Clashing with Photography Teacher!
Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 32
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    79
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 13 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Angry Clashing with Photography Teacher!

    I'm in a photography class in school (I'm in my junior year) and I've had this teacher for 2 years (on/off). He's had my brother and really liked his work, but I'm not getting along with him AT ALL this year, now that I'm in "intermediate photo" which is supposed to be a bit more serious than the Intro class.

    Bgk info: I'm the "art student" of the school and drawing is my strength, especially b/c I've always pushed myself... I tend to be very harsh on myself because I know I have a very critical eye when viewing my work.

    This photo teacher KNOWS I can see things wrong aesthetically and he's singled me out on occaisons (alone) and we haven't ALWAYS disagreed. For instance, I'll take out a print and tell him it would look better to crop it "here" and he'd enthusiastically agree (bringing it up days on end afterwards) but sometimes he is VERY strange. Everybody else in the photo room (including him) has no drawing ability and I don't understand how, if you don't know how to draw, you have as much of a critical eye (an example are the other students, who don't see things wrong with their work or take "the easy way out" by picking one frame out of 3 or 4 rolls). I'm sure if I showed my photo teacher a self portrait I drew, he wouldn't be able to pick out the things that were "off" about it, or say what it needed. I'm not saying drawing ability translates into good photography, but when making certain DECISIONS in contact sheets, how can artists agree?? He oftentimes chooses for his students what they should print and makes his own marks when I feel like alot of times his decisions are poor and he's not "aesthetically attracted" to the same things I am. He's also a bit too polluted in his art books.

    He knows that I have a critical eye because of the things I point out (and I don't outwardly become irritated at him... I'm VERY quiet in class and I do take alot of sh*t... he probobly has no idea how infuritated I've become) and although he often compliments me in a way he can't to his other students because I'm a "true artist" (of course I'm eyerolling) "oh, your composition is great, you're an artist, you get this stuff" etc... but if he means this, than he should trust me! But he's too arrogant and controlling and very restrictive, and exclusively likes anything that is different (he always talks about how passionate he is, how insane he is) He's an elitist. He purposely chooses the "nonconforming" view to make him seem like a cooler person than he is... you know the kinds of people I'm talking about. Even if it's ugly, they feel like they need to make a statement and want others to think, "Well if he likes the UGLY one more, maybe I'm missing out on something".

    IF ARTISTS HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS (considering we're both "Artists" with a capital f*cking A) THAN WHY CAN'T I DISAGREE WITH HIS CHOICES -- HE ONLY CHOOSES WHAT HE LIKES BASED ON HIS OWN PERSONAL TASTES WHICH DIFFER FROM MINE. He calls one of my portraits of my "too-pretty" friend commercial, and he only likes "sad" portraits because they're the only ones he thinks "don't look like they were snapped with a cellphone". One of the advice he gave to his students was, while showing a book of Friedlander (who is known for taking "chaotic" pictures, which is just a fancy word for paying no attention to composition, focusing everything, and using fancy words to justify his art), he told his (over-egotistical) student:

    "Try emulating Friedlander over the weekend." -teacher
    "Haha yeah, I'll just like shoot a bunch of crap" -student
    "Yeah! Fill the frame with CRAP" -teacher
    [laughs] "Okay" -student

    My mouth is litterally open, the teacher sees me and then quickly says, "But compose the crap -- no but listen Jake -- make sure you compose the picture so it's not JUST crap" and the student keeps laughing like, "what is that supposed to mean?"

    This advice made me 1) completely paralyzed with shock -- is he SERIOUS? and 2) angry at his inability to give good advice -- obviously the student didn't GET it.

    More than angry, I'm frustrated. I'm sick of his arrogance and passive/agressive behavior ("you're an artist and you can see, but I've been doing this 20+ years and I'm right"). He tells me to find my own vision, when it's not clear to him that I already have because he's CONSTANTLY comparing his students with certian photographers and trying to lump them in groups rather than see them individually.... his only assignments are, "emulate this guy, emulate that guy" and I'm beggining to think emulating is just a fancy word for ripping-off something you don't understand rather than trying to carry out a similar photographic vision that has been done before. I not getting ANYTHING out of his class.

