Paint/colour crit please (nudity)
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  1. #1
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    Paint/colour crit please (nudity)

    I have just finished painting an illustration of a character from Joe Hill's Heart Shaped Box. The illustration was done by Sorrel Sparks, so I don't need any crits of the original drawing.

    I am interested in any advice anyone has about the paint job I did on it, and about choice of colours? I read a lot abour deasturated/saturated colours and choice of palette, but when I come to work on an illo I get lost and seem to 'panic-pick' colours.

    The most notable thing about this illo is the hair - this is something I created wholly in the paint stage, and it is also the very first time I have used a grpahics tablet to paint something (the rest of the image was done with a mouse). I think the result is nice, though I only used default brushes so maybe that shows?

    I have also included the original illustration so you can see what I was working with.

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    "Admitting that free man may err, in no way invalidates the importance of his ability to decide for himself."
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    "laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
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    I think you need too take more time when coloring an image. You changed the color of the tattoos on the left arm but don't bother to do the same with the tattoos on her chest and don't even color in the tattoos on her right foot. You should add some reflective light from the wall behind her, don't just copy the image and offset to make the shadow (it looks cheesy), blend more, and you just need to take your time on the hair to get it right. It looks like you just threw in random stroke and colors.
    I know that's a lot of information at once, but bottom line, take your time to do it right.

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    I agree with the crit above.

    In addition. The cropped foot is bothering me. Better make her a fully standing
    view. About the color choice. I would watch out choosing colors in the flesh
    that are so obviously on one side of the spectrum. I think it would be better to
    implement shades of purple that are not so obviously purple.
    The viewer must have the illusion of a body, skin. Not think " oh that's a purple shadow there"

    try adjusting your colors by playing with the opacity of brushes - Layering.

    www.tomvandewouwer.com

    "There is no such thing as 'accurate drawing'. There is beautiful
    drawing, and ugly, and nothing else." JAD Ingres, Ecrits sur l'art
    (1780-1865)"
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    Those chunky fingers and universally thick lines make me want to move out of Georgia.


    OK, there are other reasons, too, but this is one of the big ones.


    This piece would profit greatly from some simple application of basic reference, especially in the head and legs (but everywhere else, too).

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    Quote Originally Posted by zypher18 View Post
    You should add some reflective light from the wall behind her, don't just copy the image and offset to make the shadow (it looks cheesy), blend more, and you just need to take your time on the hair to get it right.
    So should I not offset to make the shadow at all if it looks cheesy, or would it be ok if I had included some refelcted light onto her body? I don't understand how if she was stood next to a shadow any light would reflect back at all . . ?

    What else could I do with the hair to make it right? Do you think I would get better results doing the same thing but with a custom brush that made more smaller marks?

    Thanks for the ace crit, btw!

    ART BLOG

    "Admitting that free man may err, in no way invalidates the importance of his ability to decide for himself."
    Robert LeFevre

    "laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Cesare Beccaria
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art_Addict View Post
    I would watch out choosing colors in the flesh that are so obviously on one side of the spectrum. I think it would be better to implement shades of purple that are not so obviously purple.

    The viewer must have the illusion of a body, skin. Not think " oh that's a purple shadow there"

    try adjusting your colors by playing with the opacity of brushes - Layering.
    I don't really understand this, I'm afraid. Do you think that the colour I chose for the lit areas of flesh is ok? What I did was take a darker blue and with a low opacity brush I painted in the shadows. What else could I have done?

    What do you mean by saying that I chose colours that were 'obvioulsy onone side of the spectrum?' I tried to include oranges, yellows, reds, blues, purples . . . ?

    ART BLOG

    "Admitting that free man may err, in no way invalidates the importance of his ability to decide for himself."
    Robert LeFevre

    "laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Cesare Beccaria
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfood View Post
    Those chunky fingers and universally thick lines make me want to move out of Georgia.


    OK, there are other reasons, too, but this is one of the big ones.


    This piece would profit greatly from some simple application of basic reference, especially in the head and legs (but everywhere else, too).

    Is this a crit of the drawing or the painting? Note I only did the painting.

    ART BLOG

    "Admitting that free man may err, in no way invalidates the importance of his ability to decide for himself."
    Robert LeFevre

    "laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Cesare Beccaria
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    What I mean is that when I look at the shadow I think " wow that's purple "
    I don't think " ha, that's skin in shadow "
    I hope it is more clear now.

    What do you mean by saying that I chose colours that were 'obvioulsy onone side of the spectrum?' I tried to include oranges, yellows, reds, blues, purples . . . ?
    Exactly that. When you look at paintings look at how subtle the color shifts are in skin.

    www.tomvandewouwer.com

    "There is no such thing as 'accurate drawing'. There is beautiful
    drawing, and ugly, and nothing else." JAD Ingres, Ecrits sur l'art
    (1780-1865)"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art_Addict View Post
    What I mean is that when I look at the shadow I think " wow that's purple "
    I don't think " ha, that's skin in shadow "
    I hope it is more clear now.
    It certainly is, thank you.

