John Singer Sargent Sucked....Were People on Drugs?
Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 79
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,350
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 118 Times in 69 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    John Singer Sargent Sucked....Were People on Drugs?

    John Singer Sargent

    When I was a student at the Minneapolis School of Art, 1952 - 56, the name of Sargent was practically a dirty word. I never once heard Sargent referred to in any way other than condemnatory. Sargent, in the views of the art school faculty (which I believe was representative of the art world generally at that time, was an example of the worst that art can aspire to. This bewildered me, because I admired Sargent so very much. His work was endlessly fascinating to me. Well, that was then. Today (2005) Sargent is enjoying a tremendous worldwide resurgence of interest. The great museums are competing with one another to feature his work in major exhibitions. The Metropolitan Museum is a good example. Their recent Velasquez/Manet exhibit featured the work of the great Spanish master hung alongside works by artists who had been influenced by him. The show included many works by Sargent. Most of the other artists, notably Manet himself, suffered terribly by the comparison. Next to Velasquez, Manet looked downright amateur. Sargent was the star of the exhibition, with his works appearing vibrant and strong when hung in juxtaposition with his great Spanish mentor. The reputation of Sargent rose even higher. Prices for Sargent works at auction are rising astronomically. He was one of my super-heroes in the fifties, and he remains so today.
    http://www.worldofportraitpainting.c...ont/heroes.htm

    I had an art instructor....an Art Center Graduate by the way....tell me that this type of painting is provincial, and that instructor graduated Art Center in 1994.

    What the hell is going on with people?

    Maybe people that suck at drawing just get jealous of people that don't.

    Where's Ilaekae when you need'm?
    He was around when this BS was go'n down.

    Admittedly, John Howard Sanden is probably then most conservative artist ever, but come on.

    My New Neglected Sketchbook
    You Ain't no Nina!.....

    "Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John Fitzgerald Kennedy
    "My mind is made up. Don't confuse it with facts." -- Terence McKenna
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hamburg, Germany
    Posts
    1,119
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Had Sargent been born 50 years earlier, he would have had his name printed in any artbooks nowadays. Unfortunatelly while he was doing his wonderfull picturecque stuff, people like Picasso had broken with the artworld conventions. There was just too much "Exciting " stuff going on compared to which Sargent looked oldscool like f. So he suited swell as a punching bag for all those "art is dead, stop painting, make art" sort of people.
    At least that's my version of an explanation.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Sacramento and Los Angeles
    Posts
    988
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 164 Times in 61 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    artists == herd mentality

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    1,318
    Thanks
    1,081
    Thanked 1,440 Times in 427 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I agree with aesir - some of the most talented artists of our generation are working in games or film (and are right here on this forum) and aren't getting the mainstream recognition. Not like the the .. things they feature in magazines, media and galleries. One can only hope time will reveal the frauds for what they are and the innovators for what they are. (And come on, what IS "postmodern" anyway?!)

    If you can appreciate Sargent and get fired up about this, then that is a step in the right direction.


    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. #5
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,666 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Sargent was the ultimate establishment artist. He became extraordinarily wealthy by painting the obscenely wealthy. In his time, and especially immediately after, it was impossible to separate his work from its social milieu. You can't understand the art of the 20th century without understanding the history of the 20th century, and the pivotal event of the past 100 years is WWI. The effect of the war was cataclysmic, and negatively effected the reputation of the 19th century culture that was seen as responsible for it for generations.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    1,215
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked 165 Times in 66 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Plus its always in vogue to hate the art of the generation that directly proceeds you.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,350
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 118 Times in 69 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Plus its always in vogue to hate the art of the generation that directly proceeds you.
    I always thought that was a 20th century phenomenon....even up to the impressionist era, at least there seems to be some continuity. Then the 20th Century hits and everybody becomes bipolar.

    You're either traditional or abstract.

    My New Neglected Sketchbook
    You Ain't no Nina!.....

    "Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John Fitzgerald Kennedy
    "My mind is made up. Don't confuse it with facts." -- Terence McKenna
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. #8
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,666 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSeRider View Post
    I always thought that was a 20th century phenomenon....even up to the impressionist era, at least there seems to be some continuity. Then the 20th Century hits and everybody becomes bipolar.
    Again, WWI + technology.
    Read.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Edmonton※Alberta※CANADA
    Posts
    1,398
    Thanks
    35
    Thanked 174 Times in 55 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I thought Rembrandt was overrated too until I actually saw a painting of his in person.

