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  1. #1
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    Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ--A Final Comment

    The dust of reviews has settled on this film and so: the time has come, perhaps, for a more dispassionate, a more considered, a more reflective, little review. Perhaps review is not quite the right word; perhaps what I have written here is just a comment, but it is no less provocative than the most provocative youve read thusfar and I hope you will find here some refreshing and intelligent insight into the way the film was made and perceived.

    This film is not intended to be a masterful historical documentary as, say, Ken Burns' work on the Civil War or one of many others done in the first century of the existence of the cinema. Gibson's work is far from possessing what some might call an intellectual poverty in its pretensions at historical documentary. Shawn Rosenheim says all TV documentaries possess an intellectual poverty. If Rosenheim is right the visual media are simply incapable of producing historical documentary.1 And if Rosenheim is wrong, as I tend to think he is, historical documentary of an event 2000 years ago is not impossible. It is, rather, a recreation. We simply do not know enough about the event Gibson is recreating to claim that what we are seeing is a documentary.

    We all know that Gibson did not take his camera crew to downtown Jerusalem or into the little hamlet of Nazereth in some kind of time-warp to produce an anti-Jewish, anti Roman clip for the evening news. Even if he had and he then produced for us all an evening two hour special, spectacle, called "the crucifixion," there would still be questions about visual manipulation and the program's service in the name of directing popular thought toward a new religious movement. New religious movements have always had trouble getting popular exposure unless they can be associated with conflict and violence, eccentricity and the bizarre, indeed, anything visually stimulating and distracting.

    No one would claim that Gibson's is a neutral recording of objective events. It is a construct operating from a certain point of view. It is a rhetorical argument achieved through the selection and combination of elements that both reflect and project a world, a world view, a cosmology if you like. It is achieved by certain cinematic conventions that try to erase any signs of cinematic artificiality. An ideology is promoted by linking the effect of reality to social values and institutions in such a way that these values seem natural and self-evident. In the case of Mel Gibson's work, a work that I found quite stimulating in its own way, the ideology is simply and strongly: fundamentalist Christianity.

    History has a thousand faces, a thousand forms, and Mel Gibson has given us some very stimulating ones, perhaps a little too visually acute, in his film, The Passion of the Christ. They will serve for some of the millions who watched it to bring them closer to One whom Baha'u'llah, the Baha'i Faith's founder, said "when Christ was crucified the world wept with a great weaping." Bill Graham wept; many stayed home; millions viewed the film as it went into the top ten money spinners in cinema history two weeks ago. Some were appauled; some stimulated. To each his own.
    married for 48 years, a teacher for 32, a student for 18, a writer and editor for 16, and a Baha'i for 56(in 2015).


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  3. #2
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    Gibsons makes anti semantic drunken rant after making a film about a Jewish man been tortured and then nailed to a cross.... some thing does not seem right here...
    SKETCHBOOK

    "There aren't any shortcuts. You've got to dig in – study and draw the world around you. This is the only way to hone your skill and develop a style that is your own". GREG CAPULLO

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    Apologies tomwaits4noman

    Apologies, tomwaits4noman, for taking so long to get back to you, but I only saw your post tonight.-Ron in Tasmania
    married for 48 years, a teacher for 32, a student for 18, a writer and editor for 16, and a Baha'i for 56(in 2015).

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    My problem with Passion of the Christ isn't that Jesus is in it.

    The problem is it is pretty much a man getting tortured for two hours. It's exactly the same as Hostel, only with Jesus substituting for a generic teenager. They don't really even try and put in any of the things Jesus actually says. Maybe like one scene. At the end of the day, isn't that why Jesus is looked at as a great man?

    That's just my opinion, though. If you liked the movie, I have no problem with that.

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  7. #5
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    It's been a while since I've seen that movie. I am never going to watch it again, due to the extreme violence. I certainly do not think this movie is perfect or without flaw, but I do think it serves an important purpose in today's society...

    Simply put, whether you're Christian or not, you've likely heard the story of Jesus' crucifiction. In this day and age of political correctness and lethal injection (and lack of death penalty altogether in many places), we hear (and often accept, if you're Christian) the statement that Jesus suffered greatly and died for our sins, but we don't really understand the gravity and hugeness of that statement. Therefore, a movie that shows even a biased glimpse of the brutality and religious persecution that Jesus experienced for trying to do the right thing is a good and necessary reminder of the great man he was, and the hugeness of his love for and commitment to us.