    But I don't know how to go about fixing it. Do you think I should use a less blue colour to shade with? Even if I dropped the opacity right down, surely with several layers of shading I'd have the exact same problem? It would eventually build up and the skin would be blue again.

    ART BLOG

    "Admitting that free man may err, in no way invalidates the importance of his ability to decide for himself."
    Robert LeFevre

    "laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Cesare Beccaria
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones Weep Tedium View Post

    But I don't know how to go about fixing it. Do you think I should use a less blue colour to shade with? Even if I dropped the opacity right down, surely with several layers of shading I'd have the exact same problem? It would eventually build up and the skin would be blue again.
    It's not a digital problem. It's a lack of understanding, value, chroma and temperature.
    There are many good threads about this on the forums. Browse around a bit ,
    absorb and make traditional studies. That will make your understanding grow.

    Here's one to start you off with by Ron Lemen :

    www.tomvandewouwer.com

    "There is no such thing as 'accurate drawing'. There is beautiful
    drawing, and ugly, and nothing else." JAD Ingres, Ecrits sur l'art
    (1780-1865)"
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art_Addict View Post
    It's not a digital problem. It's a lack of understanding, value, chroma and temperature.
    There are many good threads about this on the forums. Browse around a bit ,
    absorb and make traditional studies. That will make your understanding grow.

    Here's one to start you off with by Ron Lemen :
    Thank you Art Addict. You've been very helpful to me

    ART BLOG

    "Admitting that free man may err, in no way invalidates the importance of his ability to decide for himself."
    Robert LeFevre

    "laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Cesare Beccaria
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    here is a good tutorial on how to do hair:

    http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthre...hreadid=259468

    as for reflective light, do some experiments with lamps and objects to find out exactly how this works out. You see, if you look at a shadow, it has color. It has color because it's reflecting light.

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    bad choice on artwork to color...as well
    visit some comic forums, and practice on the better images. (get permission first!)

    -

    J.L. ALFARO


    "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind."
    -Dr. Seuss


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    Quote Originally Posted by JL.Alfaro View Post
    bad choice on artwork to color...as well
    there's some truth to this. its not that it's a bad piece* to color, its just that you chose a bad stylization and method to color it.

    creating a painterly sculptural layer of coloring doesnt fit too well with the stylized linework. its like mixing ice cream and greasy pizza, both delicious, but you can't pile one on top of the other and expect it to come out even better.

    since the image is obviously taking a lot of aspects for granted in its distortions of reality (style its drawn in) you need to find a method of coloring which aplifies and harmoniously pairs with the linework. you need to find the 'cake' to your 'ice cream' so to speak.

    i think the cake in this instense will be through flat coloring and taking a lot of artistic liberties. try crisp edges of areas of color layered instead of blended.


    *well there are some elements which bother me. but you said the linework wasnt your doing.


    thick lines + flat color = a yummy balance.
    clean lines = clean color

    (below) here's a drawing of link where i had to color the image the same as i created the lines without creating a distracting dichotomy. now i could have used some fancy schmancy texture and brushwork to show every thread and stitching on his tunic, but would that have really fit with the style of the lines?

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    Last edited by Grief; November 8th, 2007 at 02:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashinvaine View Post
    Very heavy handed linework. Needs more delicacy and finesse, especially around the facial features. Even punkified the female form requires more careful treatment! The anatomy is slightly off, too, the legs look too short and narrow. The crazy fingers have been mentioned. The one eye is too low down (or her eyebrows are too high) and she needs eyelashes.
    Are these things that I would be expected to sort out if I were doing this painting professionally?

    ART BLOG

    "Admitting that free man may err, in no way invalidates the importance of his ability to decide for himself."
    Robert LeFevre

    "laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
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    Quote Originally Posted by zypher18 View Post
    here is a good tutorial on how to do hair:

    http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthre...hreadid=259468

    as for reflective light, do some experiments with lamps and objects to find out exactly how this works out. You see, if you look at a shadow, it has color. It has color because it's reflecting light.
    It was very kind of you to track the link down for me, and thanks for the advice. I suppose that if it's possible to see something, then it must be casting some light, but you wouldn't automatically think of it as a lightsource.

    ART BLOG

    "Admitting that free man may err, in no way invalidates the importance of his ability to decide for himself."
    Robert LeFevre

    "laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Cesare Beccaria
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  20. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grief View Post
    there's some truth to this. its not that it's a bad piece* to color, its just that you chose a bad stylization and method to color it.

    creating a painterly sculptural layer of coloring doesnt fit too well with the stylized linework. its like mixing ice cream and greasy pizza, both delicious, but you can't pile one on top of the other and expect it to come out even better.

    since the image is obviously taking a lot of aspects for granted in its distortions of reality (style its drawn in) you need to find a method of coloring which aplifies and harmoniously pairs with the linework. you need to find the 'cake' to your 'ice cream' so to speak.

    i think the cake in this instense will be through flat coloring and taking a lot of artistic liberties. try crisp edges of areas of color layered instead of blended.


