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  1. #1
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    Don't Work for Free!!

    Saw this somewhere -- forget where - he was talking about screenwriting in Hollywood, but it applies to artists, too.

    Warning:: STRONG language.


    Harlan Ellison Interview


    (I don't know how to embed, if someone sees this and knows how lemme know ok? thanks )
    Last edited by Elwell; November 24th, 2007 at 02:36 PM.
    “It is enough that we set out to mold the motley stuff of life into some form of our own choosing; when we do, the performance is itself the wage.”
    -Learned Hand

    "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as dead; his eyes are closed." ~Albert Einstein



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  4. #2
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    Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!

    I couldn't agree with him more and he couldn't be more accurate if he was a fricken' laser sited sniper scope. This should be a mantra for everyone in the creative field. From photographers to penicllers to designers and everyone else.

    With the insane profits that the major studios make and they want writers and every other creative to work for free or cheap. Sod that.

    mambo

  5. #3
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    Yesss


    "YOU go to the store motherfucker! Or Ill burn your house to the ground!"

    This is going all over my freelance mates facebook pages.
    Last edited by timpaatkins; November 24th, 2007 at 02:52 PM.
    [url=http://galleryonefone.blogspot.com[/url] This would be my gallery in Sweden

    This would be my Pleine Air blog

  6. #4
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    Man, when I was sixteen I wanted to BE Harlan when I grew up.

    (P.S. I embedded the clip for you, you can go to Edit or Quote to see the code.)
    Last edited by Elwell; November 24th, 2007 at 02:38 PM.

    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron

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  8. #5
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    Hhaa 2:55, informative and funny!

  9. #6
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    damn right! thanks for the video!

  10. #7
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    Hell yeah! Thanks Nerahla!

    This should be stickied and everyone should be forced to watch it over and over via eyes taped open!

  11. #8
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    OMG, that shit was funny. Thats how angry I get when I tell kids they have to pay me for a portrait. Pay me Motherfucker.

  12. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micaiah Nelson View Post
    Thats how angry I get when I tell kids they have to pay me for a portrait. Pay me Motherfucker....
    "...or ill kill your parents!"
    [url=http://galleryonefone.blogspot.com[/url] This would be my gallery in Sweden

    This would be my Pleine Air blog

  13. #10
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    that was friggin awsome
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    "it's much easier to scale up from simplicity than to scale back from complexity"

  14. #11
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    Thats a valuable lesson, never undergo your career/job/skills no matter what

    SEMPER FI

  15. #12
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    A-fuckin-men to that.

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  17. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by timpaatkins View Post
    Yesss


    "YOU go to the store motherfucker! Or Ill burn your house to the ground!"

    This is going all over my freelance mates facebook pages.
    Haha..that was the best quote.

  18. #14
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    My biggest frustration with freelance work is the sheer magnitude of employers who expect me to work for rates which drop below minimum wage. It is discouraging because these employers inevitably find some kid to take the job instead. It has become so ingrained that trying to explain how long the work takes comes off as actually trying to rip THEM off.

    The internet is poisonous to us.
    My work: [link]

  19. #15
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    Worded perfectly.. I think every artist on this forum has that exact frame of mind and if not you should....

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    Izi

  21. #16
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    I wonder if he was paid for this interveiw


    i'm guessing yes.

    Good stuff.

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  23. #17
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    Excellent. Would make a good sticky, but I wonder if it'll be taken off Youtube, given that people are watching it for free now.

  24. #18
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  25. #19
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    Amen to that !
    A lot of clients want work for silly low rates nowdays, I always say - don't undervalue yourself, it's actually worse to take a job for starvation fees ...
    Maybe they think it's freelance ^^
    Freelance Game Art
    www.arielchai.com

  26. #20
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    i'm glad to see some action taken against this epidemic.
    this sort of thing really bothers me and makes me worried about my future career as an artist. too many creative minds don't get what they deserve.

  27. #21
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    Pseudocognition is offline The crazy chick who watches you while you sleep. You drool, ya know.
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    A very important lesson. Thanks for posting!

  28. #22
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    Two words: Bad. Ass.

