Halp! To Vista or not to Vista...
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Thread: Halp! To Vista or not to Vista...

  1. #1
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    Halp! To Vista or not to Vista...

    Im building my first monster pc, got it going now I need an os for it.
    I looked around and it seems 64 bit is the ideal thing for me and work.
    Heres the thing tho, I found a copy of Windows XP pro x64 ony a few bucks less than the Vista ultimate x64...sooo

    why should I or shouldn't I go with Vista 64?
    I have read the horror stories, and the praise stories
    I have read the compatibility issues, and they pretty much even out between- Vista whatever version and XP 64 bit edition.

    This pc will be used mainly for work, (PS, Painter, Illo) Im still on CS2, and I dont think I can afford the upgrade right now...but dont know if that matters at all...does it?

    c'mon guys gimme a little help making up my mind here..

    getting it this weekend, so...thanks.

    -Joe


    Last edited by JL.Alfaro; February 29th, 2008 at 01:27 AM.
    J.L. ALFARO


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    I went back to XP after using Vista for a few weeks. If you install the first service pack or two, there's just nothing wrong with XP, plus (in my case) it was far less power hungry than Vista. I found Vista to drain particularly hard on my 1 GB of RAM.

    The only reason to get Vista that I can think of right now is if you're planning on 4 gigs of RAM or more, which XP doesn't support (it might with the new service pack - dunno)

    Brendan Noeth

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    if you are using a Wacom tablet - you should look at their site's '"drivers" section. as long as i remember there are NO drivers for 64bit versions of windows for the moment.

    also - if u have less than 4 gigs of ram - no reason to move to 64bit system
    aaaand Photoshop will use 3gb of ram even if u have more than 3...that's a photoshop issue.

    it would be good to hear ya configuration to give more detailed answer

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    I'm still using Windows 2000.

    I don't see why you need to do anything? As long as it works, don't fix it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kveye View Post
    if you are using a Wacom tablet - you should look at their site's '"drivers" section. as long as i remember there are NO drivers for 64bit versions of windows for the moment.

    also - if u have less than 4 gigs of ram - no reason to move to 64bit system
    aaaand Photoshop will use 3gb of ram even if u have more than 3...that's a photoshop issue.

    it would be good to hear ya configuration to give more detailed answer
    My machine at work is 64 bit XP and I don't have any problems with the Wacom tablet drivers.

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    Go with XP. Less problems, a more familiar userface and not that new shit they have, and it works pretty damn good for what it does. And its not a power .

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    thanks for the replies guys

    first off, Im going to be using 8 gigs of RAM, so the power hungry Vista can run smoothly. Mainly cause I have been doing large graphics, with 600+ resolution, for some clients. and when I do stuff like that, my pc will either crash, freeze, lag tremendously, or loose all virtual memory...soo, Im sick and tired of it.


    kveye- thanks for the info, Im checking into that tablet driver issue. Im on a Cintiq and a Intuos 2 , so yeah that would matter alot.
    As far as the config goes, I got an evga mobo 650i Ultra (which is the same as the 680i without the SLI)I dont do gaming so, I dont care for SLI ready or not. Got the core2 duo Quad Q66 (beautiful thing) Im not sure if I want to overclock it as it seems to be pretty fast already.( on a test it booted up windows XP sp2 in about 3 seconds, I kid you not) 8G DDR2 6400 -800mhz pc2, 256m Nvidia card, 2 hd -40g & 400g.

    noserider- the problem was that it was not working for me
    I very highly doubt that win 2k would be for me


    if anyone finds out anything about the wacom drivers, please post link/info here

    thanks again

    J.L. ALFARO


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    wassermelon- thanks man, thats some great news!

    edit: just found this:
    http://www.wacom-europe.com/uk/downl...ver/driver.asp

    Last edited by JL.Alfaro; February 29th, 2008 at 11:52 AM.
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    Keep the horsepower for apps not for the OS, get XP.

