Death, Life, and suicide
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Thread: Death, Life, and suicide

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    Death, Life, and suicide

    *EDIT* please excuse my horrible wording, I'm not the best at putting my thoughts into written word

    One year ago today, a long time friend of mine took his own life. I'm sitting here at my job/school staring at the computer screen and contemplating death while nursing a somach ache, and everything feels so insignificant. It's weird to say that because I almost feel like I'm saying something stereotypical of a person who has just dealt with death, but I just now understand that feeling of insignificance and frustration. It's such a strange sensation to me because this is the first death I've experienced where I was old enough to understand the feeling of loss. I've been almost disturbingly numb to the passing of loved ones in the past, even when it was my own family.

    The thing I want to discuss with everyone is death itself. We know it's inevitable, but we instinctively fear it and view it almost as the ultimate negative. Why? I mean after having given it a lot of thought over the years, the only conclusion I can reach about my opinion of death is...when it comes..at least I'll know for sure what happens when you die. But if death is so inevitable, then it's ridiculous to want to avoid it so badly right? If the only reason our instincts tell us to avoid death is so that we can enjoy life (you know....treasure every breath kinda deal) then doesn't that mean that some consciousness wants us to enjoy these moments of life? And if that's true, then does that mean there is some kind of God?

    And if we are going to die, and life is about enjoying the moments in it, then why are so many of us obsessed with health? It's just delaying the inevitable, buying more time by avoiding the foods that most people enjoy and mainting these strict diets and we as a people deem this "good." Why?! I'm not saying my opinion is for or against this way of thinking, but I keep asking myself "what the hell is the point?" To buy more time with our loved ones? Is that what it is? That's the most valid reason I can come up with, but even that is so up to chance that the point of it still doesnt make sense to me.

    We rush through this life trying to achieve our goals, most of us busting our ass to build up our art skills. I think most in this community have common dreams, a few will achieve them. I'd love to think the majority will, and that only hardwork will bring that majority closer to those dreams, but I can't bring myself to believe that the world is so fair. This rant probably makes me sound like I'm depressed or emo or some shit, but I'm not. I'm actually extremely full of eagerness and ambition to bring my dreams to fruition. I'm preparing all kinds of storylines to develop later on, I'm preparing a portfolio to apply to the atelier. I've got a great girlfriend, like-minded friends, and a growing sense discipline (which has been a pain in the ass to cultivate and maintain for a slacker/highschool drop out like me.) But today I allowed myself to consider the point of what I'm doing, and how upset I would be if I died before being able to achieve my goals.

    The reason I'm posting this here as opposed to some blog is because I really want to hear what you all think. I've been a small part of this community for years now, this forum taught me the importance of life drawing, anatomy, perspective, pretty much all the foundation stuff. This forum turned me from a 17 year old kid doodling picture out of his favorite comic books and anime, into a 22 year old guy seriously studying and practicing all the art fundamentals trying to understand the essentials of good image-making. Your opinions as a community have always fascinated me, and I feel like I want to put a part of my experiences out there and see how everyone else feels.

    Last edited by BlackGuy; December 28th, 2007 at 03:53 PM.
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    When you are dead, be it after 94 years of good life, or after 17 short ones, what difference does enaything you have done in your life make? If you've had a succesful career, all you leave behind is really a good inheritance for your grand children. If you have been a famous great man, all you leave behind is your memory. You can take NOTHING of this world into the grave.

    This doesn't mean that life is a meaningless space of time before you die. Neither does it mean that with the short time you have on your hands, you should JUST make the best of it, i.e. enjoying the best pleasures, just partiyng because it doesn't matter after you're dead.

    There is a greater meaning to life.

    So PM me if you want to hear more about this Jesus thing.

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    No one knows for sure what happens when you die. All that we know is that it's unavoidable. Even if death can be prevented by scientific achievements, who would really want to live forever? If I could, I would love to live to be a few hundred years old, healthy and young, and finally pass away painlessly and peacefully surrounded by all my grand children. But, that ain't gonna happen.

    I think you've finally come to a point in your life (the "quarter-life crisis") where you begin to start thinking about this stuff, since you're nearing the zenith of your mental and physical health and childhood is finally behind you. I'm only 27, and I'm already freaking out about dying. How will I die? A heart attack? A stroke? Cancer? I fear death... not particularly what happens AFTER you die... just the physiological process of death. Death itself, I view it as what a monster under the bed is to a child. It's not as scary as it may seem, but to the child, it's the most frightening thing in the world. What I hope what happens is that I can still feel, think, and love. What frightens me the most is that I just become non-existant... nothing.