    "Holy Shit."

    My exact words.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. #10
    TASmith's Avatar
    TASmith is offline Registered User Level 16 Gladiator: Spartacus' Retiarii
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    4,170
    Thanks
    5,094
    Thanked 2,049 Times in 1,108 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    So long as we're on the topic, one should mention Sargent was one of the most flattering portrait painters in history - worthy of study on this alone, although his colors and high gloss glazing are also great.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Californication land
    Posts
    1,838
    Thanks
    262
    Thanked 345 Times in 141 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    did anyone else notice that Oppenheims' wife has encredibly large arms and really small breasts..?? ...thats hot

    J.L. ALFARO


    "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind."
    -Dr. Seuss


    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Orlando Florida
    Posts
    2,842
    Thanks
    705
    Thanked 616 Times in 312 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    people would always hate on Norman rockwell at my school. Saying his work was cliche and comodified. I always admired his skill as a draftsman and his abillity to capture what was as of that era the idealised common american scene.

    Last edited by Robert.B; April 7th, 2008 at 03:24 PM.
    Site
    BLOG

    SketchBook



    "it's much easier to scale up from simplicity than to scale back from complexity"
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #13
    Wooly ESS's Avatar
    Wooly ESS is offline personal reinventor and observer of life Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Southern Alberta
    Posts
    595
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 405 Times in 163 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I did not recognize the name of John Singer Sargent until I looked at his work on the referenced website. When I saw the portrait of Lord Ribblesdale I realized that I had seen it before. I believe an article on Sargent appeared in Time magazine some years ago, and this portrait was featured in the article. I forget most of the article's content, but one thing that stuck in my mind was the effective way Sargent dealt with drapery. Lord R's trousers as they bunch around the knees is an example. While I had forgotten the artist's name, his work set the standard for my own treatment of drapery. So, thank you, NoSeRider, for bringing this artist's name back to our attention.

    There is now, and always has been, a tendency to judge artists/musicians/actors/etc. according to the politics they hold, who they associate with, or the way in which they choose to earn their living. This is unfortunate, as I believe they should be primarily judged on how well they communicate what they have seen and felt in the world. On viewing the portrait of Lord Ribblesdale, I would say that Sargent succeeded very well in communicating what he saw in his subject.

    The truth will set you free,
    but first it's gonna piss you off!

    Website
    www.ceandersonart.com

    Facebook
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Ed-...47726545290769
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    with Dagon
    Posts
    1,016
    Thanks
    167
    Thanked 472 Times in 187 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I had a similair experience with Alma-Tadema and Waterhouse upon discovering them while I was in school. I got these books out from the art library, poured over them, then hauled them to class expecting great praise from my teacher for uncovering some great forgotten artist. Upon bringing the books up in class I recieved a heavy sigh from the teacher, who then went on to explain how the artwork was racist, classist, AND objectified women. Not only wasn't it good art, infact it was the worst kind of art in her mind. Obviously that kinda took the wind out of my sails, although I wasn't going to take her word on something that I knew I liked. In a program with a faculty that all pretty much did the same kind of art, anything else was not particularly welcome, and was judged based on how it looked from their particular tower.

    Ia Ia Cthulhu Fthagn

    The Sketchbook Lives AGAIN!

    Darkergreen, My environment, and concept art portfolio

    "Its all Fish-Men in the end anyway" -Sara, my wife

    "Whenever one finds oneself inclined to bitterness, it is a sign of emotional failure."
    Bertrand Russell
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wiesbaden, Germany
    Posts
    2,169
    Thanks
    613
    Thanked 551 Times in 183 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Waiting for Hyskoa to join this. I had a funny conversation with him about what should be done to change the art world.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Stockholm
    Posts
    1,734
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 332 Times in 177 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  18. #17
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Gdansk, Poland
    Posts
    4,834
    Thanks
    887
    Thanked 1,568 Times in 754 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    What should be changed?
    I think everybody should only paint realistic and naked nymphs with flowers in their hair, taking bath in beautiful lake (or Ancient Greek bath house). Then it would be perfect.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In my own thoughts.
    Posts
    1,340
    Thanks
    433
    Thanked 551 Times in 248 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabo View Post
    Waiting for Hyskoa to join this. I had a funny conversation with him about what should be done to change the art world.
    Two words: Selective wipeout.