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    My laptop has Vista installed on it and I personally hate it. It's slow due to too much fluffy crap running in the background (most of which I turned off but now I have to deal with popups telling me XYZ program has been disabled "Do you want to re-enable it?" crap). Having the desktop displayed in Vista mode with all the transparent window boxes looks cool, but again, it causes a great deal of lag with the system, so I disabled that and went with classic display mode (making it look like XP's essentially). It did actually speed things a tad.

    Honestly, this laptop shouldn't be lagging or sluggish given it's specs. And if I could install XP I would, but I don't have a 64 version of it and can't drop the cash to get a copy. That and I don't know if the drivers that came with my laptop have all I need in order to format and do a clean install.

    Of Wacom drivers, as far as I know, just go to this link: http://www.wacom.com/productsupport/select.cfm and download the driver you need there. My Intuos 2 works just fine with no hiccups.

    To be honest, needing 8gigs of RAM just so that an OS runs smooth is a bunch of horse shit. It shouldn't require that kind of memory to run without kinks. BUT, on the flip side, if you deck out your PC with top notch equipment, you don't have to worry about upgrading for a long while. Just make sure you have a good cooling system in that machine. :p Incidentally, I just finished reading an article that stated Vista Ultimate can support 128gigs of Ram or more. O.o Even though no motherboard can just yet, but, when technology gets there, Vista will have no problem supporting it.

    On a side note, I wish I had the extra dough to get my laptop upgraded in memory. It's only got 2 gigs in it and even though Vista Home can support 8 gigs, my mother board cannot (up to 4). Stupid motherboard limitation...

    Last edited by Meli Hitchcock; February 29th, 2008 at 12:20 PM.
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    thanx meli H- well the reason Im putting so much memory on it is because of large files and such, not to make the os work better...trying to get my apps to run smoothly..thats all. I did invest a bit of money on this thing (im calling it Frankenputer) and hoping I dont have to upgrade til a few years later if at all.

    I have read in some forums during my research, that there are individuals who have clean installed xp on a vista system. I cant get into details about it since I havent been there myself. but if you do a little research you will find the steps on "how to" out there. bleieve me, theres enough vista haters out there to come up with a solution.
    Tigerdirect.com has an OEM copy of x64 for around 140 bucks, which in my book is quite affordable (comparing the actual price of 400+ buckeroos).
    I say if you arent happy with it, change it man-stir shit up

    on another note, I know there is a mobo capable of supporting 16G of RAM out there, I came accross it once. Gaming and server capabilities if I recall correctly...but it was crazy expen$ivo man. I'll stick to my 8 gigs, I mean how much memory does PS need to process 72" images...right...right?

    PS: my father in law just got a vista PC with 1G memory, he liked the whole new vista thing so he decided to upgrade. He went from home premium to Ultimate....no worky so good now...had to upgrade his memory, cause the system would just craawwwl. Now it just runs slow..with 2G.
    I think Im going with XP

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    I'm running vista on a similar rig to frankenputer (but only 4gb or RAM) - runs perfectly. You'll need 64bit to use that RAM (vista or xp).

    Wacom drivers are not a problem, but if you use a scanner you'll probably find that no 64bit drivers exist (not a vista thing, just a 64bit thing) - to get around this I use VueScan which works with nearly all scanners.

    Vista is slower than xp - but me likey the search and security. And while when xp crashes it often requires a reboot, Vista has never had a crash that requires rebooting for me (only programs crashes like ie and acdc). Though that Mac TVC where they have the two guys saying "Cancel or Allow" - that's very real and very annoying - takes 3 seperate dialogue boxes just to rename a file sometimes.

    Also, I haven't looked into it for a while, but when I first got the computer there was no antivirus for 64bit Vista, except for the free one called avast! which seems to work fine.

    Oh, and regarding photoshop. CS didn't play well with vista, very slow and buggy for me, but now that I'm using CS3 it works like it should - not sure about CS2 though.

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    I had Vista on my new machine briefly... it looked nice, and was kind of fun, but it ate my resources too badly for the computer to handle it, so my compy got a formatting and XP went back onto it. my computer runs as smooth as a baby's bottom!

