I'm haveing trouble "Understanding"

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  1. #1
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    I'm haveing trouble "Understanding"

    Ok, first of all I'm new here to the forums, I have had no training, or courses in the subject, so I'm a little dry when it comes to the depth of visual arts.

    Here is my problem, while I am drawing, I see the model, I draw the model, a lot of my peers think I'm doing a okay-to-well-job on the majority of them, but something is lacking. (Disclamer here, I haven't been able to start a sketchbook on the forums here yet because of scanner problems...alltough I'm really want to.)

    While I am drawing I notice that I'm not comeing to a full understanding of what it is that I'm takeing note of. Sure, here is bone, here is cartilige, here is a rige that helpes define the shape of the eye, but I'm not takeing what I am drawing into full view for what it is, and its purpose inside of the paper.

    This is actually really starting to annoy me because I'm not really getting anywere when I try to break myself of this because whenever I draw I always snap back into that "look at it, draw it" mode...

    So, does anyone know anything to help this?

    Anything would be great,
    and thanks for reading my thread!

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  3. #2
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    It might be a philosophical problem, for which I often recommend reading Harvey Dunn's lecture notes as a beginning...

    http://www.robolus.com/h.dunn-eveningclassroom.pdf

    I'd also read Robert Henri's The Art Spirit

    Best,
    kev

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
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  4. #3
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    I think the concept. Or at least one of the concept is to capture the model as quikly as possble (not a race), Using long lines and not scratchy unsure lines (good line quality). ITs also helpful to learn how the muscles (or weight) relax and how it looks in position.

    BUt I could be wrong. And if I am someone correct me.

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  5. #4
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    Ahhh, GREAT LINK Kev,

    After reading a good portion, something has got me ticking.

    Newtons Law: for every forse there is a equal and oppisite forse at work.

    I'm utterley convinced that art demonstrates that law at work Perfectley.
    This is actually something that has been bothering me for sometime, and at first I thought it was just me getting a little to wraped up "art", but this new perspective would have me question my jugement on what I considerd "too much"

    I'm enticed each time I draw to "Dive" into the subject, witch pulls at me, allmost to the point were I'm realizeing fundemental attributes about myself.

    But I thought I was just being a little melodramatic LOL

    Ok, but I still feel like when I begin to draw, someone on the bus after school, I can look at thier face but whenever I draw it I always feel like something is missing. It just always feels like I'm just drawing what I'm seeing and it ends there...

    blarg, gotta end it here, bye.

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  6. #5
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    Vhan JuJu... if you are only drawing what you are seeing... you are missing *you* in the picture.

    Of course, you can't help but get some of you in there. Art is like handwriting in that respect. The point is to let it happen. Be more open to your own sense of self as you draw. As Harvey Dunn says, "when you draw that man's nose, it is your nose that you are really drawing."

    Philosophical point: Creating art will change you. And changing yourself will change your art. In large measure art is a process of self-exploration.

    kev

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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  7. #6
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    Wow, this is actually a little hard to believe but after thinking about what you said Kev ferrara, I'm noticeing that I'm afraid of that...wow...To add to that it makes complete sence to me...

    THIS IS AMAZEING! I feel like I have just taken a slege hammer and taken it with one good wack towards a gate, and just bareley cracked it open to see inside.

    Art is proveing to be much more than I originally thought it was. (however much to my displeashure it feels like a very angry cube of ice is sitting at the base of my stomach)

    Understanding what I am drawing, Is me...

    This is Awesome! For a while I kept doubting why I was even doing this in the first place, considering that a lot of people don't really consider this a skill in the first place. anyway thanks for the insight Kev! You have been a MAJOR HELP!!!! (now if only I can get my bloody sketchbook to work then I'm all good)



    Oh hang on I just read something on that link you gave me.

    "Paint with less of the facts, and more with the spirt, look a little on the model, and a lot of whats on the inside, paint more with feeling, than with thought"
    Is that even possible!?

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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vhan Juju View Post
    "Paint with less of the facts, and more with the spirt, look a little on the model, and a lot of whats on the inside, paint more with feeling, than with thought"
    Is that even possible!?
    Of course it is. But you must also understand that Harvey Dunn was lecturing to artists who, for the most part, were highly accomplished technically, but lacking "the art spirit". And most of Dunn's lectures were about lighting up their souls, so to speak.

    He doesn't mean "be drunk while you work", or "just do whatever you feel like"... he saying, don't be afraid to bring your emotions into your work. Be emotional, be dramatic, be soulful, and when you draw from the model, think about not just the way the model looks, but the spirit you feel of the model. I think Dunn mentions "illusiveness" as one example of a spirit a model can exude. There's millions of other feelings you can get. If... you get in touch with that part of yourself.

    Artists aren't just xerox machines. Or cameras. Or scanners. There's a reason one can instantly tell a norman rockwell from a rembrandt from a leyendecker from a pyle from a booth, from a coll, from a djurdjevic, from a frazetta...

    kev

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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  9. #8
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    Artists aren't just xerox machines. Or cameras. Or scanners. There's a reason one can instantly tell a norman rockwell from a rembrandt from a leyendecker from a pyle from a booth, from a coll, from a djurdjevic, from a frazetta...
    Ok, this is leaning to the "off topic" area, but that does bring me to another question that I have.

    At what point do I need to be aware of "my own style"

    Right now I'm pretty much sticking too studies in my anatomy book, and whatever still lifes i can get down in short amounts of alloted time.

    Mr. Dunn talks about not doing studies that don't intrest you, but from what I understand its a nessissity that you go through the painstakeing study to get a good foundation of art.

    My question, in sence, is when can I allow myself to brach out from my studies, and focus on real pictures?

    (Quite honestley I wouldn't mind keeping this thread alive for the sole sake of discussing some of the things I have read in Those Notes! Some of it is really getting me ticking!)

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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vhan Juju View Post
    My question, in essence, is when can I allow myself to branch out from my studies, and focus on real pictures?
    Now.

    You learn to play baseball by playing baseball.

    Yes, you practice bunting as you need it. You practice sliding into second as you need it. You do wind sprints to increase your speed. You work on your hand strength and batting stance and fielding technique and your throws to first base... But you are playing baseball all along.

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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  11. #10
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    I actually think that its time that I return to the old pencil and paper, and let myself chew on this for a while :p

    nothing aginst you Kev ferrara, but I think I need to let this rest a while while I go back to the basics!!!

    YOU HAVE BEEN A AWESOME HELP!!!

    Thanks so much!

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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vhan Juju View Post
    Quite honestley I wouldn't mind keeping this thread alive for the sole sake of discussing some of the things I have read in Those Notes! Some of it is really getting me ticking!)
    I'd be interested too, the first time I read those they totally hit home with me.
    I must have read them ten or twenty times now and they still make me think.

    As a Brit the baseball analogies fly right over my head but in footie terms the whole document reads like a textbook on how to consistently hit a 35 yarder into the top corner while not actually discussing technique ..Good stuff.

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  13. #12
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    Yea, I guess It wouldn't hurt too much, as long as I don't let myself get carried away with this stuff, thus neglecting actually drawing ounce in a while... lol ;p that could get messey.

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  14. #13
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    On style: Draw what you like, how you like, and do your own research into how things look. By this method, you will develop a style.

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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  15. #14
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    One of the only quotes attributed to Rembrandt, reported by a contemporary of his goes: "Practice well what you already know, and those things that are hidden from you will in time reveal themselves".

    From Gegarin's point of view
    http://www.chrisbennettartist.co.uk/
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