Any good book on Frank Reilly's method?

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    Any good book on Frank Reilly's method?

    Hi!
    I've recently came a cross Frank Reilly's method of drawing and become very interested in this subject. I found some scraps of information about it here on Ca and on the web but a would love to read some more in-depth explonations.

    I found number of books based on Reilly's lectures on amazon but I not sure if they are reliable source... but at the other hand thats all the information i can get since studying at one of art schools teaching this method is not an option What do You think? Are this book woth the price or maybe there some other- better sources?

    Here's what i found:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/155...=1RT1OLY2AFZ4D
    The Artist's Atelier: Reference guide to Structural Concepts and Principles by Henry J.T. Doren

    http://www.amazon.com/Frank-Reilly-S...2818184&sr=8-1
    The Frank Reilly School of Art by Doug Higgins

    http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Draw...2818226&sr=1-1
    Mastering Drawing the Human Figure From Life, Memory, Imagination by Jack Faragasso

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    Thanks for reply Brittons. I've seen it already. Thats partly what made me so interested in this method actualy. I saw some drawing head demos on nathan Fowkes blog ( http://nathanfowkes.blogspot.com) and Ron Lemen tutorials that seem to use some of Reilly's concept as well. What i'am looking for is more indepth explonations especialy regarding finding rythem in figure.

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    Oh... well, good you have that. Why not just e-mail Ron directly and ask him if he might send or point you in the right direction for this stuff? I took a few classes with him and I know that he's very, very dedicated to passing this stuff on and has lots of print-outs and information on Reilly and his abstractions, etc, etc. Another thing that might help is to check out the California Art Institute in Westlake Village at http://www.calartinst.com

    When I was student there, it was run by a man named Buddy who still runs it I think. They have two print-out books that they sold of Fred Fixler, Glen Orbik, Morgan Weistling, Greg Pro and Frank Reilly's drawings. They're FULL of awsome examples of people applying those abstractions and structural concepts that Reilly had to the live model. If you ask Buddy to send them to you, I'm sure he would. I got them about 10 years ago and they only charged me like $15.00 apiece, which was VERY worthwhile.

    Jeff Watts at the Watts Atelier is also an expert at the whole "Reilly Method" thing. He's not teaching as much and is probably very busy with his painting career now, but his teachers there might be able to hook you up with those printouts and drawings like that. Erik Gist at www.erikgist.com is also another person who knows that stuff in and out and can point you in the right direction for finding that information. Hope that helps...

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    Wow! Thanks a lot! Thats realy helpfull. I will do as You suggest and hopefully get some valuable knowladge . Thanks again!

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    Do NOT get the Henry Doren book! The information in it isn't wrong (mostly), but it's presented so badly that it will most likely only confuse things. Plus, all the illustrations and diagrams look like they were done in MSpaint. Literally.

    Doug Higgens' book is basically the same information as is on his page. It's not very expensive, though, so it's worth buying to have in hardcopy, and because Doug is a good guy and you should send him money.

    Faragasso's drawing book is also worth picking up, although he does tend to overcomplicate Reilly's already complicated system. The real book to get by him is The Student's Guide to Painting, but it's out of print and copies are outrageously overpriced when they're available.

    Another out of print book by a Reilly student is John Grado's Mastering the Craft of Painting, which doesn't go for as much as the Faragasso painting book. It's a good overview of Reilly's system, both drawing and painting, although he does leave some important stuff out, and only the first half of the book is Reilly based.

    The most comprehensive book on the Reilly method is Apollo Dorian's Values for Pictures Worth a Thousand Words. Ordering information can be found here, and although it looks like a dead site (you can't order on line, only by sending a check, and none of the contact emails work), I do know that people who have ordered recently have gotten the book.

    Last edited by Elwell; February 12th, 2008 at 07:40 PM.

    Tristan Elwell
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    Thanks for reply Elwell. Higgen's and Faragasso's books seem to be a good choice. You seem to be really weel informed in this subject by the way. Mind If i ask how did You learn reilly's method? From books You mentioned or at some art school? Do You happen to know some good exaples of using this method ( preferably in drawing )? Something similar to drawing portrait demos on Nathan Fowkes blog would be great

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    Hey Kalen,

    Have you received the Higgins book as yet? I'm thinking about picking up a copy and I'd like your opinion please.

    Thanks!

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    Not yet. I will let You know as soon as i get it.

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    I tried to order this book but could not get the website to accept an order. Did you do it online? If so, how and where. Judy

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    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

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    Thanks, I just ordered it. Judy

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    BTW, I just ordered a copy of Apollo Dorian's book and it came within a week of my sending off the check, no problem.


    Tristan Elwell
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    I've just got my copy of Frank Reilly school of art few days ago and wanted to share my opinion with anybody interested in purchasing this book. First thing is some people may find this book quite complicated and explanations in it not clear enough. It's quite short considering all the material it covers. Each concept is explained very briefly and usually only one example drawing is given. Generally everything fills like You were actually reading notes taken by reilly's student from his lectures ( but that much You could tell from reading the part available online ). Having said that I still think that this book is really worth buying. After reading numerous books on subject I find some of the concepts in it really innovative! I wouldn't recommended it to somebody just starting but it's surely great choice if You already got some fundamentals worked out. I didn't get any other book on Reily's method yet ( I found Faragasso's book a bit to expensive regarding all the not so positive opinions about it I heard ) but I'm surely doing some proper research on the subject after reading this book!