    Anyway, I'm working very hard because I want to leave something positive after I die, so I'm still connected to the world even after I'm gone.

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    Life is a finite blank sheet of paper. You can fill it with whatever you wish without worrying about what lies off the edges.

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

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    This time you have now may be all there is. Live it. I can't see how such an approach would make any difference to you if there was an afterlife after all. On the other hand, if there is none, then this was your only chance. Don't waste it.

    I am not saying to go nuts and abandon all sense of ethics or self preservation. I am saying savor this life that you have.

    I realize that is easier said than done sometimes. I have a laundry list of physical stuff that I have to go through on a regular basis (probably MS) but I am making the most of it. I have seen a lot of people get snuffed out way too young and leave a lot of unfinished business. It's tragic. Fight through the bad times and take your shots at the things you want to accomplish.

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    Nothing is truly constant- the universe will die one day, or at least be so drastically different that it has moved beyond that which we are capable of perceiving. We're apes... monkeys... tree shrews... fish with legs... complicated tubes of goo. We're probably not the most complicated things the universe has to offer, and chances are we have no higher authorities to answer to; any more powerful beings in the cosmos probably don't give a shit what we do with our dime-a-dozen gooey little planet. We have only ourselves, our hedonistic, greedy, awful selves- or was that our pleasure-seeking, altruistic, loving selves... either way, those are our instincts, and for good or ill, we're stuck with them. Evolution will happen as it will- nobody ever said it was supposed to be fair. Who was it that said "The strong do what they will, the weak suffer what they must."? It's not an ideological statement, just an observation of the way things are. We like to think we have conscious control over our own fate as a species, but the truth is that power and destruction lie in the hands of irrational beings- governments and corporations. Those entities rarely anticipate their own deaths, merely avoiding it instinctively like any animal would. We like to think we're capable of steering that, but it always ends up going its own way, heedless of the conscience that spawned it. The fact that we're even still around despite this seemingly self-destructive propensity is evidence, to me at least, of our overall inherent goodness, love of our fellow humans, and viability as a species. The best we can do as individuals is to maintain that, for the good of the species (I don't want to hear any crap from people proposing human extinction. We have just as much right to do what we do as the Deccan Traps had to kill off the dinosaurs, or the Insects had to colonize land.). This extends to maintaining our planet in a sustainable manner, of course. That's simple preservation. Death is just part of being an animal. It sucks, but we've been doing it for billions of years. Everything dies, Everything changes. Make the best of your coincidence.

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    I wrote a really long ramble here, but suddenly it was gone, I must have touched the backspace or something.

    Essence:

    There is no meaning with life. The dinosaurs lived for 100 millions of years, for what? What have they left? Nothing. I don't believe in a purpose in life, and destiny is something we have made to comfort ourselves, an excuse for our mistakes.

    No one has made a purpose of your life, make it yourself. All you have is life, and time to live it, so do. Enjoy every fucking moment of it. Carpe diem, seize life.

    I don't believe in a god, I think that there's nothing after death. I don't believe in a soul, or paradise. Why can I then be optimistic about life, some ask.

    I enjoy my life, though not as much as I should do.

    I'm not afraid of death, but I am afraid of dying too soon, to not have enough time.

    Death is invincible, no one survives life. Live it while you do, enjoy yourself, your life and those people around you. Anyone can die any time, there's nothing you can do about it, just do the things you want to while you can.

    Sorry for going off a track.

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    Don't fear, but fear itself. A purpose in life is only what you make of it. You are one small ripple in a numerous amount of wave of events that lead to other conclusions and events. That is a purpose. for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. now to figure out whether it was good or bad is just concepts humans made up. no matter what a person does they will always influence others or things either on a big or small scale. Death is a part of life.


    ...Live long, and prosper/party hard...like it's 2099

    in other words, stop looking for a meaning to life or you will miss out on even having one.

    all I ask is to just not kill anyone intentionally in the process...Please?

    Last edited by Costau D; December 28th, 2007 at 06:20 PM.
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    And, a different take on this is the natural selection one... humanity wants to live because those who want to live tend to live than those who might not, and longer life means you're better able to pass your genes on (or help others to live and do so) and over tens of thousands of years (or millions tending on how far back you look) it makes a difference. I'm not saying people only live to pass their genes on, for, because humans are social creatures, just living a productive life benefits others who continue the human race.

    Except for in some special cases, all animals spend their lives fearing and avoiding death. People are animals, (and, though there are things like suicide, war, and things like that) they generally follow that same instinctual pattern.