  29. #23
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    That's so frigging true... if I had a penny for every time I've had to call up a magazine and tell them to send me a copy of the mag I've done illustrations for... I'd have a fair bunch of pennies...

    Seriously, that crap at least should be frigging OBVIOUS. Send the artist a copy of his work! JEEZ!

    At least I've got the sense to get paid (nowadays)...
    - Current project <- Crit away!
    - The Whyatt Sketchbook Any tips appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger
    sometimes your first thought is always right

  30. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whyatt Thrash View Post
    That's so frigging true... if I had a penny for every time I've had to call up a magazine and tell them to send me a copy of the mag I've done illustrations for... I'd have a fair bunch of pennies...

    Seriously, that crap at least should be frigging OBVIOUS. Send the artist a copy of his work! JEEZ!

    At least I've got the sense to get paid (nowadays)...
    Fear not... it's not any different for the vast majority of photographers.
    I've always suspected the first thing people think when they wake up in the morning can fall into one of two categories:

    A) how can I screw my photographer?

    B) how can I screw my illustrator?

    :p

    Of course there are the types of clients that don't wake up on that side of the bed... but jeebus some months they seem few and far between.

    mambo

  31. #25
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    Harlan Ellison is so right.

  32. #26
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    Ahahahaha!
    This guy wins the prize.

    On the topic, though. This guy is a professional of course, and expects to be paid at such a rate.
    What about amateurs and beginners? People who just want to get a foot in the doorway, and I'm not talking full time projects for free, more like one off things, a poster or whatever.

  33. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterKiller_ View Post
    Ahahahaha!
    This guy wins the prize.

    On the topic, though. This guy is a professional of course, and expects to be paid at such a rate.
    What about amateurs and beginners? People who just want to get a foot in the doorway, and I'm not talking full time projects for free, more like one off things, a poster or whatever.
    I'd say it's all about confidence and endurance. When you're just starting out, like he said, you're glad just to get a job and you're not confident enough in your ability to expect to really get paid for your work. After five jobs, your confidence in your ability will have increased when you see that you actually CAN get paid for your work, so you increase your salary more to what you think you're worth. After 50 jobs, you're frigging tired of working for peanuts, and you don't fucking care if the guy offering you the job has the money to pay you or not.

    Your ability after fifty jobs might be basically the same, just slightly over the one you had when you started working, but due to your increse in confidence and decrease in endurance of minimum-wage jobs, you start to ask for exactly what you're worth. And when you ask for that amount with real confidence, like "This is what I take, you want my work, the way I do it? Then that's the price. Non-fucking-negotiable." Many employers will just shut the fuck up and pay you.

    And that's the goddamn truth.
    - Current project <- Crit away!
    - The Whyatt Sketchbook Any tips appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger
    sometimes your first thought is always right

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  35. #28
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    Fat kid: What you're saying is the way it SHOULD be done. What I explained is how it's REALLY done. I don't know a single entrepreneur that hasn't passed for that exact same process. I'm not saying beginner artists shouldn't ask for their rightful pay, I'm just explaining the process of how you most commonly get to the point where you start to get paid. Like I said, the difference in quality of the end product from zero pay to decent pay to good pay is ofter miniscule. The problem is to have the balls to ask for it, when you feel you're scamming someone cause you lack confidence...

    We can talk all we want about ideals, but it's almost completely certain everybody's gonna go through a process more or less similar to what I explained. Would be great if it didn't, but... You know... It's easy to be wise after the fact.

    And hard to tell a rookie without confidence to have it. You need to earn it. And without it, you don't get anywhere. That's why everybody starts out at rock bottom.

    In my experience.

    Your results may vary, and I hope they do. I just wanted to be one voice of honesty in this, as to WHY things are the way they are.
    - Current project <- Crit away!
    - The Whyatt Sketchbook Any tips appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger
    sometimes your first thought is always right

  36. #29
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    Harlan Ellison for teh WIN!

    That was a clip from a documentary about him called "Dreams with Sharp Teeth: A film about Harlan Ellison" You can watch the trailer here:
    http://www.creatvdiff.com/harlan_ellison.php

    I sooo have to see this movie!

  37. #30
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    Good advice!
    Sketchbook Support Group
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    ~Hope~

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