oblio...i want you to start paying attention to the actual values (levels of light and dark) that you see in life. your images have a nice emotional quality but I would suggest you start to master the values of light and shadow...study what is in front if you...what often will look black is not...just a darker gray...what often looks light (toward the white) is just a lighter shade of middle gray.
I would like it if you made a value scale each time you start to make a new drawing for the next few weeks...get 8-10 shades from black to white. see how many different levels of value you can get from black to white. start with six...use the six values in your value scale to make your image...the light in your still life will fall from middle value on your scale toward white. the shadows will be from middle value on your scale until it gets toward black.
ask questions if you need me to clarify anything.
DRAW THE LIGHTS AND SHADOWS....LOOK CLOSER. your drawing is accurate in placement to a higher degree. now it is time to master your values.
how many different values can you see in the light? how many values in the shadows? do some values happen both in the light and also in the shadow? (reflect light and halftone transition light perhaps)
i'm gonna stick my studies under 'starting again' out in this same forum, just cuz i get confused easily when navigating 34 pages of pics (ex. the self-portraits thread) - there will be new work on that thread every day though i promise!! viva la art...or...yes.
mass light ... the large area in the light...the big shape of lights
halftone transition light...the darkest part of the MASS LIGHT...the darkest "lights"...the darkest part of the field of light hitting an object...often times this occurs right where the forms start turning away from the light and act as a transition value toward the mass shadow...SEE REFLECT LIGHT as it is often the same value.
high lights....the lightest part of the light
mass shadow... the large shape of darks
core shadow...the darkest part of the shadow...happens where the form turns completely away from the lightsource.
reflect light/fill light....the lightest part of the shadow mass...often is the same value as the HALFTONE LIGHT...depending on what is reflecting of course.
that is a basic formula to go by when creating forms...and light sources....three values in light...three values in shadow...granted it gets much more subtle in real life and can be seperated into more values but overall this is the general breakdown of it. be sure your forms have these properties.
can anyone show me an example on some forms of this kind of lighting???????
*runs and wake up everyone in the house*
Thank you Jason. Good feedback will ensure the success of this thread.
I will try to get that 6 values one tonight - I plan to use painter in order to be able to stick to those 6 values.
Is it ok or should I go with the pencils?
I've tried to draw the values as good as i could yet without a value range - just... hmm darker here... lighter there. I think i need some logic and knowledge into it. Thank you again Jason.
@Switch - wow. Thx for contribution. Good drawings make a good thread too Seeing your hatching makes me think twice about placing a line on the paper. I'll sharpen my pencils!
Sorry - no crits!
Jason: I have been drawing for about 3 1/2 weeks and I am having a hard time with exactly what you were describing to Oblio. I feel the constant urge to push harder with my pencil. And I can't figure out how to crosshatch and achieve a subtle transition between the darks and the lights. Is there anything you could suggest that would help, books, other art, etc...? Thanks for caring about us newbies in here too! I look at your dark elf tutorial almost every day. Not because I think I am capable of painting it but just because I love that image so much hehe.
These are some I posted before.
This is an apple I did in painter 7.
I cheated on this self portrait...I used a high contrast picture of me as a sort of tracing paper in photoshop to see the values but it helped me learn so that was good.
I drew my hand on the train with a ball point pen.
Last edited by MindCandyMan; October 10th, 2002 at 09:01 AM.
Switch those are totally awesome. Wow you have a real control over your strokes...is there any advice you can give to me to help me control my pencil stroke better...I am having a hard time...I would greatly appreciate it!
sorry for posting so late :-) oblio's first post with his studies seems a bit desperate, like: come on! plz post! :-)
just kidding :cool:
i'm still a litle busy with school, so i don't have the time to draw as much as i would want to, but here goes:
i tried to draw 2 skulls from another drawn reference, so i did not learn anything in terms of how do i draw something... i did learn how a skull looks, so thats also good i s'pose...
