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December 3rd, 2007 #1
Spartan Camp #22 - 50 gestures + Optional Study of an action pose: Gymnastics
The aim is to produce 50 gestures by Sunday the 9th of November.
The gestures can be of anything, human, animal, cavorting capybaras....and can be in any media, digital or traditional is fine.
In addition to this, participants can choose to do an action pose or poses of Gymnastics, in any media. Black and White or Colour is fine.
For more info on Gymnastics please visit the Wikipedia page below.
Come on soldiers! Flex those muscles!!
PS...critting each other is highly encouraged!! Let's help each other get better!
HALL OF FAME - SPARTAN CAMP #21
Hide this ad by registering as a memberDecember 4th, 2007 #2Registered User
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This might be explained somewhere, but I can't find Spartan Camp #1, so I thought I'd ask here: what are the requirements for participating in this?
Once I would've considered myself sort of talented, but too much time with too little practice means I'm not very good, and I didn't do #1-#21, since I've only just (re)discovered ConceptArt.org.
On the other hand, I'd like to become better, and something to make me draw would help, so I'd like to participate if the Camp is open to anyone.
December 5th, 2007 #3
We would be glad to have you join us. The requirements are basically just what is in the first post. That and I don't believe you can use old drawings, all should be from the week period. Other than that run with it.
December 5th, 2007 #4
December 7th, 2007 #5
Phew, here are mine
I've still got a few problems to iron out - The main ones are foreshortening, differing poses, fleshing out the figure and adding more poses to my repertoire.
I'm still curious as to how you guys do it. I can do construction and straight-away anatomy (a little bit) out of the blue, but I can't do it with gesture. How would I go about practicing and being able to do it?
December 7th, 2007 #6
RabbiSatan - good stuff. Basically just do the stick figures as a blue print and try to make a character out of that. use help lines like the "S" curve for the spine and thew shoulders and hips then construct you character from that. I know it's difficult that's why it's smart to start from Ref and get a hang of that first and then do your own stuff.
Hey you still have a couple of days, try to do the Optional Study as well man.
December 7th, 2007 #7
Thanks for the advice Mike, I'll start to use posemaniacs more (I used it for some of the poses already, but quite a few were from imagination - which is why I mentioned that I need to add more poses to my repertoire).
Anyway, here are 4 poses from imagination - I made some alterations to the poses to fit them on the page, but I think they work. I did these in a very rough, sketchy, expressive manner to try to capture the "gesture" of the pose, and in the style of other gesture drawings, which look like scribbles with certain graces to them.
December 7th, 2007 #8
Rabbi You have a good start going here. Mike basically summed the process up. You might try drawing out the skeleton (like you have) and then next to it draw the figure fleshed, or on top of it if you like.
I think you should consider some anatomy studies and try to work on your line quality. The gymnast one seems to loose all of its form and weight in the scribbles. If it is hard to break the habit you can try letting yourself scribble when you are laying down the foundation, but when cleaning up try to keep the lines as long as the form and shape of the body will allow.
Alrighty, this is a little different from last week. I have a few posemaniac (30 and 15 seconds for pen) gestures (about half), and some Bridgman figures. The Bridgman ones are a little longer than usual about 5 minutes each for the larger ones. I have been trying to clean up my lines and grab the forms quickly.
I may not be able to post the optional till Monday (I use a scanner at my work). If my wife remembers to bring home our digital camera I'll have something tomorrow
December 7th, 2007 #9
Heya Euthyphro, thanks for the advice
I'm curious as to how you do your drawings - do you draw the anatomy and form without construction lines? Or do you use them and then erase them?
Thanks for the advice about the hairy/chicken scratch lines, I'll try to improve my line quality.
Ok, sorry, I should make some things more clear - the picture with the "10?" images - do you do that from observation or from imagination? If from imagination, how do you do it? With construction lines and then erase them? Or do you draw the anatomy straight away without any placement aids? And if you do that, how do you do so? I'm trying to do it now, and I'm having some success, but I'm finding it hard to do without any construction lines.
Last edited by Maledict; December 8th, 2007 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Addition
December 9th, 2007 #10
RabbiSatan; Good to have you on board! Nice job on constructing those bodies. Also like to see that you're working with different angles and approaches. You're really trying to tackle what you described as your weak points. I'd still try to smoothen out your lines a little, in the optional study mainly. I don't think the many short scribbles will help you much.
About the poses in general: Apart from just trying to imagine a pose, you could also just stand up and try a random pose yourself. I often use it, it can help a lot on getting some ideas. And remember you can just check on yourself for proportions and such... Also, you can plan out a pose step by step. For example; torso turned to the left, head pointing up, thighs turned, etc. Start off with big blocks, like you did, and just position them.
Euthyphro; Again, very impressed by the ultra-fast posemaniacs. Something I should learn myself. Nice Bridgman studies. I've bought the book last week, and I'm practicing also. I'm not too far in yet, but it seems an amazing technique. I'm feeling you've lost the proportions a little in some of them though. Could be that you're starting off in one point and then following the figure around, rather than starting off with a general sketch of the whole figure? Or perhaps, as some of the figures seem a little large on the upside, either your paper or the Bridgman book is tilted a little. As a result, you draw the upper body bigger than the rest since its further away. Sometimes have some problems with that myself....
Anyways, not sure whats the case. It's only in the right Bridgman scan, and only for a few poses.