    I'll make the selection if others can't or wish to debate this endlessly and then we can put this entire modern art problem behind us and start the healing process.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  20. #19
    Vhan Juju's Avatar
    Vhan Juju is offline Just another developing teenage artist. Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    588
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I really don't get it, what is so bad about this guy?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  21. #20
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Gdansk, Poland
    Posts
    4,834
    Thanks
    887
    Thanked 1,568 Times in 754 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Two words: Selective wipeout.
    Maybe like this.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_realism

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  22. #21
    Vhan Juju's Avatar
    Vhan Juju is offline Just another developing teenage artist. Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    588
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    So...your saying that this guys paintings are a form of "political doctrine " ? eh?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Bellevue, WA
    Posts
    1,004
    Thanks
    506
    Thanked 678 Times in 186 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Back in the 1970's, you could buy a William Bouguereau painting for $7000.

    Sad, I know.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    ON, Canada
    Posts
    810
    Thanks
    159
    Thanked 127 Times in 76 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    John Singer Sargent Sucked....Were People on Drugs?
    Back in the 1970's, you could buy a William Bouguereau painting for $7000.
    lol, everybody is on drugs in the 70's.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Breda, the Netherlands/Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    168
    Thanks
    448
    Thanked 24 Times in 15 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabo View Post
    Waiting for Hyskoa to join this. I had a funny conversation with him about what should be done to change the art world.
    haha! art burning convention ftw!

    sketchbook: http://c ghub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6480
    Deviantart
    Last.fm

    "We began as wanderers, and we are wanderers still. We have lingered long enough on the shores of the cosmic ocean. We are ready at last to set sail for the stars." -Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,035
    Thanks
    895
    Thanked 850 Times in 290 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert.B View Post
    people would always hate on Norman rockwell at my school. Saying his work was cliche and comodified. I always admired his skill as a draftsman and his abillity to capture what was as of that era the idealised common american scene.
    Yeah, that's common too, but a lot of people don't realize he also did a lot of really poignant civil rights illustrations that just aren't as widely published. And the man had some flat-out fucking CHOPS dude.

    Brandywine school, Sargent, Gerome, Velasquez, Caravaggio, Ingres, Repin, Fechin - jesus, there's tons of Russian and Chinese masters... I only vaguely knew these guys' work before going to the Atelier and I'm crazy about them now. But yeah there are a lot of amaaaaaazing artists out there that are largely forgotten and hated-on by post-moderns... I even grew up in a household filled with modern and post-modern art books, my mom's favorite artist is Miro - whose work I DESPISE and always did.

    Read up on Caravaggio - that guy's life would make an *awesome* drama/thriller. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravaggio

    All hail Sargent

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  27. #26
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    900
    Thanks
    155
    Thanked 205 Times in 111 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Did I miss something? How did we get from JS Sargent to Socialist realism?

    "Change is a virtue my friend... if you want to escape, all you have to do is make up your mind."
    John Cale / Bob Neuwirth


    Here be SKETCHIES...

    www.ccthrom.com
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  28. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    The Abyss, Manchester UK
    Posts
    2,921
    Thanks
    1,202
    Thanked 2,265 Times in 736 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by nonie View Post
    Read up on Caravaggio - that guy's life would make an *awesome* drama/thriller. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravaggio
    It has done!

    CARAVAGGIO

    And the BBC did a drama doc of his life a couple of years a go.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Aly Fell For This Useful Post:


  30. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    1,188
    Thanks
    785
    Thanked 666 Times in 165 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyskoa View Post
    Two words: Selective wipeout.

    I'll make the selection if others can't or wish to debate this endlessly and then we can put this entire modern art problem behind us and start the healing process.
    or this

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  31. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to m@. For This Useful Post:


  32. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    ON, Canada
    Posts
    810
    Thanks
    159
    Thanked 127 Times in 76 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by m@. View Post
    Sieg Heil !!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  33. #30
    Wooly ESS's Avatar
    Wooly ESS is offline personal reinventor and observer of life Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Southern Alberta
    Posts
    595
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 405 Times in 163 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    It's so hard to follow the plot without a program

    The truth will set you free,
    but first it's gonna piss you off!

    Website
    www.ceandersonart.com

    Facebook
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Ed-...47726545290769
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •