Gun concept """Third UPDATE"""
 
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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Gun concept """Third UPDATE"""

    Last edited by JanDegler; February 29th, 2008 at 09:41 AM.
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    interesting. There's so much black that it's really difficult to tell what's going on in the gun. In concept art, you really usually need to show as much as possible so the modellers have a good idea of what they're trying to create. You'll see some illustrations that have large dark areas, but a lot of the time, it'll be that dark on the model just to hide clipping issues. It's certainly something to be avoided if you can help it.

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    That is really a very very important point that I didnt think of.....LOL
    Thanks for this precious advice...

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    you're welcome. now go draw!

    Lake Hurwitz
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    Unhappy UPDATE..I think Im done...

    Where could I improve that????
    THX for any replies...

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    Last edited by JanDegler; February 15th, 2008 at 06:08 AM.
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    Straight up, the gun needs a folding stock of some kind, it's too short otherwise to justify having a sight that big - the regular gun sights would do just fine.

    I like the vent holes running along the front of the barrel, and a lot of the technical detailing, but I'm not sold on the rocket launcher, it's like... well, it reminds me of the old-skool Warhammer 40k Orcs and their lunatic weapons, so it could work, but the fiction would need to support the idea of whacky weapons. There's a definite post apocalyptic vibe to it.

    Some questions relating to how the design fits into the world:

    What type of ammunition does it use?
    What is its primary fire mode?
    Who was it designed for? (military, police, assassin, etc.)
    What role was it intended to have?
    What are its strengths and weaknesses?
    Does it fit into a range of weapons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janto View Post
    What type of ammunition does it use?
    What is its primary fire mode?
    Who was it designed for? (military, police, assassin, etc.)
    What role was it intended to have?
    What are its strengths and weaknesses?
    Does it fit into a range of weapons?
    Well hard to say, I really didnt think that much about it...hehe its just a concept you know, I didnt have to create a whole world and history about it... I just had to do a gun design....

    But of course I thought about its ammunition...i guess its laser based..and the primary fire mode is the laser...
    I cant answer the rest of of your questione because I havent thought about it....

    THX for your honest opinon.....

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    looks better since we can see it. The thing about creating "whole worlds" for tiny concepts is that it really REALLY helps the final image. really. the audience can always tell when something is truly considered vs. something that was just plopped out.

    Lake Hurwitz
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    I agree with panda. Creating whole world and history behind single concept is exactly what makes it look interesting and believable. Even it there is no need to that, you should go in that direction rather than avoid it in everything you create.

    As for the gun design. I think the scope is not enough functional beacause it's front where you look through it is partially covered with this very high rear sight. You also sketched very tiny front sight very close to the muzzle and it can't be there beacause you can't use it while shooting. It hides behind that thicker part of the gun and you also already have one.

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    hrm. scopewise, if you look at images of guns with scopes, most of the time they have a shoulder brace, like with a rifle. this makes it easier to steady the gun when it's being held up near the head. Otherwise you might just have a laser sight.

    Lake Hurwitz
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    HEHE yes...you are all right...I know.....well Ill think about creating whole worlds ..in the next assignment....I already have one... hehe..Illl post it!!!

    THX DJ

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    Well, its looking good, now that you got rid of the darkness. And since its a laser gun, I guess you really wouldnt need a stock to go with it. Its like a grungy raygun in a way, right? But my critique, would be the human. We know how the weapon looks, but if you dont know how to draw a human, it can ruin the concept in general. I would recommend just a basic scale human to show the size of it. Not to be rude or anything, just wanted to let you know that, especially if your using this for a portfolio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Blacksmith View Post
    Well, its looking good, now that you got rid of the darkness. And since its a laser gun, I guess you really wouldnt need a stock to go with it. Its like a grungy raygun in a way, right? But my critique, would be the human. We know how the weapon looks, but if you dont know how to draw a human, it can ruin the concept in general. I would recommend just a basic scale human to show the size of it. Not to be rude or anything, just wanted to let you know that, especially if your using this for a portfolio.
    No problem at all...we are here to learn...the others ( panda, farvus ) have brought me an insight that I never would have achieved on my own.... ;-)

    Well about the human I really thought that it should be as a "biped" or like a pupp and shouldnt look realistic because then otherwise he would draw too much attention on himself....he just there to show some scale....

    Big thanks guys I really can use all your advice!!!!

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    That rocket is totally useless and entirely out of place. A rocket being fired out of that short of a barrel would be entirely inaccurate, wildly dangerous to the user, and extremely ineffective at even the shortest of ranges (unless you were shooting point blank in which case it would then become useless because the purpose of a gun is to keep the user alive, not be the cause of his death).

    Loose the rocket, and you'll be in business as far as the weapon then being able to fit into a sub-compact category of some sort.

    The scaling is way off here as well, the way you have the grip depicted here it looks like that grip would do better on a two-handed sword than a large laser pistol/small sub-machine laser gun thing.

    You need to get references to work from. What category are you attempting to fit this into exactly? That should be the first question you ask yourself. After you answer that google up that type of weapon. For example if you think to yourself "well, I want a heavy rapid fire laser weapon for shock troops" then you would do well to search for a heavy infantry rifle such as the m-60. If you're wanting a light sub-machine gun designed for use by maybe a tactical infiltration unit then searching for something small such as an HK MP5 would work. If it's a laser pistol you're after then there are a plethora of different real world pistols you could use as reference. If it were to be a large pistol of some sort then it wouldn't hurt to take a look at long pistols.

    What you have here isn't a terrible start. I mean hell, I haven't made many clean weapon designs (in fact, I've only made one actually thought out weapon design and that was ages ago). But really it just looks like a bunch of random parts from different stuff cobbled together, and then you said "hey! it will look more futury if I put some lights and a scope on it!".

    I think it might be wise to start over, make a whole page of tiny little 1" x 1" silhouette thumbnails of your idea, then choose the one that looks most pleasing, flesh it out in a few rough drafts with a few different options, choose the one that fits the weapons "history" (that is the weapons intended purpose, and who it is meant to be used by), flesh that out and work up to the final product.

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    I'm no weapon expert but if it's supposed to be a laser weapon then why does it have what looks like a mag with bullets?

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    Exclamation

    Hey guys many thanks for these usefull replies!

    Ok first I have to say that I didnt come up with the original gun design myself!
    Here the original pic:
    I printed it out and drawed over the pic...it didnt take me so long, I was in a hurry and some time preasure...

    // This is actually my very first gun concept that I ever did//

    So I scanned it back in and worked on it...
    This is what I came up with....

    I absolutely know that there are multiple things that dont work together, but this is going to be a futuristic game, so there also can be some designs that do not fit together....maybe the rocket is made out of some material that is super extra light or something...do you know what I mean???

    I just left my imagination some free space and didnt think this whole thing trough....why?? Because I really do this just for fun! I dont think that I am supposed to think about every tigny detail here...
    BTW The one who gave me the assignment was really happy about it....so I am happy too!!!

    I think I really understand your arguments and Ill try to think about it in the future!! Big hugs and thanks for your help I really appreciate it!!!
    I learned a lot!!!

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    ughghhghgh.... a PAINTOVER? I critted a PAINTOVER?!

    Lake Hurwitz
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    ^^^ What he said.

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  22. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sepulverture View Post
    ^^^ What he said.
    What exactly do you you mean by that?
    I cant help it, but wasnt it right to say the truth here??
    Whats bad about a paintover?

    The assignment said I must start with a existing weapon... so what the f...???!!!

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    that's the sort of thing you oughtta let us know from the get go, instead of using that as an excuse to blow off crits given to you.

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    ...Hey I really do not blow them off, in my first reply I did say thank you, and I really dont try to use them as an excuse....!!!

    I am sorry that I didnt say that from the start!! Please forgive me...

    I dont know why I didnt say that from the start... weird...

    Well I guess this is a lesson for me to being a noob..in this kind of stuff...

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    Heres another and I hope Ill do alright now....
    I started with the first pic and made out of ot the seond one which is the final concept....actually its the same procedure like in the first one....
    I know there is alot to crit here so lets get it on....

    Sorry again for my first post...this was I think a bit of a misunderstanding....
    I hope its better that way now...