    P.S.: If it wasn't completely obvious, I am a Christian, and so I talk from a Christian POV that all other may not share, which is fine.
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    Thanks for the Responses Folks

    Thanks for the Responses Folks. Let me add another response and comment before leaving this thread. Some readers at this site and on this thread may find my post below a little long for their liking and, for such readers, I simply suggest they stop reading when they find their eyes glazing over.-Ron Price, Tasmania
    --------------------------------
    After many years of watching many fine programs on Compass, I felt moved to respond to the second in the two-part series on fundamentalism across five religious faiths: "The Fundamentalists: Part 2." Rather than go into the intricacies of interpretation in the faiths presented, interpretations that clearly inhabit all the religions and give rise to various problems of attitude and behaviour, I thought I would focus on the topic alluded to in the last words of this second part of the series; namely, "prophets arising in our midst" who might help us resolve these seemingly impenetrable barriers that this program has explored, problems of fundamentalism.

    Religion has historically been concerned with the ennobling of character and the harmonizing of relationships; religion has served throughout history as the ultimate authority in giving meaning to life. In every age, it has cultivated the good, reproved the wrong and held up, to the gaze of all those willing to see, a vision of potentialities as yet unrealized. From its counsels the rational soul has derived encouragement in overcoming limits imposed by the world and in fulfilling itself. As the name implies, religion has simultaneously been the chief force binding diverse peoples together in ever larger and more complex societies through which the individual capacities thus released can find expression. Of course, fundamentalist views have also led to war and violence in the name of religion. This is only saying the obvious.

    The great advantage of the present age is the perspective that makes it possible for the entire human race to see the potential of various civilizing processes as a single phenomenon, the ever-recurring encounters of our world with the world of God, the world of higher values and beliefs, of finer values and attitudes.

    Inspired by this perspective, the Bahá'í community has been a vigorous promoter of interfaith activities from the time of their inception in 1893 in the West. Apart from cherished associations that these activities create, Bahá'ís see in the struggle of diverse religions to draw closer together a response to the Divine Will for a human race that is entering, indeed, must enter if it is to survive--its collective maturity.

    The members of the Baha'i community will continue to assist in every way it can with this interfaith dialogue. They owe it to their partners in this common effort, however, to state clearly their conviction that interfaith discourse, if it is to contribute meaningfully to healing the ills that afflict a desperate humanity, must now address honestly and without further evasion the implications of the over-arching truth that called the movement into being: that God is one and that, beyond all diversity of cultural expression and human interpretation, religion is likewise one.

    With every day that passes, danger grows that the rising fires of religious prejudice will ignite a worldwide conflagration the consequences of which are unthinkable. Such a danger civil government, unaided, cannot overcome. Nor should we delude ourselves that appeals for mutual tolerance can alone hope to extinguish animosities that claim to possess Divine sanction. The crisis calls on religious leadership for a break with the past as decisive as those that opened the way for society to address equally corrosive prejudices of race, gender and nation. Whatever justification exists for exercising influence in matters of conscience, it lies in serving the well-being of humankind.

    At what may well be the greatest turning point in the history of civilization, the demands of such service could not be more clear. "The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable", Bahá'u'lláh urges, "unless and until its unity is firmly established."

    I shall not go on in this vein. But I would like to emphasize that, indeed, prophets have arisen in our midst. Like Christianity which crept obscurely and half hidden in the second and third centuries A.D., in an Augustan Roman empire, before it attracted a significant number of people and became, slowly over the next two centuries(in the 4th and 5th centuries A.D.), what you might call the soul of western civilization for the next thousand years, the Baha'i Faith is in a similar position. Such is my belief. Such is my belief in two prophets that have arisen in our midst.

    In Israel, in Haifa, in their World Centre in the midst of all this Middle Eastern "problem" two prophets have indeed arisen. They have suffered a similar fate to that of Jesus. But in the same way that Christianity's light came into the world, it took hundreds of years to became a significant force, an influential light. The dark past of Roman civilization was not suddenly erased and a new world of light suddenly born. Vast numbers of people continued to endure the effects of ingrained prejudices of ethnicity, gender, nation, caste and class.