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    Frank Reilly

    Just a note of thanks for linking to my web site. My name is Doug Higgins and I wrote a book based on my notebook from when I was Frank Reilly's student and monitor 35 yrs ago. Thank you, kalen, for the book description/crtitique. All the feedback I can get is usefull and yours seems to me to be carefully considered. If I ever do a revision, I'll find your thoughts usefull. Yes, it's complicated material and perhaps my explanations and illustrations of the text are a little spare, maybe more than a little.
    Doug Higgins www.dhfa.net

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  20. #16
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    Doug, it's great to have you stop by. Your web pages and book are definitely the best introduction to Reilly's teaching available. Thank you so much for keeping this valuable information alive.


    Tristan Elwell
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    Hi, Just some words on Frank J. Reilly.
    I studied with Frank Reilly at New York's Art Students League and at his private school The Frank Reilly School of Art. Some of my class mate were Peter Max, Roger Kastel (of JAWS poster fame), Walt Gonske, and Doug Higgins (in fact I was the drawing class monitor when Walt and Doug joined the class and I provided some of the details for Doug's book, as he acknowledged).
    The scope and scale of what Reilly taught is truly vast. No book has covered everything he taught, particularly his lecture on Picture Making (as he called it). And Picture Making was the end objective of all he taught. Reilly truly wanted his students to be accomplished professional and that meant the ability to create a picture.
    If anyone is interesting I can further detail this subject. Let me know.

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    Candido,
    Any information you have would be greatly appreciated!


    Tristan Elwell
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    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

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    Frank J. Reilly Info

    Some more info on Frank J. Reilly.
    Reilly never wrote a book on his approach to teaching the craft of drawing and painting. The books that have been written on Reilly's method are based on notes taken down by students during the course of the many lectures he gave. And unfortunately many aspects of what Reilly taught has been poorly documented, and other aspects not at all.

    One facet of Reilly's teaching approach is his unique use of the Munsell Color Notation System in teaching traditional representational painting.
    One of the fundamental problems in representational painting is that the range of Value (light to dark) which can be seen in nature grossly exceeds the range of Values which can be mixed with artist colors. Consequently a representational painter cannot copy the Values he sees, but rather translate what he sees he terms of the Values he can mix. Reilly taught how to effect this translation.

    Reilly taught that the values on the light and shadow sides of the object being painted must have the correct relationships in order to create an illusion of reality. And he stated the fundamental relationship as "white in shadow is darker than black in the light". This relationship can be observed again and again in the great master representation paintings.

    A logical question to ask is "how dark is white in shadow?". Reilly's answer in terms of the Munsell system is that it depends on the lighting conditions, in normal indoor form lighting white in shadow is at Munsell Value 4 and black in the light is at Value 4.5. From this relationship other can be developed such as Caucasian skin in shadow is at Value 3 (normal indoor form lighting). In fact Reilly developed a glossary of value relationships for form, front, back, and rim lighting; for painting the figure outdoors, landscapes under different weather conditions (grass in the sunlight is at Value Eight).

    No, this is not a paint by number strategy, it is a quantification of what great representational painters worked out over the centuries, a form of reverse engineering.

    To see the results of this approach take a look at the work of these Reilly students, Ted Seth Jacobs, James Bama, Clark Hulings, Michael Aviano, Peter Max, Walt Gonske (Google their names). And students of these students such as Jacob Collins,

    Write with any questions.

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    Candido, I think you'll find most posters here would never dismiss an organised system of values as "paint by numbers".

    Have a look around (assuming the search isn't broken this week) and you'll see guys like Munsell, Dunn, Loomis, Reilly, Bridgman, Faragasso etc are very well respected here.
    As you said though, Reilly never really wrote a definitive book so any information that you could share would be a very welcome addition to the knowledge pool.

    Last edited by Flake; April 28th, 2008 at 10:38 AM.
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    In response to a posted comment ,here are my thoughts on books dealing with Frank Reilly's approach to teaching drawing and painting.
    All the books cover, in varying degrees of success, Reilly's core concepts on drawing and painting. None indicate the full scope and scale of what Reilly taught.
    To get some idea of the range of Reilly's approach consider this:
    Reilly would lecture twice a week for approximately 46 to 48 weeks within a year. Each lecture would ranged in length from 45 to 60 minutes, occasionally even 1.5 hours. The core lectures would be repeater each year (always with some variations). However many topics were covered as time permitted and would be given sporadically. I studied with Reilly for nearly four years (mostly in the evening class) and I did not heard all his lectures, some I heard only once.
    In addition to his lectures and largely undocumented are the comments Reilly made as he critiqued students in the painting class, especially the advanced students. Here Reilly would discuss the nuances of representational paining, edges, painting in the light, pulling paint, brushwork, etc.

    Given the above a good book on Reilly's approach to painting is Jack Faragasso's "Student's Guide To Painting" (it only deals with painting the figure indoors). It does provide Reilly's core concepts on painting (this area could be greatly expanded). The major problem with this book is that Faragasso mangles Reilly's use of the Munsell system to quantify values. Faragasso also does not cover the all important modeling factors and their step by step implementation.

    Faragasso's book "Mastering Drawing:The Human Figure" provides the most complete account of Reilly's approach to drawing. It would have been useful if an explanation had been provided of Reilly's goal in drawing, of the distinction between structure and anatomy and why Reilly downplayed anatomy, and the inclusion of drawings which clearly show how information on planes are put into action. Lots of information here, perhaps a bit overwhelming without someone at your shoulder pointing out the way as was done in class (Reilly's program was a carefully planned step by step progression which took into account a student's level of skill and knowledge).

    The book I recommend for truly serious students of Reilly's method, with many caveats, is "Values For Pictures Worth A Thousand Words" by Apollo "Nick" Dorian. This book is based on Reilly's own handwritten notes.
    The book details Reilly's use of the Munsell system, painting procedures, lectures on landscape painting, painting the nude outdoors (great stuff), painting under colored lights,etc. The book also cover aspect of drawing which complement Faragasso's book.
    The caveats:
    The book has a large section on mechanical drawing which Reilly only mentioned in passing (the author taught mechanical drawing in a New York City high school).
    The book has no illustrations only a wealth of diagrams.
    The book is densely written, in places difficult to understand, no index, but this is the only source for much of this material.

    The second book I recommend deals with Reilly's approach to Picture Making.
    Picture making was the end goal of everything Reilly taught. In Reilly's view creating a picture was a two step process, the design of the picture, and the composition of the picture. The design of a picture deals with the abstract elements in a picture, while the composition of a picture deals with the representational elements in a pictures and their placement so as to focus attention and interest ( Reilly once told me that he considered Georges Braque a superb picture designer whose paintings only lacked representational elements).
    The only source for Reilly's approach to picture design is "The Art of Color and Design" by Maitland Graves. Although Reilly is nowhere mentioned in the text this book is based on lectures Reilly gave at Pratt Institute. Reilly had a fit when this book was published, but his students purchased it anyways as it was an easy way to acquire this information (the author did a fine a fine job of presenting Reilly's concepts and diagrams). Well worth looking this book up.
    On composition the only thing I have are nearly 50 years old notes written on now bitten news print.

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  28. #22
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    Candido, thank you for your comments on the available books, and for the info on the Maitland Graves book (I just ordered a copy).


    Tristan Elwell
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  29. #23
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    Here's the text of a 1979 article on Reilly from American Artist magazine. The illustrations are missing, but outside of a diagram of the "six line" figure, they are primarily works by artists who studied with him. The article is too long to post, so I'm attaching a text file.

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Elwell; May 9th, 2008 at 03:26 PM.

    Tristan Elwell
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    Elwell,just a few words on Graves' book. His Charters 11 and 12 are particularly worthy of close study and the fabrication of the "Color Cabinet" is a terrific resource in designing a picture.
    Apollo Dorian's book come with a quite accurate laminated 9 step Munsell gray scale which is a must to really get into Reilly's approach. A very accurate gray scale can be purchased from the Munsell Company at a really steep price. Let me know if you have any questions, I'll try to answer them. Very good luck to you.

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    In this months IFX magazine Ron Lemen writes a quite interesting article about reilly's figure structure approach, also has three vids of him drawing using said methods on the dvd. Worth a look!

    My Life drawing class blog.
    http://www.wiredwood.blogspot.com
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  32. #26
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    Speak of the devil, Leif Peng, on his excellent Today's Inspiration illustration blog, has spent the week talking about Reilly.
    EDIT: Aha, Candido, I see this isn't such a coincidence after all!


    Tristan Elwell
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    Hey, all this information has been great, im trying to sort out which of these books i should get...or rather in what order i can afford to buy my way through them.

    What im really after is a book to teach me about tone, and colour. It seems like most of these books deal with these, but are they the best for books on the subject. I pretty much only do digital work, so im not after a book too concerned with dealing with traditional materials. (but of course a background in this is always going to be helpful)

    What would you recommend outside of the Reilly books, im having real trouble finding good examples.

    Last edited by Law; May 13th, 2008 at 11:05 PM.
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    There's a guy named Mark Westermoe who used to run a school called Associates in Art in Los Angeles, (Sherman Oaks).

    He taught Reilly method and he had put out some videos showing the technique, portrait, figure, etc. I don't know what's become of Mark or if those vids are available anymore but maybe someone out there does.

    Actually, maybe this guy does, after a google search this page popped up from ccsears where he mentions Mark's vids and Reilly method...

    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...=100297&page=6

    You are a level 8 ninja and even though you have a lot of weapons sometimes your ninja moves are your most powerful.
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  35. #29
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    Has anyone ordered the Apollo Dorian book recently? I would like to order one but the emails I send come back.

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  36. #30
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    I ordered it about six months ago. My emails weren't responded to either, but I went ahead and sent the check anyway and received it no problem.

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