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    The thing about us critting a paintover is..... you're displaying a piece of concept art that the concept wasn't entirely yours to begin with. I feel cheated, personally.

    The thing about concept art is that we begin the ideation process... if we're going to work off of someone else's idea it cheapens our own product.

    That said, working from REFERENCE is fine. directly painting over another piece of art or a photo earns you only derision (unless it's just like an element, like the stock or the barrel)

    Everything comes in degrees.

    Also, it invalidates some of my earlier crits. If I had known you were working from a picture already I could have helped you better in that direction!

    Lake Hurwitz
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    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    The thing about us critting a paintover is..... you're displaying a piece of concept art that the concept wasn't entirely yours to begin with. I feel cheated, personally.

    The thing about concept art is that we begin the ideation process... if we're going to work off of someone else's idea it cheapens our own product.
    Hmmm I have never looked at it that way... but I agree that you are absolutely right about that!!

    How would have you approached this assignment if you would have got it??
    It was said that I should start from a gun that already exsists... ??!!

    THX for your answer!

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  28. #25
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    yea - start from a gun that exists already... use reference! there's tons of it lying around and it lets you create your own stuff.



    I'm not trying to say that paintovers are all bad. They're oftentimes very useful and they're how some concept cars, spaceships, and matte paintings get made.

    But keep in mind that we were critting this piece of work as though it was all you - from the ground up. WE DIDN'T KNOW. so we feel blindsided.

    now that we know, it's a little better. Just please tell people next time when someone starts critting the usefulness of your weapon, heh. It'll help us steer you in the right direction.




    personally with this brief I would have drawn the damn thing from scratch using ref. sounds like your client doesn't know exactly what he wants, but knows that existing weapons are already cool.

    Lake Hurwitz
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    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post



    personally with this brief I would have drawn the damn thing from scratch using ref. sounds like your client doesn't know exactly what he wants, but knows that existing weapons are already cool.
    I guess thats absolutely right!

    Thank you for all the advice I will keep it in mind!!! I think I will also try out to start from scratch now...

    Ill post some more as soon as its done....

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    All that aside, I do like the 2nd Gun concept you made...the knife in the handle is pretty sweet and I could picture it.

    At the same time, I don't know how much close-combat snipers see. The SAW handle feels a little 'tacked' on as well. I would consider a bi-pod attachment or similar piece of hardware for a sharpshooter. That is...if the gun doesn't just look like a barett model when you're done.

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  32. #28
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    nice weapons. I really like the first one ^^

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    Hey, well it is nice to see your source material, it helps a LOT. I like where you're going with the new gun, it's got a more robust, Soviet feel to the reference gun, but a couple of quick points. Sorry if it sound overly negative, these are just issues to consider.

    I don't think the laser pointer is valid where it is - basically, it's too high up from the barrel to be much use for targetting. (and something like that can be built into the main scope easily enough anyway)

    There's something off about the gun's stock. This is the most serious mechanical 'issue' with the gun as it stands - the distance between the stock and trigger seems to be too close for comfortable shooting given the length of the rest of the gun, and the cushioned stock isn't clear, it took me a while to realise that there was a regular stock there. I think you should look at the form of the reference gun's stock again to see the distance between the stock and the trigger.

    The last issue is the idea of the bipod. Maybe I've been spending too long pouring over RPG gun lists, and it wasn't clear for you, but the structure underneath the barrel, forwards from the magazine, is a fold-out bipod (well, I'm 80% sure it is, anyway, having never touched a real gun in my life) This is a VITAL sniper accessory for stabilization, and should probably be included in a long-barreled gun like this, even if it is a laser rifle.

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    Talking

    Thanks for the answer. I will be thinking about it when Ill be doing my next rifle... well sometimes I just dont want to think about design too much...this is a thinng that I took from Carlos Huante in his really great videos...."sometimes thinking is a problem".
    I recommend these videos too everyone...

    Here is a a chain gun that I did.....
    I wanted to mix up a meele weapon with a ranged weapon... I like the look.

    I know that there would be a major reload problem in the gun.

    This is not a paintover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I did the gun all by myself.....
    I used other chainguns as a reference....

    That is still a WIP...

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