    The historian Edward Gibbon describes Christianity's growth and the Roman empire's decline in his magnificant history--little read today. All the evidence indicates that injustices will long persist in our world as the institutions and standards that humanity is devising only slowly become empowered to construct a new order of relationships and to bring relief to the oppressed. The point I want to emphasize here in conclusion is that a threshold has been crossed from which there is no credible possibility of return to the ways of the past. Fundamental principles have been identified, articulated, accorded broad publicity and are becoming progressively incarnated in institutions capable of imposing them on public behaviour.

    And they are far removed from the fundamentalist ethos. There is no doubt that, however protracted and painful the struggle, the outcome will be to revolutionize relationships among all peoples, at the grassroots level. The implications for today are summed up by one of these prophets, Bahá'u'lláh, in words written over a century ago while in prison and exile. The words have been widely disseminated in the intervening decades:

    "There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you."

    I leave this comment with you and hope this reading has been of value to you.--Ron Price George Town Tasmania
    (retired teacher)
    married for 48 years, a teacher for 32, a student for 18, a writer and editor for 16, and a Baha'i for 56(in 2015).

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    Ah.....Jesus Chainsaw Massacre. I am not a Christian. I am not an anything. That does not mean I'm Atheist or Agnostic. I'm nothing....null and void...not applicable. I saw Jesus Chainsaw Massacre in the theater. I saw it on Good Friday. I had a large soda, a large popcorn and some twizzlers. Finished them all, no problem. The theater was full. I was surprised at how many people brought their young children. I understand that it was very moving for Christians. There were all sorts of things linked to that movie. Churches running bus loads from their parking lots, fliers for "Come Discuss...." to go to churches or coffee houses after the movie. I guess the motive was that parents wanted their young ones to really understand what Jesus went through "for them". Scaring Jesus into them seems a little over the top. As I understand it for most children, church is an endurance race, not a weekly moment of spiritual movement. SO this movie was supposed to jumpstart that love affair. Seems a little twisted to me. Watch a snuff film so that the stuff we make you do on Sunday morning has meaning. I get the idea, but these are the same people that cry havoc against Grand Theft Auto for encouraging violence. SO violence, when used properly and applied to certain groups is ok? I'll admit, most of my motive for going was the violence. That's always what I've loved about Gibson's movies. Innovative combat showing the true grim side of what humanity does to itself. It helps illustrate just how bad things have been in our history. Be it a leg getting chopped off with a Claymore, a guy taking a cannon ball square in the chest, or someone being ripped up with a cat o nine tails and then nailed to a cross.

    Everyone, especially after the drunk driving thing, sites antisemitism. What about having the devil be played by a woman? I didnt hear any uproar from that. Was it because she was more androgynous and there for too subtle for the audience it was marketed for? What about Pontius taking counsel from his wife? Something probably WAY off base given the time period and mentality towards women. And can someone please explain to me why such a big deal is made of him carrying the cross through town? He was a carpenter right? Wouldnt he be used to carrying lumber through busy streets? Granted he had taken a beating by that time, but still.

    I enjoyed the film, but not for reasons that most did. I liked the feelings I went through. "Who is this Sith with the snake, I like him......oh...that's Satan....oops.". I liked the use of the language instead of just doing it in English. And the cat o nine tails bit...when you can see his ribs as the meat rips away... nicely done. And finally, watch all the young children leaving the theater pale as ghosts from what they had just been encouraged by their parents to watch. I've never felt the need to watch it again.

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  11. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hookswords View Post
    Scaring Jesus into them seems a little over the top. As I understand it for most children, church is an endurance race, not a weekly moment of spiritual movement. SO this movie was supposed to jumpstart that love affair. Seems a little twisted to me.
    In my experience, kids generally don't mind going to church as long as there's a specific class for their age group. I completely agree though, taking a young kid to this movie is nuts, they don't need to see that kind of thing. A young Christian teenager or middle schooler or so, should definitely see it. At that point they're going to have heard the phrase "Jesus died for your sins" so many times that it will have lost all meaning. As a Christian myself, I can say that it was a pretty powerful reminder for me. If I weren't a Christian though, I don't think there's any reason I would bother to see this.

