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  1. #256
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    Thanks for the encouragement guys. Hopefully you'll be pleased to know I'm planning to work through the site this year, adding some new images and trying to improve the text. I've recently finished revising the two introductory pages:

    http://www.huevaluechroma.com/011.php
    http://www.huevaluechroma.com/012.php
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  4. #257
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    Question

    Thanks again for your fantastic website its excellent!!!!!!!!!!!

    Q.1.What is the logic of a painter "muting" a colour by mixing it with its complementry instead of GRY especially if its NOT to change hue i.e. mixing YEL and BLU for GRN but rather to desaturate it?
    Q.2.Putting aside overly literal abberation of actual pigment and generalising theoretically is it true that you could arrive at a reasonable approximation of say yellow/blue mixed red/violet just by looking for the appropriate hue (if the colour wheel was "blended infinitely")and adding a GRY?

    P.S.I think there is a yellow/orange light from the blue glass stone because the light entering the stone is refracted in internal dispersal therefore the concentrated beam of light that eventually emerges is of a different wavelength and that also means colour difference.But I might be wrong.

  5. #258
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    C.M.

    Glad you like the site. I'm not sure if this answers your first question, but it is possible to find or mix a pigment-mixing complementary for any coloured paint that will neutralize it, but this sometimes will not be the same colour as the additive complementary. For a yellow, for example it will be not blue but a particular violet paint or paint mixture.

    I'm afraid I can't even guess what you mean by your second question, so for me to answer it you'll need to rephrase it completely.

  6. #259
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    Thumbs up

    Wonderful & helpful info.
    Thank you very much
    Michelle Elle.

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  7. #260
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    hello briggsy
    does this site precise? as you give me the one before?
    http://graphics.stanford.edu/courses...lormixing.html

  8. #261
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    Overall the applets and explanations on that site are very good, but just on that last page you linked to there are a couple of things that could be confusing to students. I don't think it is stressed enough that all actual yellow, cyan amd magenta pigments are of the second, "broad C,M,Y" type, and I doubt that the narrower, essentially theoretical CMY colours in the first applet would be as bright as they are shown. (In fact the displayed colours are definitely not accurate, because when I add light from the red and orange parts of the spectrum to the narrow "yellow" spectrum, the displayed colour gets darker). Also in the summing up at the end, while it is correct to say that the additive/subtractive primaries "don't need to be" R,G,B/C,M,Y respectively, it is potentially misleading not to emphasize that those primaries do give the maximum gamut.

  9. #262
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    I'd like some help to see if a diagram I'm working on is looking right for most observers/monitors.

    Please click on the link and observe each of the two finely-lined squares at the bottom of the diagram from a distance of a couple of metres or so, so that the vertical lines are no longer visible. Please check that your browser is set to 100% zoom, and very importantly, position yourself so that your line of sight to the square you are looking at is at exactly 90 degrees to the screen. If your browser resizes the diagram, please click on it to return it to full size. Do the squares look grey or coloured?

    http://www.huevaluechroma.com/pics/4.3.3.jpg

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  11. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by briggsy@ashtons View Post
    I Do the squares look grey or coloured?

    http://www.huevaluechroma.com/pics/4.3.3.jpg
    Square (A) looks colored (light purple) Square (B) looks grey to me.
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  13. #264
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    Thanks first and foremost for your website, it was extremely informative and has helped me no end in my artistic growth. I am very much grateful.

    I have this idea, I want to desaturate the pure (100% saturation) colours in order to find out their values in black and white as a reminder.

    Would this be possible using the desaturate or greyscale function in ps? Would it be inaccurate or misleading?

  14. #265
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    You're very welcome, and thanks for asking your questions here, Care.

    The answer to your first question is that you can either use the desaturate command in Lab mode (not RGB mode), or convert to greyscale mode, among other methods that achieve the exact same result, i.e. conversion of each colour to a grey of the same "L".

    My answer to your second question is that it seems this conversion may sometimes be somewhat inaccurate or misleading for some colours (mainly high saturation blues), but there may not be any better general solution. Here's why:

    In the attachment each coloured square is on a background of a grey of the same value according to these methods.

    The red square may look at first glance to be lighter than the grey background, but if I squint I can see that it is actually similar, or at least much more similar in value than it first seems. So I think that this is probably just an example of the impression of extra lightness that strong colours seem to possess, which been called "chromatic luminance" or the Helmholtz–Kohlrausch effect.

    However, no matter how much I squint, the blue square still looks lighter to me than the grey surround, so I'd have to say that it actually is lighter. A possible explanation is that the blue "phosphor" of my laptop is less violet/less saturated than that assumed for the conversion, which would make pure blue (B255) relatively bright on my screen, and also pure yellow (white minus blue) a little less bright. So maybe there's no conversion that will be perfectly accurate for all monitors.

    If anyone has any ideas please comment!

    A separate issue is that on most laptops the relative values of the colours and the greys change alarmingly with viewing angle; my observations were made looking flat on to the screen.
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    Last edited by briggsy@ashtons; December 6th, 2012 at 07:52 PM.

  15. #266
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    thanks briggs you always come through, i really enjoy how u manage to verbalize things that i suppose we must unconsciously recognize, everytime you explain something i get that aaaa now it makes sense moment...

    like i feared, there might not be an all encompassing way to accurately determine this. but its no big deal. i guess its just a case of learning the exceptions to the rule etc

  16. #267
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    This year my regular classes are (so far) all on late afternoons, evenings and weekends, which means I'll be available to run a few 5-day colour workshops more or less on demand at my studio in Sydney. The focus can be either on theory, or on putting the theory into practice using traditional or digital media. If anyone is interested please email me to discuss suitable dates.

    Here's a still life demo from the first one last week.
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  17. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by briggsy@ashtons View Post
    In the attachment each coloured square is on a background of a grey of the same value according to these methods.

    The red square may look at first glance to be lighter than the grey background, but if I squint I can see that it is actually similar, or at least much more similar in value than it first seems. So I think that this is probably just an example of the impression of extra lightness that strong colours seem to possess, which been called "chromatic luminance" or the Helmholtz–Kohlrausch effect.

    However, no matter how much I squint, the blue square still looks lighter to me than the grey surround, so I'd have to say that it actually is lighter. A possible explanation is that the blue "phosphor" of my laptop is less violet/less saturated than that assumed for the conversion, which would make pure blue (B255) relatively bright on my screen, and also pure yellow (white minus blue) a little less bright. So maybe there's no conversion that will be perfectly accurate for all monitors.
    The value of that blue looks pretty good to me when I squint (at least equivalent to the red in terms of matching the ground), so I'd say your suspicion about the phosphors is probably right.

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  19. #269
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    Not sure if this is appropriate place to say it, but I appreciate the feedback on my SB and all the help you've given this community towards questions on color and light, sir.

  20. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    The value of that blue looks pretty good to me when I squint (at least equivalent to the red in terms of matching the ground), so I'd say your suspicion about the phosphors is probably right.
    Just a followup to that, I'm checking this thread today from a school computer, and the blue looks fine, but the red is appreciably darker than its corresponding gray.

    Tristan Elwell
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