    I think the difference (and why people ask those kinds of questions) is that animals generally have no true knowing "record" of death (though there might be some evidence in "higher animals"), so they're only working on the "stay alive" instinct, while people have memories and evidence of loved ones dying (and the world continuing beyond that) on top of that instinct. But it's still there.

    I know your questions are a little "deeper" than that, but you've got to admit I have a point.

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    One thing i never could help getting out of my head. That little talk Agent Smith was giving to Morpheus in The Matrix. Because, it is so true in a way.



    We must try to be a Happy Plague though!

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    There is no reverse gear on life; I guess that's why people are obsessed with health (if they are). It's not like a dvd or video,- you can't rewind or edit; there's no replay. That, for me, is the best reason to strive for a good life, whatever your definition of a "good life" is.

    Birth and death are both parts of life; nobody who experiences the first avoids the last. They're both PART of life, and they both happen when the time is right or fate or chance intervenes. Beyond taking care of our health and not doing stupid things, there is nothing we can do to influence that...
    so all we can do is make our lives as worthwhile to ourselves and as valuable to other people as we can.

    Not sure how much sense that makes to you, but I've had a scare or two myself in the past five years or so, and lost a few people who mattered to me, and that's the best I can come up with. Sorry....

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    Even if longer life can't be guaranteed, diet and exercise give a better quality life. You feel better physically and psychologically. Still it's unfair though, a month of hard training can get all fucked up in about 5 days of no exercise and eating junk food.
    The other stuff I can't answer, too difficult to explain over the internet without having it come across as a cry for help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainInsano View Post

    I think you've finally come to a point in your life (the "quarter-life crisis") where you begin to start thinking about this stuff, since you're nearing the zenith of your mental and physical health and childhood is finally behind you. I'm only 27, and I'm already freaking out about dying. How will I die? A heart attack? A stroke? Cancer? I fear death... not particularly what happens AFTER you die... just the physiological process of death. Death itself, I view it as what a monster under the bed is to a child. It's not as scary as it may seem, but to the child, it's the most frightening thing in the world. What I hope what happens is that I can still feel, think, and love. What frightens me the most is that I just become non-existant... nothing.
    holy shit,i just had a telepathic moment or something,because this is exactly where i stand. (xept that i'm 22)
    now i have to go paint not to freak out over death. (really,thinking about being non-existant freaks me the fuck out)

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    Zaxser is offline Steph Laberis Fanboy Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
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    1, My physical purpose is to preserve and replicate myself.

    2. My social purpose is to better the world around me.

    3. My psychological purpose is to reach and exceed my potential.

    Nothing else will make me or, I believe, anyone else truly happy. When death interferes, kick its ass in any way you can. All the rest is psychological noise.

    EDIT: I hope that didn't come across as one of those crappy kev fererra-esque "so vague it's lame" tautologies. Feel free to critique this in any way you like.

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    I think you've finally come to a point in your life (the "quarter-life crisis") where you begin to start thinking about this stuff, since you're nearing the zenith of your mental and physical health and childhood is finally behind you. I'm only 27, and I'm already freaking out about dying. How will I die? A heart attack? A stroke? Cancer? I fear death... not particularly what happens AFTER you die... just the physiological process of death. Death itself, I view it as what a monster under the bed is to a child. It's not as scary as it may seem, but to the child, it's the most frightening thing in the world. What I hope what happens is that I can still feel, think, and love. What frightens me the most is that I just become non-existant... nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
    holy shit,i just had a telepathic moment or something,because this is exactly where i stand. (xept that i'm 22)
    now i have to go paint not to freak out over death. (really,thinking about being non-existant freaks me the fuck out)
    I actually think I'm over that point, I've felt as you describe, but it's years ago, now my feelings about death are different. I don't agree with the 'quarter-life' thing though, I'm only 15, but I've always been thinking (way too) much.

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    Life is positive. Death is neutral.

    Suffering is the problem.

    Brooding over death is psychological suffering.

    Eating junk and not exercising is courting suffering.

    Courting suffering is insanity.

    At least Icarus tried!


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    i think our exaggerated sense of self-importance and all our false dichotomies are what cause all the sadness...cognitive and emotive dissonance is inevitable.

    analysis (division) is not always good, regardless of what science will have you believe.

    i hope you are all well.

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    Danny my friend. I'm not going to post what I think about this here, coz I prob wouldnt stop talking. But when I get over the pond and meet up wi ya eventually, I'm gonna buy the drinks all night, and we are gonna have a serious chat! About God, the Universe and everything in between, ok!?