    *well there are some elements which bother me. but you said the linework wasnt your doing.


    thick lines + flat color = a yummy balance.
    clean lines = clean color

    (below) here's a drawing of link where i had to color the image the same as i created the lines without creating a distracting dichotomy. now i could have used some fancy schmancy texture and brushwork to show every thread and stitching on his tunic, but would that have really fit with the style of the lines?
    I definitely understand what you're saying, and I recognise that this approach is the most common, but I was deliberately trying to break this rule when I was doing this.

    I had Dave Cousens in mind and the way that he mixes simple, clean line work with some more painterly textures.

    Obviously my image is no where near as resolved as his, but this is the sort of thing I had in mind when I was painting this image. I guess what you're saying is true to a certain extent; you can definitley see where he has used simple colouring on the girl. But on the tree and on the monkey he has used more detailed textures and the effect is very interesting because it contrasts with the style of the lineart.

    I hope you realize I'm not saying this to try and criticise your crit, just trying to establish with you one of my influences and engage you in conversation. I appreciate your comments very much.

    I have done another painting of this artists lines before, that had slightly more success IMO. In this other painting (below), I actually used some of her lines as rim lighting. Do you think that this gets the balance any better, and I should try actually removing some of her original line art in the Georgia picture?

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    "Admitting that free man may err, in no way invalidates the importance of his ability to decide for himself."
    Robert LeFevre

    "laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Cesare Beccaria
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    elaborating on your work helps the community give more direct feedback, so your additional comments give a better idea of the direction you want to go.

    Dave Cousens is doing exactly what i said works with stylized linework. there is very minimal blending of hues and sculpting of form through subtle value changes. he uses crisp hard brushes to delineate areas of color. dont confuse this with the implied texture he creates through the brushwork though.

    for the most part the contrast of complexity in texture is what is activating your eye. he treats the figures and objects with a more crisp feel. and while his background looks to be more chaotic and painterly, its really just a series of layers of colors (he may or may not use 'layers', thats not what i'm getting at). the figures are clearly defined and tend to pop out while through color he subdues the environment, the texture however plays an intergral role in establishing atmospheric perspective, making the piece more beleivable.

    but look at the complexity (or lack of) in his female figure, the skin changes slightly from section to section, but it remains flat, and the shadows are simplified and also flat. he doesnt have thirty colors of dark hues in his shadows on the skintones, your eye treats it all the same. you don't really need to develope full blown chiaroscuro to get the idea across of the form being rendered, which is what i meant by stylized coloring pairing well with stylized line.

    i know that you already know this (as you pointed out such things in your reply). i'm just really skeptical about using invented colors in shadows in a modeled form to depict soft transitions and volume. the linework flattens the image, and the coloring would be competing against it if you try to push too many values into it.

    i dunno, its a tricky balance which i don't feel ive seen strong enough examples to visualize what it'd look like.
    i'd love to be proven wrong and see two opposing visual aspects work together.

    Last edited by Grief; November 8th, 2007 at 06:33 PM.
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  22. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grief View Post
    elaborating on your work helps the community give more direct feedback, so your additional comments give a better idea of the direction you want to go.

    Dave Cousens is doing exactly what i said works with stylized linework. there is very minimal blending of hues and sculpting of form through subtle value changes. he uses crisp hard brushes to delineate areas of color. dont confuse this with the implied texture he creates through the brushwork though.

    for the most part the contrast of complexity in texture is what is activating your eye. he treats the figures and objects with a more crisp feel. and while his background looks to be more chaotic and painterly, its really just a series of layers of colors (he may or may not use 'layers', thats not what i'm getting at). the figures are clearly defined and tend to pop out while through color he subdues the environment, the texture however plays an intergral role in establishing atmospheric perspective, making the piece more beleivable.

    but look at the complexity (or lack of) in his female figure, the skin changes slightly from section to section, but it remains flat, and the shadows are simplified and also flat. he doesnt have thirty colors of dark hues in his shadows on the skintones, your eye treats it all the same. you don't really need to develope full blown chiaroscuro to get the idea across of the form being rendered, which is what i meant by stylized coloring pairing well with stylized line.

    i know that you already know this (as you pointed out such things in your reply). i'm just really skeptical about using invented colors in shadows in a modeled form to depict soft transitions and volume. the linework flattens the image, and the coloring would be competing against it if you try to push too many values into it.

    i dunno, its a tricky balance which i don't feel ive seen strong enough examples to visualize what it'd look like.
    i'd love to be proven wrong and see two opposing visual aspects work together.
    I think I get it now. I suppose you could say that while Dave Cousen's textures contast with the cartoony bits (making th image pop), my attempts at paintery bits contradict the cartoony bits (making the image fall on it's face).

    Maybe that's why the other painting I did worked out better, becasue I let the paintery bits dominate the line work?

    ART BLOG

    "Admitting that free man may err, in no way invalidates the importance of his ability to decide for himself."
    Robert LeFevre

    "laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Cesare Beccaria
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