    I tried quitting his class when this was happening early on because I thought the class was really a waste of time (which it is), and he found out about it and thought the reason was because I was "uncomfortable" and "insecure" and this makes him more arrogant because he feels like although he's "just a photographer", he's just as good as any artist who SLAVES over technical skill in drawing, etc. because he's controlling one. Most students take the easy way out and blindly agree with him to get the grade, but I see something wrong and I don't... I mean, I just want to understand something, LEARN something (not about how to use a camera or how to copy a certain style, but to learn something about myself so that I can translate that into my own art and drawing/creating) . Someone in a recent thread on criticism said, "Your setting aside your own personal taste and trying to give the artist another perspective to help strengthen the piece." and my teacher is NOT doing this. He's UNABLE to set aside his own taste because he decides what is good or not, no questions asked.....

    I think he's so wrapped up on wanting to become an "artist" and being called an "artist" even though he can't draw (most photographers have to deal with this sh*t, I don't blame them) that when he sees me "insecure" and unable to take "good photos" he's seen before in his stupid art books, he feels better, more powerful, and uses this passive/agressive way of speech: "You're an artist, like me, but now you're in my domain and everything I say is right regardless of your critical eye and personal taste"

    SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP BEFORE I LOSE IT.... I have 2-3 months with this guy left and I want him to either respect me, accept my "voice", or at least have less decision in what I choose to print because he has to realize that even though we both have taste, our tastes do differ. Just because he's a teacher doesn't make him right. It shouldn't.

    My parents (dad architect, mom art teacher in the grammar school) tell me to keep quiet and not create problems in the school... my mom doesn't want to have to face a colleauge who's fighting with her daughter and my dad tells me that I should give in now and fight back later (he says that nobody will listen to me now because I'm still in high school and they won't take me seriously). What do you guys think? He DOES control my grade in the class... but something in me says that IF I DO SUBMIT and take the easy way out, I'm going to lose a part of myself and a part of my own independent voice.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In my own thoughts.
    Posts
    1,340
    Thanks
    433
    Thanked 551 Times in 248 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    They're teachers, what did you expect? The holy grail of knowledge?
    A long lost brother? A father figure?

    Some of them are retards, some of them are not.
    We ignore certain aspects, we don't with others and we move on.

    That's it.

    But I understand you needed to vent. Now, did it feel better?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    68
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I'll most likely be straight forward from the begining,is what I think.
    Works always in college for me.
    But then again this is your point of view...
    Sometimes people are 'cold' because something happened to them in the past. Who knows...

    Just consider this, do you absolutely need the grade for college or not? If not, just quit. Who cares about what other people think!
    What I learn in High School that seems to hold true for most countries is that...being expressive is a no-no. I hate that.

    And you get photography in high school?! AHH! You are soo lucky...My country does not have that...ARGH, I blame the government...In fact, our art class in high school are of elementary level or ask us to do based on the themes pick out and they hardly teach anything!

    AHHHH!!!

    *KABOOOM!!!*

    In this world set by God,
    Imagination is our magic...

    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...99#post1542899

    My Sketchbook above. (Way too long ago... been a busy college student)
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    403
    Thanks
    170
    Thanked 40 Times in 30 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    teachers are like that. i had a teacher who hated alphonse mucha (who i love) and thought egon schiele was the best thing since sliced bread. she told me i didnt work hard enough and so i started taking extra classes with her eventhough she was a bitch, cause she had more experience than i did. despite her having a bad attitude and a difference in taste i just had to deal.

    so just stick out the last few months...you'll be fine

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    403
    Thanks
    170
    Thanked 40 Times in 30 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    "I tried quitting his class when this was happening early on because I thought the class was really a waste of time (which it is), and he found out about it and thought the reason was because I was "uncomfortable" and "insecure" and this makes him more arrogant because he feels like although he's "just a photographer", he's just as good as any artist who SLAVES over technical skill in drawing, etc. because he's controlling one."


    no offense, but why does him being a photographer not make him an artist? forgive me if i'm misinterpreting your words...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    272
    Thanks
    85
    Thanked 22 Times in 10 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    To be honest,
    (and I think I'll regret it)

    I get the impression you haven't given this teacher a fair chance.

    There's a whole lot of assumption here. Assuming what your teacher thinks, your teacher's teaching strategies (implying a lack thereof) , we even get a pop-psych evaluation. Let's be fair now, you don't really know why he's doing these things, that's what made you so angry in the first place.