    Last edited by Kian; December 29th, 2007 at 10:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iliada View Post
    There is no meaning with life. The dinosaurs lived for 100 millions of years, for what? What have they left?
    Birds and mammals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iliada View Post
    I actually think I'm over that point, I've felt as you describe, but it's years ago, now my feelings about death are different. I don't agree with the 'quarter-life' thing though, I'm only 15, but I've always been thinking (way too) much.
    well,it might not be true for everyone,but most people i've talked to say that they've had a slight breakdown around 20-25 (thinking even more than too much ).imo it's the point where life gives you billions of possibilities,but you don't know which one to grasp,thus you have trouble defining yourself.
    it's what i'm at currently.
    back on topic.

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    I hope this doesn't become crazy long, I'll keep it as concise as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGuy View Post
    One year ago today, a long time friend of mine
    took his own life.
    My condolences.

    I've been almost disturbingly numb to the passing of loved ones in the past, even when it was my own family.
    That's how I am. I haven't lost anyone really close yet though.

    The thing I want to discuss with everyone is death itself. We know it's inevitable, but we instinctively fear it and view it almost as the ultimate negative. Why? But if death is so inevitable, then it's ridiculous to want to avoid it so badly right?
    I think it's the fear of the unknown. My primal fear is great depths and massive creatures down there, like the Kraken. Also, in space. Enter an area of space, no one there, start harvesting, and billions of red dots appear on the radar in a spherical formation. It turns out they're all living, organic ships. Freakin' scary.

    And if we are going to die, and life is about enjoying the moments in it, then why are so many of us obsessed with health? It's just delaying the inevitable, buying more time by avoiding the foods that most people enjoy and mainting these strict diets and we as a people deem this "good." Why?!
    For a lot of people, the current life they have is all they know. Of course they're going to hold on to it. The great glowing, starry, maelstrom below is hella frightening.

    This rant probably makes me sound like I'm depressed or emo or some shit, but I'm not.
    I couldn't imagine judging you that way. From my point of view, you are just questioning. Questioning is a sign of intelligence. Little kids who ask questions about everything grow up to be extremely intelligent people because they have been actively learning all their lives. They drive their parents mad because those parents often feel that they need to know the answer. If you don't know, look it up.

    Frequently, people out there will see your questioning as an attack, so you kind of need to ask in the nicest manner possible. It often strikes an insecurity in their authoritarianism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
    Life is a finite blank sheet of paper. You can fill it with whatever you wish without worrying about what lies off the edges.
    Haha, that's such a nice philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iliada View Post
    There is no meaning with life. The dinosaurs lived for 100 millions of years, for what? What have they left? Nothing.
    How would you know? Are you a dinosaur?

    After watching 300, I found a new level in my spirituality - doing something great without receiving credit. I think it's beautiful. To me, wanting credit for something is like showing off, it's a need to be recognized. It's obvious, and meaningless (to me). I don't have this, and as long as I know this information, or I know I have done something, etc, I'm happy. Proving myself to others is not something I need because I'm happy withing myself.

    I don't believe in a purpose in life, and destiny is something we have made to comfort ourselves, an excuse for our mistakes.
    A mistake is a failure, which is a WIN, because it's a learning experience.

    I think what comes after death depends on one's belief system. There is, however, one true process, but that will probably seem like just another belief system.

    On enjoying every moment - It's like eating food; you might think that having more chocolate makes it more enjoyable, but it still sucks when it's gone. If I slow down and enjoy every little nibble for five minutes, it's a lot more fun for me.

    I will refrain from going into the Soul Development thing because I don't think very many people here will understand it, and those who do, probably know all about it already. For those who are interested, I'll leave you with this.

    EDIT: I just wanted to add a couple things.

    Murder - This is Young Souls creating karma to deal with later on.

    Suicide - Interestingly, this is forbidden in every religion. A lot of religions out there want every other one destroyed, others think their own is the only one that matters, etc. But despite these differences and contrasts, they all have one thing in common - they all forbid self-murder. Suicide creates negative karma because of the people the practioner hurts when they go. When one kills themselves, they have to start the whole Soul Development process again.

    Last edited by Max Challie; December 29th, 2007 at 09:11 PM.
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    I tried thinking of something profound and deeply touching to say, but I cant come up with anything. The only thing I know is that living is as necessary as dying. And like another here, im can only think of one thing from a movie that can state everything I want to say about this, better than I ever could.