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    even when I was a christian I didn't really consider it "moving". It's not a bad flick, it's just well, there's something terribly phony about someone who has a life changing experience from a movie. Not to say that movies can't be good mediums for conveying meaningful messages it's just that it seems a little ignorant when people consider a movie to be "all the proof you need" to fortify their beliefs. As I said I'm not trying to belittle christians or christianity in the least but I can't help but roll my eyes when seeing people come out of that movie in tears
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    After More Than 2 Years

    After More Than 2 Years....since I was last at this thread, I think I'll just let it slip to the edge of the universe, the cyber universe and fall into oblivion.-Ron in Tasmania
    married for 48 years, a teacher for 32, a student for 18, a writer and editor for 16, and a Baha'i for 56(in 2015).

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    Well Necro'ing this thread kinda defeats the purpose of letting it slip into the dark pits of the internet doesn't it?


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    It has been nearly 3 years since I was last on this thread and, since Beeston seems to like the idea of the thread continuing, I'll add a quasi-theological-philosophical post below.-Ron Price, Tasmania
    -------------------------------------
    The following three prose-poems were each written after seeing one of the three films in The Matrix Trilogy. This sci-fi series is concerned with the nature of reality, a central concern in my studies of philosophy and religion, sociology and psychology, peoples' value-and-belief systems and my own.-Ron Price, Pioneering Over Five Epochs, 4 March 2014.


    MATRIX

    Part 1:

    The film The Matrix was released in Australia on 8 April 1999, the very week I taught my last classes as a full-time professional teacher. I had been in classrooms by then for half a century, thirty-two years as a teacher and another 18 as a student. I won't give you all the details of the plot, the characters, the money the film grossed, or the awards in won. You can Google all that information at Wikipedia among other sites. Some of the theme, though, is as follows: a fundamental discovery is made about the world: "that it doesn't exist".

    The world, as people experience it, is actually a form of Virtual Reality. It is designed to lull people into lives of blind obedience to the system. People obediently go to their jobs every day without knowing that Matrix is the wool that has been pulled over their eyes. The reality of life is that people are slaves. The rebels in the film want to crack the framework that holds this Matrix in place thus freeing humankind. Some believe a messianic One will lead a social uprising; this messianic One will possess both mind power and physical strength. -Ron Price, Pioneering Over Four Epochs, 4 November 2006 with thanks to Roger Ebert, Chicago Sun-Times, 31 March 1999.

    Part 2:

    The world has been in a great sleep
    from which it is only slowly waking
    thanks to that messianic One, and the
    uprising has begun silently......and so
    unobtrusively, for the revolution is a
    global one, and out of man's control.

    It is also spiritual--having begun
    within the Shaykhi school of the
    Ithna-Ashariyyih sect of a Shi'ah
    Islam. But don't tell anyone--it's
    the best kept secret-non-secret in
    the world...and it is slowly rising
    from the obscurity in which it has
    been shrouded for some 170 years.1

    1 This evening, 12/2/'14, I watched part of this same film with my wife, some 15 years after it was released. I had watched it before, but could not remember any of the details all those years ago.

    Ron Price
    4/11/'06 to 12/2/'14.
    __________________________________________________ ____
    MATRIX and The Matrix Reloaded

    Part 1:


    Frances Flannery-Dailey and Rachel Wagner's groundbreaking article: "Wake Up! Gnosticism and Buddhism in The Matrix," was published two years after the release of the film. The article convincingly argues that The Matrix draws on several religious traditions in its presentation of an unreal material world, a world which requires of the masses a mental liberation in order for them to participate in life’s true reality.

    This article has provided the impetus for much fruitful discussion of The Matrix both in the scholarly and popular press(1). The Matrix was released in Australia the very week I retired after my thirty+ year career as a teacher. It was in the first days of April 1999; 1999 was also some forty years after I had joined the Bahá'í Faith in Canada at the age of 15 in Ontario's Golden Horseshoe.

