed to be used? techniques? Im not trying to copy it but I was really intrigued by the style and its something id like to build on.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Southeast coast, USA
    Posts
    2,794
    Thanks
    511
    Thanked 505 Times in 341 Posts
    Elwell's right about the gel pen, or else a hard point dipped in some thinned gouache.

    White "India" ink is totally worthless to doing subtractive ink work. It ends up looking like you spilled something on your inks. Mr. Shinkawa has the luck of living where comic work is big business and thus they have some kicking white "ink" (it's actually paint I imagine) on the shelf next to the inking materials, but for the rest of us it's another story. Most definately pick up some white gouache instead. You can thin it with water, or use as-is. Also re-purpse an old toothbrush for some great splatter effects (stars, snow, sin-city-style blood splatter...) by putting a teeny dab of paint on the damp bristles and flicking with your thumb.

    As for other techniques, I'd say it looks like sumi-e ink washes with a bit of "dry brush" (ie...using a brush with low ink to create a gritty texture).
    Last edited by Mirana; May 20th, 2008 at 02:51 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    1,012
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 181 Times in 158 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirana View Post
    Elwell's right about the gel pen, or else a hard point dipped in some thinned gouache.

    White India ink is totally worthless to doing subtractive ink work. It ends up looking like you spilled something on your inks. Mr. Shinkawa has the luck of living where comic work is big business and thus they have some kicking white "ink" (it's actually paint I imagine) on the sheld next to the inking materials, but for the rest of us it's another story. Most definately pick up some white gouache instead. You can thin it with water, or use as-is. Also re-purpse an old toothbrush for some great splatter effects (stars, snow, sin-city-style blood splatter...) by putting a teeny dab of paint on the damp bristles and flicking with your thumb.

    As for other techniques, I'd say it looks like sumi-e ink washes with a bit of "dry brush" (ie...using a brush with low ink to create a gritty texture).
    thank you so much.. you guys are really an amazing help.. Ill check out some gouche to replace the white ink.. Are all other colored India Inks the same way? should I avoid them? I asked in another thread about shinkawas colored pieces and A few people stated that he uses pentel brush pens for his color.. heres some colored pieces maybe you could decipher whats being used.. It has a very watercolor type look, could even be digital I really cant tell. Im a little confused about the brush pens though.. do they have an actual brush on the tip or is it a brush shaped soft marker tip that feels brush like? heres the pics:
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    2,714
    Thanks
    373
    Thanked 439 Times in 170 Posts
    Those are all digital, Painter I think. Since you got your inks I'd say, time to stop thinking about the materials and just get some practice under way. You can use this kind of ink, that kind of ink, this kind of brush, that kind of brush etc etc. - but you'll have to put down marks on paper and see what it does and doesn't do and learn how to work with each materials particular limitations and potential.. The attention to actual drawing will be infinitely more important.

    Have fun.
    tensai


    check the Tensai Tokyo Sketch Thread (Sketchbook)

    check the Tensai Cityscapes Thread (Finally Finished)



    Quote Originally Posted by strych9ine
    Fuck backgrounds, who needs em.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    1,012
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 181 Times in 158 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by tensai View Post
    Those are all digital, Painter I think. Since you got your inks I'd say, time to stop thinking about the materials and just get some practice under way. You can use this kind of ink, that kind of ink, this kind of brush, that kind of brush etc etc. - but you'll have to put down marks on paper and see what it does and doesn't do and learn how to work with each materials particular limitations and potential.. The attention to actual drawing will be infinitely more important.

    Have fun.

    Ya im actually using the ink already I was just curious about the mediums thats all. I had a feeling it was digital but since someone mentioned pentel brush pens i thought it could be those.. due to the watercolor look.. thankss for replying
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Southeast coast, USA
    Posts
    2,794
    Thanks
    511
    Thanked 505 Times in 341 Posts
    I agree with tensai. The perfect shape of the brush (from start to tail of the stroke), the manipulated ink color in the second piece, the lasso + gradiant in the third, and the thin light "airbrush" over darks...all obviously digital.

    Brush markers/pens have a softer tip on them, but they aren't a sub for real brush. You can manipulate the water-based type to look like watercolor if you have a wet brush...but you might as well use paint.

    "India" ink is specifically black. Other colors (including white) are just "ink." They behave in the manner of sumi-e...good for washes and relatively bright. Of course they are transparent, so you can't use them over black ink and shouldn't use them too heavily to color non-waterproof lineart.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    1,012
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 181 Times in 158 Posts
    thanks miranda.. I see what your saying.. The reason I thought they might not be digital is some of the black lines.. All of the blacks espiecially the outline in #2 have a very natural feel to them.. I thought they looked like ink.. Is it possible the black was inked and scanned in? I just cant help but think the black strokes arent digital.. maybe im wrong
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  14. #13
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,211
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,684 Times in 5,022 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by biggjoee5790 View Post
    thanks miranda.. I see what your saying.. The reason I thought they might not be digital is some of the black lines.. All of the blacks espiecially the outline in #2 have a very natural feel to them.. I thought they looked like ink.. Is it possible the black was inked and scanned in? I just cant help but think the black strokes arent digital.. maybe im wrong
    You're probably right.

    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Sumi-e paintbrush effect?
    By ideometer in forum PHOTOSHOP
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: December 2nd, 2010, 04:51 AM
  2. sumi ink portrait
    By toshiami in forum ART CRITIQUE CENTER
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: December 7th, 2009, 01:00 AM
  3. sumi-e brushes painterX
    By kelly x in forum PAINTER
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: June 23rd, 2008, 01:01 PM
  4. Spammers from INDIA will equal all of INDIA BANNED
    By Jason Manley in forum Artist Lounge
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: August 9th, 2005, 03:15 AM

Members who have read this thread: 1

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • 424,149 Artists
  • 3,599,276 Artist Posts
  • 32,941 Sketchbooks
  • 54 New Art Jobs
Art Workshop Discount Inside

Developed Actively by vBSocial.com
SpringOfSea's Sketchbook