    Speaking of which, why are you so confused?
    Wondering why he chooses pieces that are so off compositionally, if it bothers you to the point of quitting the class - you should have asked him by now. If those critiques seem vague and opinionated, ask him to elaborate. You can still disagree, but the problem is, I don't see any indication in your writing that you tried to understand what he was saying to begin with.
    One of which is, I noticed when the student laughed off the teacher's composition comment, the first person you set to lay blame on was the Teacher. If that student - and you - don't ask "why?", how could your teacher possibly know you don't understand? And more importantly, you want to know more? Let's be realistic here, it's a high school art's class. Apathy is the standard. The uncaring masses drift in and out for easy credit with no real drive to take anything to heart. Silence is no way to let any teacher know about your burning desire to learn, least of all in such conditions.

    To list your teacher's arrogance as one his major faults, in the context of a rant that skirts dangerously close to being arrogant on at least three separate occasions, I have to wonder if this is less a clash of opinions and more a clash of egos.


    That's not to say I'm playing devil's advocate, there's a few things your teacher did that raises my eyebrow. Most of all, the thing you didn't appear to be all that upset about.
    You'd be surprised how often a student having a complaint about a teacher gets back to them, even when the student hasn't done anything more than muttered to their social circle. Standard procedure is to grin and bear it, confronting a student for something so minor as a student/teacher personality clash is a bad idea, made even worse by the way he handled it. Tsk, tsk.

    Last edited by Zilant; November 18th, 2007 at 07:38 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Zilant For This Useful Post:


  8. #7
    Zaxser is offline Steph Laberis Fanboy Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    518
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 114 Times in 65 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Chill out. That's my only advice. You're being whiny, insecure and overly emotional. Maybe your teachers acting that way too. But why do you give a shit? Seriously. Why?

    Do you Mentler?

    Booting up a new sketchbook.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Zaxser For This Useful Post:


  10. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    4,881
    Thanks
    286
    Thanked 1,437 Times in 259 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    You need to get over yourself. Drawing is not necessary to having a keenly good eye for what looks good. And if you try departing your highschool overinflated with yourself you are going to find that being on the bottom of the food chain in college and professionally is going to hurt. Lots.

    Your teacher does not need to “trust you”. Quite the opposite: it is his responsibility as a teacher to make you defend what you believe, so that you are forced to understand why you have reached your conclusions.

    Don’t “take shit”. Start practicing how to state your opinion so that you don’t keep them bottled up. Being silent and then exploding at people (or about people) is a very bad habit to be in – it’ll make you miserable in your job, later, or it will lose you your job. You need to be able to calmly give and take if you want to work with clients, art directors, and college professors. You need to learn to lose a battle so that you can win the war. In this case, winning the war is graduating.

    Get used to disagreeing with your teachers. You won’t survive college if you feel required to agree with every opinion your teachers have. Just figure out why they are wrong and you are right, and take that knowledge as your prize. That knowledge is worth its weight in gold. The art you produce, the grade you get, and your relationship with your teacher are all incidental.

    Your teacher is full of flaws. Yes – all teachers are full of flaws. Be grateful that you can see that! So many people can’t. Use that to sort out the good stuff he’s saying from the bad. Then disregard the bad. (Preferably without burning bridges.)

    A few more months is nothing at all. Hang in there!

    Last edited by Seedling; November 19th, 2007 at 08:04 AM. Reason: fixed a typo
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Seedling For This Useful Post:


  12. #9
    HunterKiller_'s Avatar
    HunterKiller_ is offline Registered User Level 15 Gladiator: Spartacus' Hoplomachi
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    3,763
    Thanks
    2,126
    Thanked 1,004 Times in 654 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Agree with what the last few posts.

    Tell you what I did. I enjoyed my high school art teacher, but that doesn't mean we didn't have our fair share of disagreements.
    He would tell me to do something this way - I would just do it my own way, and he was usually satisfied with the result anyway.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,907
    Thanks
    816
    Thanked 2,275 Times in 625 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    i went through a similar experience for three years of photography classes in college

    all i can say is that you're really limiting your own progression by willingly ignoring opportunities to learn. count your blessings man, youre taking a class in a subject you want to learn more about, and all youre doing is finding a way to make it suck for you. hell, my highschool didnt have an art curriculum.

    being angry and full of passion is great, but you're directing it at a guy who sounds like he's giving sound advice. why not put that energy into your work?

    be open to new forms of composition, formal relations, exposing, printing, developing, and maybe you'll learn a thing or two about a thing or two.