when i get the money around i'll see if i can find a good plastic skull somewhere :cool:
and the front:
and the muscles of the face:
this one didnt really work out well, i'm going to do a lot more of them - face-muscle-studies :-)
okiee, crits...if i'm allowed to give them, since i'm not very good myself
-mindcandy... i love those squirrels and the apple good coloring on it! i wish i tried as much coloring as you did :-) where the hell do you find the time to practice so much! very good!
the tree is a bit off-perspective, that plane at which they saw it looks like it stands upright. also if you are painting nature-things ( ) try to find an easy to draw texture to slap on the outlines...i'm not really clear on this, right? well if you can find a litle book by Felix Lorenzo, called "drawing nature" he will explain it there.
as for the portrait, it looks very good if you just started drawing 3 weeks ago! try to have a bit better look at anatomy and proportion, the right ear seems to be falling of your head
as for books, i can recommend drawing the heads and hands by andrew loomis (freely available at fineart.sk ).
I think i should have kept the white and the black only for accents, right? And.. no hatching. I mean.. it's like Iíve inserted new values.
If this is wrong.. i'll do others (Iíll do them anyway).
Anyway.. today was one of the worst days of the year for me so.. my mind could have been in other places
Jason... which way?
I've sketched "some hand" at job:
These are about my first attempts to drawing hands (i've done another one very ugly before those)
Feedback time: :evilbat:
@coriat - desperate? Sure I was (anyway.. today paid back more then i can take) try pictures for reference - not drawings. This as a general rule (except for master copies)
Also get some softer pencils and work your contrast more. Try more outline drawings with a marker. You know...
@MindCandy - try to follow Jason's advice - B&W, 6 values! You need to work your form & Shape. Next SP try a low poly approach! Simplify the form in order to get a better volume & so. (argh - bad English)
Come on people - the day is young! Draw draw draw...
Last edited by Oblio; October 10th, 2002 at 06:54 PM.
@Oblio - great idea. As with the sp thread, I think I just jump in. As for your studies: Compared to your sp's your hand drawing is really... ehm, err, simple? You can certainly do better. The re-doing of your still-life isn't bad but you have observed your mistake yourself, doing that hatching which created another tone. Hope you don't mind my frankness.
@Jason - great to see professional advice here. Since you all are very busy, we learners have to say thank you for taking the time!
@Switch - good rendering of your hands. Hands are a great subject and I'll post some of mine in the future, too.
@MindCandyMan - nice to meet you here, too. The rendering of the apple is quite good. When applying what you know from drawing/painting there you can also apply to your self portraits. The tree trunk has a few good parts (the roots), but the sawn off top looks off. Watch out for the perspective and the shadow/light relation. The squirrels are nice. What did you use for reference? I did some squirrel sketches this summer, too, using a VCR and hitting the stop button when they showed a nice pose. This gave me 3 minutes for a fast sketch. I might post them later.
@coriat - welcome to the club. I'm also looking for a cheap but still anatomically correct skull. What one gets at the moment with Halloween appoaching are just sort of caricatures (at least here).
This is my light-dark study from yesterday, after reading Jason's advice from earlier in this thread.
I was trying more for perspective on this one than specifically looking like me. It's so hard to draw any part of the human form.
This next one was a perspective study that I did in response to a section in Loomis' drawing the head and hands...learned a lot.
Man I am having a lot of trouble with my self portraits. I am going to keep trying because it is frustrating me that I suck so much at them. Thanks for the constant tips on my self portraits Jester they are great!...they help a lot.
Jester - Man I love this study that you did! Those pumpkins and gourds (spelling?) are really good. I especially like the rendering on the back left one (the biggest one). That one looks really good. Great job man! Keep posting your stuff. As far as the reference for the squirrels...I used a picture out of a drawing book. I drew those like 2 weeks ago. That thing with the vcr sounds fun hehe.
Oblio - If that's your worst night this year then you are doing good. The first hand is really good. I thought that was captured really well. Maybe go a little bit lighter with your tones but great job! I am gonna try that "6 tone" study tonight. I will set some stuff on my desk and paint it and see how it comes out.