Hope that helped in any way. Just some thoughts.
50 from imagination, optional with loads of ref. Pretty hard to get some good ref, people often seem strangely disjointed when a picture is taken during gymnastics.
Last edited by Anthis; December 9th, 2007 at 06:53 PM. Reason: working links..
December 9th, 2007 #11
Hey guys, I'm back.
RabbiSatan: Hey dude. The box figure gestures are nice.
Try to mix em' up with some looser drawings.
The next four poses are structurally pretty good, but the lines are scratchy and does not help to suggest a flowing action. Aim to pull your lines longer, don't worry if they aren't accurate, you can go over the lines, but you want them to be smooth and flowing.
Euthyphro: Nice gestures. I like your smooth lines.
Bridgeman studies are great.
Anthis: Great show of dedication by doing this every week.
Your poses and anatomy are definitely getting more solid.
Careful with the shading, it doesn't look as well though out as everything else.
Here are mine for this week.
45sec - 1min Posemaniac
A page of own gestures
A few gymnastics + hand gestures
December 10th, 2007 #12
Nice stuff you guys.
HunterKiller_ - nice to see you back man. hope we'll see more of you in the future
RabbiSatan - good start, watch the scribbly lines like the others said. i'm having some problems with that too but watch out with those.
Ok here are my 50 and the Optional study. I've been slacking out a bit lately since i'm working on a project here and i'm totally noticing that i'm gettng very rusty here, so i'm gonna make sure that will not happen again.
December 10th, 2007 #13
Wow! Great turn out this week...
Rabbi On construction... Depending on what I am drawing and the time constrains I may or may not use construction lines. Everything from pose maniacs for this week (the first three pages) were either 15 or 30 second poses. When the time is so short it is basically a mind sprint to grab the biggest and most important shapes so I generally don't have time for construction lines. Consequently the end product on most of these don't look to far off from what the initial construction would like in a larger gesture.
On a longer gesture or a finished piece I almost always use construction lines. You just have to remember that the big point for construction lines is to get the form correct in 3d space. So find a few methods that you like and work them up (that actual is my purpose with the quick studies). I try to move around where I start from and how I define the shapes. If you just play around with the studies you'll find lines that work for you and the ones that don't. My biggest problem is that I get lazy and half the time I just leave them in.
OK this is a bit long winded so I'll just show you. At the end there is a quick gesture I did with my mouse. The blue are just rough lines like what I would normally lay in, the red is the fleshing. Hope this helps.
Anthis You have an amazing eye! You are dead on with my Bridgman studies. The first page I really took my time, roughed them out and then went back. The second I was getting lazy and just exactly as you said started at one point and went around... In general I need to work on keeping my proportions in porportion.
On your gestures... First page, first one from the left in the second row, (she's jumping or skipping?) I am a little uncertain about the direction the head is facing but I love the pose.
First two top left on the third page really dig the poses but there seems to be something a little wanky about them. It might be the tilt of the rib cage I'm not sure, maybe you'll know what I mean.
Overall all I love the way you capture the wieght and movement on all of these; just exactly what gestures should do.
HunterKiller Looks like you have two very distinct methods for these. The 45 sec ones are very nice, loose and fluid; and the forms are very nice, they look natural. Overall they are a little rough (i know i know... just 45 seconds ) The box construction is really nice and clean but the forms feels a little bit stiff. Somewhere between the two with the same speed and cleaner finish and these would be spot on.
Overall really nice, I'll have to drop in on your sketchbook. ( I really dig the top hand on the left side of the last one.)
EDIT: Mike Rusty! HA! You must have posted in the hours I have had this on my screen waiting for a break a work You've got a whole lot of sexy going on there. 2nd and 3rd on the 2nd row, first one on the fifth row...so nice.
Alright and finally here are some quick sketches for the optional study... I know this is posted late but I needed the scanner at work this morning.
Last edited by Euthyphro; December 10th, 2007 at 11:38 AM.
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December 11th, 2007 #14
HunterKiller_; Heya! welcome back. ;P
Thanks, well it can be a pain sometimes, but having a deadline keeps me from slacking on the job. You're right about those shadings, they're not too good. Went for just a linedrawing at first, then decided to add some shadows, called it quits, and left the drawing somewhere in between.
Good posemaniac stuff. Loose, but accurate. Clean lines, and mostly easy to read. Think you've been improving during your absence.. The first ones on the 3rd scan seem a bit messier, are those done in pen? or just sharpened your pencil? Nice job on making crazy poses look natural, @ the athletics study.
MeTaL-Mike; Some of them seem changed and edited a few times in the process, but you don't seem rusty apart from that. Some good stylish linework. Like those straight lines you've used. Think those kneeling girls are the best I've seen in a while. Watch out for long legs though.
Euthyphro; Thanks! I usually take my time to check others' entries, plus I'm also doing Bridgman myself at the moment
About that first pose; true, remember getting a little too exited there, went overboard ;[. About the other two; Yea.. its probably the long area between the thighs and the chest again. The pit I keep falling in..
December 12th, 2007 #15
Euthyphro - Thanks man, your optional stuff's good man. keep it up dude
Anthis - Yeah i noticed some too long legs too actually. specially the chick spreading her legs in row 4. i'll work on that.
Nice stuff all. i see this is going in the right direction again That's very good. See yah all at the next one.