    ...and study those "good pictures" in "the stupid art books"
    they didn't become masters because of dumb luck.
    hey i know, you don't have to like all the work you see, but at least appreciate the devotion to a similar passion of photography.

    and remember:
    expose for the shadows, print for the highlights.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Gastonia, N.C.
    Posts
    187
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Forecast View Post
    I think he's so wrapped up on wanting to become an "artist" and being called an "artist" even though he can't draw (most photographers have to deal with this sh*t, I don't blame them) that when he sees me "insecure" and unable to take "good photos" he's seen before in his stupid art books, he feels better, more powerful, and uses this passive/aggressive way of speech: "You're an artist, like me, but now you're in my domain and everything I say is right regardless of your critical eye and personal taste"
    Did he actually say that? Or is that just how he seems?

    It very well could be you two are just never gonna connect. He likes things his way and you like things your way. Since hes a teacher hes always gonna feel his way is the right way. He could be right, he could be wrong, I don't know.

    I remember when going through high school(which I just got out of) I used to take Art classes and I mean a lot of them. My art teacher was a cool guy and all, but I felt he didn't know what he was talking about.

    Now that I am out of high school and I have discovered anatomy and the like, I realized he knew what he was talking about, but he did make a couple mistakes.

    1. Hes way or the highway. It was as simple as that. If he didn't like what you we're doing or wanted to do, you weren't allowed to do it.

    2. He never bothered to go into detail as to explain things. If I had problem drawing a hand he would tell me to go look an book, but never explained why I was doing it. Which in the end only made things worse.

    3. Partly my own fault. He got me believing that the way I drew and painted was the way I would do it for the rest of my life. At the time I thought that some people we're just born with the magic ability to draw. Now I know much better.

    I don't have a problem with his style of teaching, but I know if I'm a teacher and I come across one of my students who has a passion for art and would like to seek a career in it or pick it up as a major hobby. I would take them aside and set them down the wright path as best as I could.

    Helps us on our journey. Comments and critiques are welcome.

    Sketchgroup

    One Sketch

    .empyrean's. sketchbook

    DanTang's sketchbook

    Dmotym's sketchbook

    Nigh7shad3's sketchbook
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    786
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 307 Times in 132 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    the fact that this is a high school class and teacher should have been underscored from the very beginning, not squirreled away somewhere 3/4th's into your epic story. that way you could have spared a lot of people from reading all the tedious tedium.

    c'mon people get on the ball here!

    p.s. to be somewhat constructive... remember teachers are people too.

    Last edited by steve kim; November 19th, 2007 at 08:11 AM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  16. #13
    GoMegaX's Avatar
    GoMegaX is offline Product of American Teachers! Level 1 Gladiator: Andabatae
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    44
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    When I was in high school I had an 'art' teacher who I couldn't stand. I had her class a year before and things were fine. There seemed to be a mutual; respect there. The second time around however, something changed. I'm not sure why, but it did and I hated it.

    Every year at this tiny little school, drawings and such were created specifically to be shown at the local fair. That particular year, I did a somewhat massive pencil drawing meant to be somewhat dark and minimal. It was meant to be black and white. It was meant to be 'raw'.

    Despite my better judgment, I listened to my 'art' teacher on her idea to add some color to the piece. I added some very light tones of color in order to hint at some pales hues and tones. Trying all the while to keep the piece in the realm of simplicity.

    She wanted me to add more, which I summarily denied (this was the most I was willing to change it I told her), and my piece was left over night to be matted and framed.

    I came to class the next day to find my drawing was now dabbed with bright greens and blues forming loose lines of color from top to bottom. I just about shat myself.

    Naturally, I expressed my somewhat monumental displeasure at this defacing of my work by walking straight out of the class and bringing a fairly disgruntled attitude to the class from there on. It basically became my nap class and was filled with niffty little snide remarks by my teacher to the rest of the class concerning my apparent 'snootiness'. Far be it for me to nod off watching some silly movie about picasso's work or drawing disfigured heads instead of listening to a story about some 6 year old who's supposed to be the next coming of Christ to 'art' f*cks. I really didn't care. I still don't. Picasso can take a good long tug off a fat d*ck as far as I'm concerned.