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    If you're working mainly for PS, Illo, and Painter then you need the following:

    1. Fast processor
    2. 2-3 GB of RAM
    3. Large amounts of fast storage.

    I've never heard of a program that utilizes 8GB of memory, unless it's a server or a renderfarm. Since you're working mainly with PS and other 2d applications, I think 8GB is overkill. Yeah, Vista may support it, but the program won't, and you'll have to deal with the BS around getting 64bit support for ALL your devices, not just the Wacom...64bit isn't necessarily faster, and if it runs any 32bit applications (a large portion of the market), it's actually slower.

    My recommendation would be to invest that money for RAM into a fast Quad-core processor with a large cache, a decent (at least) mid-range video card, and several FAST hard drives (Raptor drives come to mind) which you can use as scratch disks for PS, or any other application that uses the harddrive. Maybe even get some slightly slower, but still very fast SATAII 7200 drives, and setup a RAID array in which your data is protected, but it also reads/writes faster. I think it's Raid 5 but I could be wrong.

    RAM? I'm running with 2GB right now, and it's fine under XP. 45 layers no problem. 3 GB should do you just fine, and if you want fast RAM, go for it, but there's not that big of a performance difference. In most cases with 2d programs quantity is more important than speed of the RAM.

    Vista is still bloated, and IMO is the newest Windows ME No.2.

    Linux, XP theme, and MacOS have done that same purty GUI stuff for years and they're not lagging to death. They also startup quicker than Vista.

    I'm out of words.

    EDIT: Ok so I read more Maybe 64bit XP would work for you so you would have the 8GB support, I just had a hard time with driver support. Look before you leap is all I'm saying.

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    Linux, w00t!!!!

    hehe, yea anyways, I've never really been interested in Vista even before it was released. Haven't used XP in over a year as I've been having fun with Ubuntu Linux. If I ever do use commercial software, I'll go with a Mac as they look sexay!

    I won't worry about that until I'm keen on drawing and music. I'd highly recommend that you try Linux if it interests you - and you could run Photoshop and such through Wine, which is a compatibility layer and not an emulator (hence the recursive acronym "Wine Is Not an Emulator"). Otherwise, stick with XP

    lol after using the emoticons like =), XD, =P, and such, I laugh everytime I see XP

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    thanks again guys, I think I made up my mind and Im sticking with xp (krazy if you think XP is funny go see your D drive)

    for clarification purposes: I already have the pc built- I just need the OS.

    Puck- so you are running 64bit Vista now?

    Earendil- thanks for the info man, I appreciate that. Im going to stay with my current pc until I get all the kinks worked out from frankenputer. That way I dont mess anything up, or get frustrated too much. I might even link the two pc's together somehow...I know its possible, just need a geek friend to help me out with it..

    Krazy -Man I thought about running Ubuntu on it, It would be ideal for me...but im just not nerdy enough to pull it off..I read the instructions on getting my programs to work on it and its pretty complicated for me...too bad cause I really wanted to give it a try

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    By the way, I didn't mention it earlier, but my home machine is 32 bit Vista. I havn't had any of the problems that other people have said they have.

    Saying its Windows ME is the height of ridiculousness really and blowing any problems with it completely out of proportion. But people love to hate on MDollarsign.

    What people don't remember is how XP (or OS10) was at launch as well. Vista is already a good base and will mature in the same fashion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JL.Alfaro View Post
    Puck- so you are running 64bit Vista now?
    yep, right now. Got photoshop cs3, 3dsmax 2008 and Zbrush 3 open and alt tabbing between the three with no slowdowns. Very happy with the system as my old comp I literally had to close 3dsmax and open photoshop and vise versa just to work on a high res texture (yeah, photoshop can only use 3gb, but RAM is your friend for multitasking).

    All the compatibility problems I've had stem from the 64bit part, not from Vista so far.

    I haven't done a comparison myself, but all the benchmarks seem to show that XP is faster than vista by a reasonable margin - but I went vista because I was swept up in the 'upgrade' feature bloat and wanted to use DX10 and play Halo2 (MS are cheeky bastards).