    Agent Smith: Why, Mr. Anderson? Why do you do it? Why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting for something? For more than your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? Is it freedom? Or truth? Perhaps peace? Yes? No? Could it be for love? Illusions, Mr. Anderson. Vagaries of perception. The temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose. And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson. You must know it by now. You can't win. It's pointless to keep fighting. Why, Mr. Anderson? Why? Why do you persist?
    Neo: Because I choose to.


    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
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    HunterKiller_ is offline Registered User Level 15 Gladiator: Spartacus' Hoplomachi
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    Sorry to be the pessimist (hey, someone's gotta do the job).
    I think life sucks and it's boring and I wish I lived in a fairy tale, or something epic like that.

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    Oh, and about the diet thing, its about quality of life. Not the starving, anorexic diets, but the ones where you eat lots of healthy stuff. Some people always go "lol I (insert unhealthy behavior here) because life is too short" what they dont realize is life is short because of that behavior. I can think of anyone who has a heart attack going "well im going to die anyways, glad i drank bacon grease every morning for breakfast, now i don't have to wait till im 90 to die" But hey, people can eat, drink, and screw what they want but biology always wins.

    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max A K Challie View Post
    I'll leave you with this.
    I hate the concept of 'choosing our lives and personalities before we're born'. It's unreasonable, how is it possible to have a personality before the experience that shapes it?

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    HunterKiller:

    Read up on some of the latest cosmological theories and observations. Study the evolution of life, planets, stars, and galaxies. This isn't all just stuff off in distant reaches of time and space. This is all happening here, now, within and around you. The universe is a far weirder, more epic event than any fairytale could portray. Life and humanity are integral to the fabric of the universe, just as it is to ours. We may not be the biggest part, but then that's a childish, arrogant assumption to think we're the ultimate focus of it all. If you think of it all as huge and constant and far away as so many have made the mistake of doing, of course it makes you feel tiny and insignificant, casts everything you do and feel in a pointless light. Think of it as an intimately-connected epically-complex process, an infinite tapestry, and you realize life may very well mean something, which may be revealed in what you are and do. It may not be a step toward an ultimate perfect conclusion, but how interesting would that be? You'd need something after that to appreciate it, and then what? We're back to infinity. Through infinity, every event is as important as every other event. Everything is equally awesome forever.

    We shall not cease from exploration
    And the end of all our exploring
    Will be to arrive where we started
    And know the place for the first time.
    -T. S. Eliot

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    Max unless I'm missing something this isn't hard to understand. Everyone's heard the theory of reincarnation before. I think this site is interesting, but they really are borrowing eastern ideas even if they say they aren't.

    These teachings are very spiritual at their core, with many words and ideas that are primarily in Eastern religions, but unlike the religions and beliefs, seek to embrace the human experience in every form as a valid learning experience and an integral part of the whole being. [One thing I never liked about some Eastern philosophies and a lot of New Age beliefs, and religions, was their denial of the physical body as if it were a bad thing that must be overcome.]
    That's not a very nice thing to say. I think this michael group soul guy is the one who doesn't understand other religions. Eastern religions don't deny the physical body, they say it is an illusion. If you're deluded about it, it's real. Reality is different in different states of consciousness.

    Discussions like this end up being an argument over the definition of words if they go on long enough. The question behind this one is "what does the word reality mean?" Too bad there's no real answer to that.

    Last edited by •Lindsay•; December 29th, 2007 at 11:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linzoy View Post
    Max unless I'm missing something this isn't hard to understand. Everyone's heard the theory of reincarnation before.
    What I mean by people not understanding it is that Young Souls will reject this information more than 96% of the time, so it's a waste of time for me.

    More specifically: http://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_age_index.html

    Last edited by Max Challie; January 14th, 2008 at 07:25 PM.
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    I'm a level 3 soul. Now where can i get some EXP so I can lvl up and become more UBER?

    I guess RPGs were too involving for him. Quite an imagination though. Reminds me of L. Ron Hubbard and his concept of dianetics. (we need a smiley with a tin foil hat or Tom Cruise).

    Last edited by Costau D; December 30th, 2007 at 01:55 AM.
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    Zaxser is offline Steph Laberis Fanboy Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max A K Challie View Post
    What I mean by people not understanding it is that Young Souls will reject this information more than 96% of the time, so it's a waste of time for me.

    More specifically: http://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_age_index.html
    That sounds really fishy. Sort of like how some people say that homphobes must have repressed sexual tendencies. It's an appeal to insult that gets a lot of people, and it's retarded.

    Do you Mentler?

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