    What the hell was I talking about? Anyway, I'm reminded of the old saying: "Those who can't; teach." This seems to ring true with most teachers. Never forget that teachers usually have no idea what they're talking about. If they did, they wouldn't need a book with all the answers in it. You just do what you need to do and bide what time you have left. Just make sure that one day you can walk into this guy's class and show him your net worth and laugh your ass off at him.

    GoMegaX.deviantart.com


    Those who can't; teach.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    399
    Thanks
    217
    Thanked 178 Times in 83 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    My highschool art teacher was considered a 'cool' teacher. But all I remember him ever teaching us was:

    1. Use overlap to create depth.
    2. If you can't draw something, try to find a way to avoid drawing it. For example, if you can't draw hands, put them behind the character's back.



    ......



    Yeah, I know.

    My Self-Portraits

    "Work for your self first. You can paint best the things you like or the things you hate. You cannot paint well when indifferent.
    Express a mental opinion about something you are sensitive to in life around you. There is a profound difference between sensitivity and sentimentality."

    ~ John Sloan Gist of Art
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  18. #15
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,666 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    An important thing to remember, especially for those of high school age...

    Just because someone else is an ass, doesn't mean you aren't.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  20. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    4,881
    Thanks
    286
    Thanked 1,437 Times in 259 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by GoMegaX View Post
    Anyway, I'm reminded of the old saying: "Those who can't; teach."
    Every time someone utters this piece of boiled shit, Seedling punches a puppy.

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Seedling For This Useful Post:


  22. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    79
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 13 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Okay here I go...

    Hyskoa: I guess I do expect more from teachers, high school or not. During my summer pre-college at SVA, the professors were MUCH better and they respected your opinion (now that I think about it, my illustration teacher DID say "high school teachers don't know shit" a while ago, funny how it rings true for most things. MOST THINGS.) I find the best teachers are the ones in other departments... such as my old math teacher and my japanese teacher, those two support me and don't have all these biased opinions or "art baggage".

    Emerald_Mara85: I COMPLETELY AGREE with you!! Why are there so many restrictions in institutions, even education? I'm the editor-in-chief of the school's Comics magazine and we have to deal with so much bullsh*t censorship. I hate that. I hate how limited self-expression has become because everybody's a COWARD. The teachers don't want to lose their jobs (I have many examples of this but I'll spare you). Soon enough, there will only be the Bullies and the Cowards, and the Artists in between (and I guess you really have to be passionate and brave to stick it to them, which is what I found myself doing last year around editorials and created alot of trouble for everyone....)

    Eskanto: I wasn't saying photographers aren't artists, sorry if it sounded that way. What I mean is that as a photographer he constantly has to deal with being told such and such, and that "emotional baggage" makes him more hostile to prove he's just as good as the artists who put him down or say photography is a hack medium. And I absolutely adore Alphonse Mucha (favorite artist! oh yeah!) and there's all these artists my art teachers love that don't appeal to me, and vice versa. And they're always condescending and hostile when you disagree with them.

    Zilant: Thanks for the great reply. It did set things a bit straighter and you're right, I don't know his intentions and why he seems to "pick on me" more. I have no idea what he thinks of me in the first place (although I should mention, he used to work for a family friend and I've met up with him and another teacher outside school before... so I know he likes me... but do you maybe think he's just trying to push me?) You said most people drift in and out for easy credit, and if he knows I'm passionate than maybe he's trying to push me further than his other students (which would explain why I think he's "picking on me") except I'm taking it the wrong way and thinking of it as a personal attack. <i>"I have to wonder if this is less a clash of opinions and more a clash of egos."</i> You're right... it's turned into an ego-war than a war of "taste" and I don't want to admit it. I was trying to avoid sounding that way (which is difficult to do while ranting...) because I felt guilty that I would think of myself as better than a TEACHER... but some things I don't agree with him on and I don't think I have to like everything he likes. After all, I'm not him.

    Zaxter: I give a shit because that's who I am. I care strongly about things. If I wasn't so passionate or so extreme in my beliefs, nothing would get done. You need a person to push the boundaries, even if it's just a 'stupid high school art class'. I'm not that obnoxious whiny student who says, "I want to get everything out of this class, I want to LEARN and LEARN and get my money's worth". That's not it. I don't take classes for the grade, I don't even think about grades and I end up with straight A's at the end of the semester(math the exception) because I have personal drive to soak everything up. I give a shit about everything, except the morons at my high school. Other than that, I want to grow as a human being. Too many people don't give a shit in the world, regardless if it's even the tiniest thing.