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    Talking

    I am still using windows 2000!! My PC runs much faster than my friends vista $2000 PC. I am telling you, much faster!!! Vista is a cr@p!

    The only reason that I am still using windows is because I have to use PS CS2 and Wacom tablet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JL.Alfaro View Post
    Krazy -Man I thought about running Ubuntu on it, It would be ideal for me...but im just not nerdy enough to pull it off..I read the instructions on getting my programs to work on it and its pretty complicated for me...too bad cause I really wanted to give it a try
    well I really don't think you have to be technically savvy to do stuff like running stuff in Wine (and a new app called Wine-Doors which is very nice), especially if the linux-distro is Ubuntu. Another thing, recent news says that more developers are working on Wine so it will support CS2. As for, installing and updating linux software, it's insanely easy through the synaptic package manager, and/or ubuntu's add/remove programs feature which is right in a menu.

    Plus, installing my tablet was frickin easy, i was surprised. My tablet is a Genius MousePen tablet (8x6) and all i had to do, was drive around tha neighborhood, and point my finga at a house and say, tha bad guys ah in there!

    rofl i couldn't resist usin the arnold quote. anyways, i had to use the command prompt, but reading a tutorial in the Ubuntu forum and following it word for word was all I had to do and everything works perfectly. Installing a Wacom tablet must be even easier since files are in the synaptic package manager (which is a really nice menu-driven approach to installing stuff)

    hahah, yea i guess i'm sorta' a nerd about linux and open-source software. anyways, thanks for the thanks and it's a wise choice to avoid Vista and stick with XP *cough* devil worshipper! lol jk

    Cheerio mate! =)

    and yea, emoticons are practically everywhere in drive-names and the command prompt. i think this is a true sign that i spend way to much frickin time on the internetz

    Last edited by TheComicFilmBoy; March 1st, 2008 at 02:55 AM. Reason: forgot 2 mention somethin
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    Quote Originally Posted by JL.Alfaro View Post
    wassermelon- thanks man, thats some great news!

    edit: just found this:
    http://www.wacom-europe.com/uk/downl...ver/driver.asp
    But i wonder why there are notes on MAC OS X under WINDOWS drivers' section%)
    That's really, really interesting

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    A quick note: If you happen to be left handed, or use the mouse left handed with the buttons flipped, Vista will totally screw you over when you attempt to use your tablet. You'll need a mouse with its own software and programmable buttons.

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    I have run vista and xp(both 64 bit and 8 gigs of ram on a dual quad core system).I do a lot of work in cs3 at fairly high resolution with files around 450 to 750 mb. cs3 will be able to use a little more ram in the 64 bit architecture but last I checked was still topping out at 3.7. It still hasn't been totally optimized for a 64 bit scheme. I have found very little diffrence in the actual applications that I use (CS3, Painter X, Z brush, mudbox and sketchbook pro). There are some diffrences in printing and scanning. File transfer on vista(64 bit or 32 for that matter) can inexplicably slow to a crawl at least on large files. This is a common problem that I have seen described at length online but it is supposed to bennefit from the service pack that will be out any day now...so they(the developers and tech sites) say. When I ran vista I ended up turning off all the glossy features in favor of performance so it ended up looking like xp anyway.

    There's an article on the Photoshop blog that goes way deep into the 64bit question if you're bored:
    http://blogs.adobe.com/scottbyer/200..._bitswhen.html

    Last edited by Penumbra; March 1st, 2008 at 05:45 AM.
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    Penumbra- thnks for that informative link, answered some questions for me.
    Well the main reason why I decided to get more memory was (the file size, up until now I had a limit of 2g)and having multiple apps running. I usually have a media player open, firefox, PS & Painter or PS & illo, sometimes I have a toddler on my lap and cartoons playing on the second screen...which is why Im thinking on going three (lacking room and dont know if the misses will like it).

    not really into vista for its pretty-ness, you can do most of that in xp with various other apps. but I did like the security etc..

    Krazy- you know, you make it sound easy man...I might get a second pc and try it out, we'll see

    one last thing..
    i can haz leopard on my pc?
    http://lifehacker.com/348653/install...cking-required

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