    Part 2:

    The film's sequel, The Matrix Reloaded(2003), came out as I was ensconced in a town by the sea, the oldest town, George Town, on the oldest continent—Australia. I had taken a sea-change as they call it in the Antipodes. I had also taken an early retirement at the age of 55 and was on a disability pension by 2003. I was writing, editing and publishing full-time by the time the 3rd millennium turned its corner in 2001, and this sequel to The Matrix was released into cinemas around the world.

    The Matrix Reloaded critiques what many saw as the gnostic religious position that Flannery-Dailey and Wagner use to philosophically underpin their film The Matrix. The Wachowski brothers, the writers and directors of both films, reveal the limitations and inconsistencies of the gnostic approach to reality through their portrayal of a type of "realized eschatology" similar to that found in some outposts of the early Christian church.

    Eschatology is a word for the happenings when the world ends, the end times, when Jesus returns, inter alia. Gnosticism typically: (a) rejects the material world as malevolent and illusory, and (b) advocates a program of special intellectual training culminating in the possession of secret knowledge in order to escape both this world and its illusory nature. Gnosticism, of course, is quite a complex subject, far too complex to deal with in a prose-poem like this one.

    Part 2.1:

    In The Matrix Reloaded Zion, the underground outpost of the free humans, is, quite literally, thy kingdom come, the kingdom of God on Earth, that realized eschatology at the time of the end. Within it the enlightened, and those who are saved, enjoy a foretaste of what all civilization will someday be after the machines are defeated in a final and apocalyptic showdown at some unknown and future time. This model of the future not only accepts, but also embraces and celebrates, the material world as the embodiment of spiritual reality.

    Perhaps, for some viewers of this film, this material world is but the metaphorical nature of a deeper spiritual reality. The illusions of The Matrix are to be found in the non-material world of: ideas, computer programs, data and information. It is and was this world that gnosticism has always claimed as the dimension of true reality.

    Part 2.2:

    In short, this cinematic sequel turns the first aspect of the gnostic system on its head. Flannery-Dailey and Wagner note that when we ask the question, 'To what do we awaken?', the film appears to diverge sharply from both Gnosticism and Buddhism, two major religious paths. 'Waking up' in the film means a leaving behind the matrix and awakening to a dismal cyber-world which is our real material world.

    The Matrix leaves open the possibility that the "desert of the real," the one that Neo is shown on a computer screen, is not in fact real at all. While that reading may have been possible with the evidence of the first film alone, The Matrix Reloaded significantly alters the possibilities for a gnostic interpretation. A realm of true reality: a material, embodied, and historical realm of human existence--is the setting for much of the second film's action. -Ron Price with thanks to (1) Julien R. Fielding, "Reassessing The Matrix Reloaded," Journal of Religion and Film, Vol.7, No.2, October 2003.

    Part 3:

    Neo is the Messiah of The Matrix films;
    Zion awaits the coming of a Paul & the
    rebel that accompanies an awakening-an
    exodus, or a liberation which cannot be
    productively translated into a MO, modus
    vivendi or a modus operandi. It was Paul
    who created a Christianity with a set of
    stable religious institutions by identifying
    a third way that was between an asceticism
    and libertinism, a praxis of realism liberally
    salted with regeneration, and undergirded by
    Christian hope. And then, of course, there was
    Peter, and that was where the Petrine doctrine
    and Catholicism begins for that institutional
    church over 2000 years ago at another dawn.

    This third way required the proponents of a
    realized eschatology to see some very real
    conditions of ongoing life in this our world
    including relationships of dependence and
    practicality. Salvation and enlightenment is
    not the end of the story, the end of the plot.

    It continues at the level of the great cosmic
    battle of God, of light and darkness. We may
    live authentically and mindfully or forget who
    we are and fall into new errors and illusions.

    Both alternatives are possible for saved persons.
    Paul wanted to show that the category of Christian
    contains the possibility of grievous error, evil and
    deceit. Blinded by gnostic underpinnings they see
    that they have attained some transcendence over
    dangerous illusion. A Paul must emerge to teach
    them a sustainable and honest perspective on their
    lives, reconciling their belief system with many a
    set of unstated assumptions in the practice of their
    daily existence &, if not Paul, perhaps, The Return.(1)

    (1) For a stimulating commentary on this film, a commentary from which I have drawn in the above prose-poem, see: Donna Bowman, “The Gnostic Illusion: Problematic Realized Eschatology in The Matrix Reloaded,” The Journal of Religion and Popular Culture, Volume 4, Summer 2003. The theology and the inner interpretations of the film are complex. Readers with the interest are advised to follow-up this prose-poem with their own reading if they want to delve into the questions by means of the many interpretations of this film, and what has become a series of films.

    Ron Price
    3/4/'10 to 3/3/'14.
    ________________________________________
    THE MATRIX REVOLUTIONS
    Part 1:

    By the time I came to watch some of The Matrix Revolutions in 2014, the Matrix phenomenon had already come to an end for the last five years in the print and electronic media. This film was a 2003 American science-fiction action piece, and was the third installment of The Matrix Trilogy. The film was released six months following The Matrix Reloaded. The film was written and directed by those same Wachowski Brothers, and was released simultaneously in 60 countries on 5 November 2003. By 2003 I had been retired from all FT and PT paid employment, and had taken an early retirement.

    While this film was the final in the series, the Matrix storyline continued in The Matrix Online for the millions of Matrix enthusiasts with video-game proclivities. The Matrix Online was a multi-player online game developed by Monolith Productions. It was the official continuation of the storyline of The Matrix Trilogy. The game ran continuously until it was shut down on 31 July 2009 by Sony Online Entertainment.

    I had lost contact with all that was associated with the Matrix until this evening, as I chanced-upon a TV rerun during my visit with my son, his wife and my grand-daughter who is now 3 and who has made me a fully-fledged grandfather after some 20 years of my step-grand-fatherhood. I still had, though, an interest in sci-fi and often wrote little pieces of analysis at various sites on the world-wifde-web.

    Part 1.1:

    Sony Online Entertainment unexpectedly decided to discontinue service to the The Matrix Online game due to low subscription numbers by June 2009. You can read all about "the final event" and "the game rankings" in relation to this online game at several sites in cyberspace, if you so desire. I leave that to readers here with the interest in a film phenomenon that captured the interests of millions in the last dozen years or so.
    By 2009, when all that was Matrix had ended, I was on two old-age pensions and had reinvented myself as a writer and author, poet and publisher, online blogger and journalist, editor and researcher, reader and scholar.

    Part 2:

    The game itself became the official continuation of the universe, story and characters established in The Matrix series of fictional works. Those works included the Movie Trilogy, The Animatrix short films, the Enter The Matrix video game and a series of officially written and produced Matrix comic books. This continuation was written by the award winning comic book writer Paul Chadwick, and later collaboratively with MxO lead game designer, Ben "Rarebit" Chamberlain.

    Again, I won't give you the details of the plot and the story-line, the characters and the cast, the production and sound systems, the budget and box-office revenues, the film's reception and the many references to the film in the media. You can read all about these aspects of this final film in the series, if you have the interest.

    Part 3:

    I'll put all this to bed
    now as I head into my
    70s in the next 5 months
    as old-age creeps-up on
    me in this 21st century.

    There are so many realities:
    virtual, secondary, primary,
    metaphorical, personal, and
    to each their own as we go on
    through this climacteric of our
    history, and as we head into our
    own futures toward death, into a
    hole from which no man returns,
    to the end of our days, & in these
    time-of-the-end days, eschatology
    as they say in theological circles.(1)

    (1) Eschatology is that part of theology concerned with what are believed to be the final events of history, or the ultimate destiny of humanity. This concept is commonly referred to as the "end of the world" or "end time".

    Ron Price
    4/3/'14.
    -----------------------------
    end of document
    married for 48 years, a teacher for 32, a student for 18, a writer and editor for 16, and a Baha'i for 56(in 2015).

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    dude, bumping your own threads from almost 5 years ago is kind of bs. Just start a new thread. I found "Passion" to be an interesting cultural phenomenon when it came out, but that film is dead and the brief era of post 9-11patriotic fundamentalist christian phoneyness it was a part of along with it. I'll admit, I got sucked up in all that at the time, (and by that admission I'm not saying I've quit the faith, just look at it a bit differently) but you've got to see that the same film would get a totally different reception now and we aught to just let it remain that distant remnant of that period of weirdness. Let this one die.

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    Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice did it better.

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