    Seedling: Thanks for the advice, especially for what I should expect in college. I used to think, for the longest time, that other people were right and that I wasn't entitled to have my own opinion because it was different and wrong. I know it sounds stupid, but when my history teacher gave an in-class essay in the 9th grade and said we could DISAGREE with the quote, it blew my mind. Ever since then, I guess I just question everything... which is a troublesome habit, true, if I don't keep it under control (rather than "bottled up").

    Grief: Thanks for the comment. You're posts are always nice to read.

    SigonWolf: So it's not that they're wrong, but how they expose that to us. It's the TEACHING that the art teachers aren't good at. It makes sense.

    GoMegaX: That's f*cking ridiculous!! She tampered with your work? You should have complained, man. And the fact that that basically ruined your early art education... THAT pisses me off. Teachers, more than trying to enfore "their way", should say things even if they have to LIE to make the young artist have a certain reaction. Like the way to appraoch a situation. In my SVA pre-college, the teacher gave harsher crits (but more offensive than constructive) to the arrogant kids, and were alot more positively constructive to the modest and insecure ones -- even if their work was worse, because the point was to boost the confidence of the "worse" kids and make them inspired to draw and improve, which is what happened. And the arrogant kids bragged less, and eventually learned to be humble and less self-centered. The teacher, in that case, did his job. His students grew because he said the right things.

    Elwell the Wise One: Thanks for being condescending, we all know age makes people more mature, like writing useless replies that more mature "high school age" people, even if they are (gasp!) younger, will take time the to reply to. You could have either taken the time to help me out than have written anything at all because your comment makes you seem like an idiot. But I guess that wouldn't be possible, because your past the "high school age". (Note: No one's old enough to know better).

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  23. #18
    GoMegaX's Avatar
    GoMegaX is offline Product of American Teachers! Level 1 Gladiator: Andabatae
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    44
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
    Every time someone utters this piece of boiled shit, Seedling punches a puppy.
    The problem with cliches is, they tend to be that way because they're true. Not for everyone, mind you, but in general. No one thing can pertain to the whole. It's not ow it works.

    Enjoy punching those puppies.

    GoMegaX.deviantart.com


    Those who can't; teach.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  24. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    4,881
    Thanks
    286
    Thanked 1,437 Times in 259 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by GoMegaX View Post
    The problem with cliches is, they tend to be that way because they're true. Not for everyone, mind you, but in general. No one thing can pertain to the whole. It's not ow it works.

    Enjoy punching those puppies.
    Okay, you want puppy-punching. . .

    <puppypunch>

    Do you also think that the majority of artists are starving? Or that fantasy/sci-fi subject matter is for kids or geeks who live in their parents’ basements? Or that graffiti “art” is for wanna-be gang-members and wanna-be artists? Or that all deviantart users are kids who make excuses for their work and won’t ever become professional artists? These aren’t true for everyone, mind you, but in general. They all apply to you, just as teaching applies to me. Frankly, it looks like your work is stagnating because you have summarily rejected all teachers because they teach instead of do. You are going to have to get over your beloved cliché if you want to make it to professional levels as an artist.

    </puppypunch>

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  25. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,035
    Thanks
    2,167
    Thanked 3,344 Times in 1,123 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    My professional practices teacher owns a marketing company. My productions fundementals teacher, web design prof, visual communication prof, digital programs prof, and coordinator who teaches corporate ID, advanced design application, typography etc etc etc are all working graphic designers. My painting teacher was a painter who.... painted for a living.

    They do and teach. (*puts on puppypunching gloves to help seedling*)

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  26. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    393
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 87 Times in 54 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by GoMegaX View Post
    Anyway, I'm reminded of the old saying: "Those who can't; teach." This seems to ring true with most teachers. Never forget that teachers usually have no idea what they're talking about. If they did, they wouldn't need a book with all the answers in it. You just do what you need to do and bide what time you have left. Just make sure that one day you can walk into this guy's class and show him your net worth and laugh your ass off at him.
    That's logically incoherent. If that were really true, art would be totally nonderivative, and we'd all be doing drastically different things. Unless you mean to say that everything, or at least 'most' things we've learned from one another is worthless. That is, if you've accepted critique from teachers, or from people who have had teachers, your art is 'most likely' now garbage too.