Coriat - Good job with the skull. That's a good study...I am gonna have to get one for myself...a skull to draw that is...I really like the profile one. I think that one is the best of the three. Thanks for the heads up on the books and such I downloaded drawing heads and hands...looks great. I will have to dive into that book! As far as finding time to practice...I work full time and am going to school three nights a week. Basically I have written off tv, video games, etc... because I want to be committed to getting better at art. So all my free time goes to that. My wife is also really supportive so that helps. She does so much for me to allow me to pursue my goals. She is awesome!
Last edited by MindCandyMan; October 11th, 2002 at 09:44 AM.
haven't got a working scanner here, but i'll post up some stuff i did for drawing class (mostly charcoal, and recently conte+charcoal)... oblio, for getting value practise, try charcoals... grab yourself some vine charcoal, and some compressed charcoal for the ultra darks... one thing i've learned to love about charcoal (as opposed to pencil) is the comparative speed with which you can build up your areas of dark, especially when working with large formats...
another thing to try is to grab yourself some white conte crayon and some grey paper, and use the white in conjunction with vine and compressed charcoal... both methods, remember to make yourself a value chart... the usefulness is immeaasurable...
i'll post up some stuff once i get my hands on a scanner and digital camera (most of the charcoal pieces are pretty large, anywhere from 14"x17" to 18"x24"
I guess it will work easyer if we do all the same thing due a week or so (depending on how anyone feels)
I'll say let's go with Jason (since i've always been following his word as much as I could ) and do 6 value sketches.
Now.. I hate to post the same pic. 2 times on the forum but today i've had some.. troubles and felt like doing a SP.
Anyway it's small gif.
my left hand + mirror + non-existing drawing skills = ...?
I did some hands (it's supposed to be hands anyway) today... here is1 of the 3 pages i did...i'm trying to conserve my web -space as i only have 10 Mb at my (my dad's) current server (he has the other 15 ) does anyone know a good free server with some space? even 5 Mb will do ...?
the lower hand looks pretty good (i think) only the thumb looks weird (yes, foreshortening IS a crime! ).
mindcandy: that last sp is looking a lot better then the others you've posted before that (pretty logical know i think of it ). You're getting better, fast! If you can keep it up, you'll be good in no time, while i'm still struggling in my own non-existing-newb level...
Those loomis heads are also going the good way... try to pay more attention to the construction-lines..some features look misplaced... and try to stick with outlines ... shading is explained at page 50 of his book or something
ob: good study...you sure know where to place shades on the head. nice! and i don't have a marker..i'll go buy a good one sometime this week... but i don't really need one, because i have no eraser anymore
bM_ : welcome, nice job on the hand, i don't really know what those last 2 pictures are to be....i fly with a smoke i suppose...?
try to only post LIFE-drawings here:chug:
be back soon, y'all..
oh yeah: candy... you're my new inspiration together with ob and andrew...
the amount of time and dedication you and oblio show to drawing and painting is :eek:-inspiring...and android is just really good :cool:
Thankyou, I'll read that explanation a few times so it sinks in. I need diagrams for that sort of thing.
I've always had a naturally steady hand but i'll share my thoughts on this:
I think good lines and strokes has a lot to do with confidence.
Sometimes I'll just lightly scribble before I do a picture just to loosen up. I think your whole arm has to be relaxed.
Don't grip the pencil too hard and as you draw a line. Don't watch the led of the pencil as it creates the line. Dont stick your face right up to the pencil, try to take in the whole section of picture as you draw.
If you can't get line right the first time then build it up slowly. (I do that a lot).
When hatching the direction of your strokes can be very important. Look at the tiny lines of skin on your hand. See the direction they go and how they wrap around the form. Imitate that.
I can't draw a straight line very well but it doesn't matter they don't exist anyway apparently. Thats what rulers and computers are for.
that's all i can think of for now.
--- I'll try out the 6 tone exercise. Let's try to work on the same thing like Oblio said to. We'll learn more.
I just wanted to add this in addition to what Jason said.
There are different keys, high and low and variations on each, which a picture can have. What determines keys are value groupings. Not so much the location of values next to each other (although it does come into play) but the amounts of each in a piece. Sometimes you don't go all the way to white or to black for that matter. Perhaps you start low on the value scale and only venture half way up, but still working with your six values. You will see that you can drastically change the feel of a painting or drawing by changing the proportions of values to each other.
Look at black and white photography magazines or books and try to identify the various value groupings and how they make you feel. Then try these in your work.
when working from life you have a ready-made model in front of you dictating the value proportions but you can always take some liberties to push in one direction or another. When you are drawing for your concepts or just for yourself, you are the initial dictator of the key. Think about what you want people to get from your work and what values will best communicate that feeling.
The image I attached is just some of the groupings I came up with.
Thank you Jon... I just had a revelation after reading your reply.
You can't imagine how much you help. I hope to prove it tonight.
@switch - i guess that blending them after you're done is ok. Same with the hatching - if done after the 6 values are in the "final" place. Blending and hatch creates intermediary values - Iíve kept them sharp in order for Jason or Jon or any other eye to see if I am doing it right or wrong.
Wow Jon thanks so much for posting that. I am gonna try that out tonight. That's really awesome. Wow...this is the greatest. We are getting lessons from Jon Foster. I love it. Thanks again...I will put this into practice tonight. This is so awesome...(ok maybe I am overreacting) but it is just awesome to be reading through spectrum last night and drooling over jon's work and then to come in this morning and read a post of his. That is cool.
Switch: Those look amazing. Wow...awesome work. I think I am gonna take a break from portraits/self portraits (since I can't even draw a cube, sphere, etc....right. I can't wait to try this stuff out tonight.
Here are some images from the weekend guys. I think I am going to do what you are doing Oblio...I am not going to mix tones at all. I am just gonna use the straight values...that's a good idea.
These next three were really quick pastel studies...like 2 - 3 minutes each...the last one is not of me but I just was having fun drawing a nameless man.
here goes another exercise. I've tried to put more logic into it and use my eye only as a guide. so.. i've tried to exagerate the values to this point:
Made with lights on:
Made with lights off
I'm not too happy with those. I'll put more work on this thing! Thx again Jason and Jon. You are helping me doing steps - otherwis I would have been wondering through lines forever (do I make any sense?)
MindCandy - work your form - you need more discipline into that. Work on planes. Try to loose that hairy style...
You asked how i start - now i'm just placing splashes of values working with a big brush but at first i was starting with the eyes - a la Andrew. It's a good way to start your SP's.
Also work more on simple shapes - cubes, cilinders straight and in perspective. It helps a lot in nderstanding form.
Ok... I remind you who want to learn from the bes is welcome here too! :chug:
Ha! Mindcandyman you make me blush! The truth is that writing these things down for you helps me as well. And sometimes i feel like i need all the help in the world. And all of you, ALL OF YOU, contribute something for me and everyone on this site.
Oblio, wonderful! The only thing that comes close to your insuppressible need to learn is your incredible ability TO learn!
Switch, they make me calm too, and i need that right now. But beyond the calm, nice job on the painting. I am now a little embarrassed by my spheres.
If or when i ever have any new insight i will most definitely share.
I tried out some of the stuff you suggested Jon...I tried it out using spheres so I could have a point of reference with the ones you posted. Everyone please please criticize me...I want to get better. Oblio...I love that you tell me the truth. Keep doing that...if it stinks...tell me...I appreciate the tact and politeness you show when you do it as well.
Here are the spheres with different light scenarios:
Here is my newest self portrait...I was trying to work on proportions more because that is my major downfall for sure.
Jon: Is there a good way to map out the face in order to get good proportions...I have been drawing for about 4 weeks and am finding that I have been making the same proportion mistakes for like a week and a 1/2...I don't want to form a bad habit...thanks for all your help.
Last edited by MindCandyMan; October 15th, 2002 at 12:03 AM.