    Your statement basically blankets out 'most' of art history, and denies the efficacy of 'most' master's studios and ateliers. Good luck trying to defend that.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  27. #22
    Jason Manley's Avatar
    Jason Manley is offline Administrator Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Austin TX
    Posts
    9,122
    Thanks
    1,968
    Thanked 10,599 Times in 2,206 Posts
    Follows
    2
    Following
    1
    You are very closed minded. This is not a good thing for an artist to be. It is not rare to find someone of so little experience to be so opinionated. The question you need to ask yourself is. "Do I want to be a closed minded student or an open minded one?"

    You think you already know so much...but given your age and experience, there is no way that is the case. No way at all. So I would suggest that you get off your high horse and get your nose into the studies and perhaps have a few life experiences along the way. In time you might actually have something important to say. Right now...nothing you said is really new information...same ole frustrated closed minded student cliche's that exist in every single art school out there...usually in the frustrated freshmen and sophomores. I am sure Elwell knows what I am talking about. He has had to deal with this type of learning obsticle more than once, I am sure.

    At your level of limited artistic and life experience you should just open your mind and try listening. Being open to new, and different, ideas is what art school is all about. The whole point is to open you up so you can learn to take things in. The student who sits there arguing with the teacher in his mind is bound to only learn 10 percent of what the teacher is trying to teach...and that mentality carries over into the artist as he creates his works, letting his mind get in the way of truly feeling and seeing the experiences in front of him. Beware of ego. It will hold you down like little ropes in Gullivers travels.

    In time you will figure this out and will surrender yourself to learning. So my advice, again, is to stop being so closed minded. The fact is, not all teachers will be great, but even the bad ones have more experience than you do and have things that you can learn from. For example, the teacher asking the student to do a master study...perhaps that student is too stiff and needs to explore more loosely composed works...perhaps his works are too planned..who knows...it is not worth arguing...the point is that the teacher saw something he was trying to get the student to open to and you did not see it due to your own limited experience. You could apply that same idea to your own work..."like gee whiz teacher, i could do some master studies too!". Right there your problem of not learning from the teacher would be solved. You are just being too closed minded to do so.


    Jason Manley

    Last edited by Jason Manley; November 20th, 2007 at 12:09 AM.
    LEVEL UP! - ConceptArt.Org online workshops 25% off registration right now!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  28. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jason Manley For This Useful Post:


  29. #23
    Zaxser is offline Steph Laberis Fanboy Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    518
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 114 Times in 65 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Forecast View Post
    Zaxter: I give a shit because that's who I am. I care strongly about things. If I wasn't so passionate or so extreme in my beliefs, nothing would get done. You need a person to push the boundaries, even if it's just a 'stupid high school art class'. I'm not that obnoxious whiny student who says, "I want to get everything out of this class, I want to LEARN and LEARN and get my money's worth". That's not it. I don't take classes for the grade, I don't even think about grades and I end up with straight A's at the end of the semester(math the exception) because I have personal drive to soak everything up. I give a shit about everything, except the morons at my high school. Other than that, I want to grow as a human being. Too many people don't give a shit in the world, regardless if it's even the tiniest thing.
    You're doing it again.
    See, passion isn't a universally good thing. Passion undirected is pointless; passion misdirected is destructive. I'm some dude on the internet. You should spend your time drawing. Talking to people. Making out with your girlfriend. Making a huge post just to justify your own bitchy attitude is A WASTE OF YOUR TIME.

    This is just example out of your post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Forecast View Post
    This photo teacher KNOWS I can see things wrong aesthetically and he's singled me out on occaisons (alone) and we haven't ALWAYS disagreed. For instance, I'll take out a print and tell him it would look better to crop it "here" and he'd enthusiastically agree (bringing it up days on end afterwards) but sometimes he is VERY strange. Everybody else in the photo room (including him) has no drawing ability and I don't understand how, if you don't know how to draw, you have as much of a critical eye (an example are the other students, who don't see things wrong with their work or take "the easy way out" by picking one frame out of 3 or 4 rolls). I'm sure if I showed my photo teacher a self portrait I drew, he wouldn't be able to pick out the things that were "off" about it, or say what it needed. I'm not saying drawing ability translates into good photography, but when making certain DECISIONS in contact sheets, how can artists agree?? He oftentimes chooses for his students what they should print and makes his own marks when I feel like alot of times his decisions are poor and he's not "aesthetically attracted" to the same things I am. He's also a bit too polluted in his art books.
    It doesn't matter that he can't draw. You shouldn't care. Your passion directed at this is destroying any chance you might have at learning from this guy. You care about how other students are getting good shots. Thats also a huge waste of energy. Not only are you directing energy away from the task at hand, you're also instantly judging a technique, destroying another chance to learn. You give a shit about the wrong things and you need to stop before you get an ulcer. Passion is good when it reveals sincerity. Caring bout the wrong things reveals a troubling insincerity toward your education.

    Last edited by Zaxser; November 20th, 2007 at 01:53 AM.
    Do you Mentler?

    Booting up a new sketchbook.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to Zaxser For This Useful Post:


  31. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    79
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 13 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxser View Post
    Making out with your girlfriend.
    ...Or boyfriend (I'm a girl). But I doubt making out with my "boyfriend" is going to make me "get a life" and stop wasting my time on passion, or whatever the point was you were trying to make. Which I think was that I'm wasting my time with arguing. And on the other spectrum, there's the 99.9% of students in my school who take photo for the lame credit, drifting in and out. I'm sorry I can't find a medium. I have highs and lows. He should explain himself rather than brush me off and decide what I should do. I try defending my beliefs and he gets offended b/c he's super sensitive (and I'm emotional, so I guess we mix pretty bad). He has a cute ass, though. (sorry, it's like 3am and I can't focus)

    Okay, so passion is destructive. I know what you're thinking now that I told you I'm a girl, right.... "So she's a bitch who whines to her teacher b/c she's close minded and egotistical and think she knows better". It's more like, I sit and listen to him decide what I have to print and don't open my mouth, don't show any hostility, and fear of asking him why. I do like him as a person -- for chrissake I see him on the weekends sometimes -- but as a teacher I don't think he really gets what he's doing. Because when I did ask him, "Why this picture?" he gave me a vague answer and acted condescending.

    We'll just drop this thread here and just leave it as a case of the usual "close minded student and bad teacher" especially b/c this is going to turn into a flame war pretty soon btw the 'puppypunchers'...

    I understand you guys have to be harsh to get me to understand, but sometimes I just get sick of it because it's so predictable.

    g'night.. thjanks for everyones comments

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  32. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Erth
    Posts
    784
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 45 Times in 25 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by eskanto View Post
    teachers are like that. i had a teacher who hated alphonse mucha (who i love) and thought egon schiele was the best thing since sliced bread.
    I would haaaate that as a teacher unless she states her grievances about Mucha with good evidences...

    LONG LIVE YOKO KANNO!!!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  33. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    406
    Thanks
    22
    Thanked 94 Times in 68 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    If teachers do keep picking out things I think are crackpot I will ask them what on earth they're thinking. Sometimes they tell me to shut up, but most of the time I get a reasonable answer and you can see where they're coming from.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  34. #27
    GoMegaX's Avatar
    GoMegaX is offline Product of American Teachers! Level 1 Gladiator: Andabatae
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    44
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I just wanted to let forecast know I understand his problem. Since this offended everyone, I apologize. Honestly. I had no intention of starting some big thread of nastiness.

    GoMegaX.deviantart.com


    Those who can't; teach.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  35. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Oviedo, Asturias, Spain
    Posts
    179
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    People should have more respect for teachers. For me, the ultimate goal for anyone should be to be a great teacher of whatever his passion is. Being a good teacher is harder than it sounds, most teachers aren't "good ones".

    When I'm 50 or so I'd like to become this great art teacher I'd like to have. The problem is, I think I wouldn't have enough patience with my students.

    Just a little random thought, not necessarily referring to forecast or anyone in this thread

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  36. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    4,881
    Thanks
    286
    Thanked 1,437 Times in 259 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Favila, your goal is admirable, but there is no need to wait until you are 50. This is a great place to practice teaching, as well as patience.

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  37. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Oviedo, Asturias, Spain
    Posts
    179
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I agree with you seedling, but before I get to that point I also want to work in the videogames industry and all these dreams lol.

    But defineatly (sp?) when I have some knowledge to share I'll try to help!!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •