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  1. #1
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    Question: 3D and sculpture on same page

    Hello friends,

    I was wondering why we have both 3D and sculpture on the same page? I work 3D, and look for 3D threads. There are some AMAZING sculptures here, but they don't help so much with understanding 3D computer modeling techniques.

    Of course, a good 3D modeler ought to work in clay as well, but my point is about organizing the threads separately on CA. Your thoughts?


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  3. #2
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    My thoughts on it.

    Sculpture is sculpture weather it is digital or clay.

    There are lots of sites on digital techniques. I think this CA section is about sculpture art as a whole. If you are looking for a technique site I could suggest many.

    A great site is

    http://www.3dbuzz.com
    or if your a Zbushy
    http://www.zbrushcentral.com.

    Respectfully, James
    Rust never Sleeps.
    Nothing is what Rocks Dream of.

    James K.

  4. #3
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    I like how ConceptArt puts traditional and digital sculpture in the same place. I think the two are more alike than different, so it works for me. Plus, a 3D artist can get some insightful crits from traditional sculptors that they just wouldn't get in an "all 3D" forum.

    I do both so I guess that slants my view on it. Here are some more 3D forum links for those interested though.

    3DTotal
    SubdivisionModeling
    CGSociety
    Polycount

  5. #4
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    I think it's cool that they're together, but I also think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have some way to filter or search them based on whether they were digital, traditional, or general sculpting interest. Given that the forum software probably doesn't support doing that, I'd rather keep them all together..

  6. #5
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    I for one think they are 2 separate things. The classical definition of sculpture (Wikipedia is a great friend)
    "Sculptors have generally sought to produce works of art that are as permanent as possible, working in durable and frequently expensive materials such as bronze and stone: marble, limestone, porphyry, and granite. More rarely, precious materials such as gold, silver, jade, and ivory were used for chryselephantine works. More common and less expensive materials were used for sculpture for wider consumption, including woods such as oak, boxwood (Buxus) and lime or linden (Tilia), terra cotta and other ceramics, and cast metals such as pewter and zinc (spelter)."

    If site admins decide to join in sculpture and 3D in the same thread it's their call, but PLEASE let's not say they are the same thing.

    Just my 2 cents on the subject...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaledrub View Post
    If site admins decide to join in sculpture and 3D in the same thread it's their call, but PLEASE let's not say they are the same thing..
    But they are the same thing. Exactly the same thing.

    In both cases the artist is working to create a three dimensional object that didn't exist before based on shapes they have visualized in their mind. There is no more of a chasm between digital sculpting and modeling with clay than there is between modeling with clay and say, carving from stone, whittling from wood, or machining from metal. That the techniques used to achieve the end result are different or new do not change that fundamentally the same task is being accomplished.

    Sure, "generally" sculptors seek to create permanent forms. But that does not necessarily mean that the creation, in all its form, has to be permanent. How is a mathematical model any less permanent than an unfired clay sculpture used as the master for making a bronze? Rodin's Thinker exists today in many places, but the original clay sculpture does not. Does that mean it's not a "real" sculpture? On the other hand, you could use any number of methods for turning a digital model into a permanent sculpture, and it's very possible that a hundred years from now, that mathematical representation will still exist.

    There certainly are differences, although those differences are starting to blur with the advent of haptic systems that use force-feedback to make digital sculpting "feel" like traditional sculpting and, of course, the constant adoption of new technologies by sculptors and mold makers.

    You are making the mistake of confusing tools and techniques with the fundaments of our craft. Digital is a relatively new tool; digital models are a relatively new way of representing a three-dimensional shape, but that does not mean it is not sculpture.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaledrub View Post
    I for one think they are 2 separate things. The classical definition of sculpture (Wikipedia is a great friend)
    "Sculptors have generally sought to produce works of art that are as permanent as possible, working in durable and frequently expensive materials such as bronze and stone: marble, limestone, porphyry, and granite. More rarely, precious materials such as gold, silver, jade, and ivory were used for chryselephantine works. More common and less expensive materials were used for sculpture for wider consumption, including woods such as oak, boxwood (Buxus) and lime or linden (Tilia), terra cotta and other ceramics, and cast metals such as pewter and zinc (spelter)."

    If site admins decide to join in sculpture and 3D in the same thread it's their call, but PLEASE let's not say they are the same thing.

    Just my 2 cents on the subject...
    what was your point. Your simply stating something thats as obvious as saying painting is a wet medium.
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    I don't mind that they're on the same page. I agree that they can both be called sculpting, you just use different mediums, one is clay and one is software. Doesn't bother me i like looking at 3d sculptures once in a while too
    X

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    The fact is 3D creations aren't really 3D but 2D. You cannot grab it or move it somewhere else. Your definition is good and I'm not going against it, but as long as there's no technology like Star Trek's Holodeck, 3D creations will be just multi-perspective drawings.

    Again, like before, just my 2 cents.
    Peace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaledrub View Post
    The fact is 3D creations aren't really 3D but 2D. You cannot grab it or move it somewhere else. Your definition is good and I'm not going against it, but as long as there's no technology like Star Trek's Holodeck, 3D creations will be just multi-perspective drawings.

    Again, like before, just my 2 cents.
    Peace.
    hahahahaha I wish I could share with you all the superfluous coversations Iv had like this back an Art school. Well since your so informed on what defines a medium as being "real" Is painting in photoshop realy painting because I know a couple hundred people on this site whom could benifet from your limitless knowledge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshadowmaster View Post
    hahahahaha I wish I could share with you all the superfluous coversations Iv had like this back an Art school. Well since your so informed on what defines a medium as being "real" Is painting in photoshop realy painting because I know a couple hundred people on this site whom could benifet from your limitless knowledge.
    I thought the topic raised an interesting question to debate. But since this is the feedback I'm getting I guess I'll leave it as is...

  13. #12
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    not trying too have tone with you but I dont think this thread was about the argument of art through digital analogue Vs traditional.
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    Indeed, it was not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaledrub View Post
    The fact is 3D creations aren't really 3D but 2D. You cannot grab it or move it somewhere else. Your definition is good and I'm not going against it, but as long as there's no technology like Star Trek's Holodeck, 3D creations will be just multi-perspective drawings.
    Google "3D printing".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flake View Post
    Google "3D printing".
    In fact, check out Games Workshops newer plastic miniature ranges, especially new items such as Chaos Spawn. The entire sprue was designed with a 3D modelling program, and molds subsequently with something similar to a 3D printing program. This allows for many many runners of parts, which are a modellers wet dream.

    Is it more sculpting when you get to hold that mesh of polygons in your hand than when it is merely on screen?

    I hold the argument that those who have never used 3DSMAX, Zbrush, or Maya (etc) would not fully be able to grasp just how much of it is sculpture. It's sculpting something out of primitive shapes (polygons) and turning it into something much more. If you don't feel like using the definition sculpting, say "Stretching and extruding and moving and merging vertices into a complex form" which, if it isn't sculpting with mathematics, I don't know what is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Some dude from Wikipedia View Post
    "Sculptors have generally sought to produce works of art that are as permanent as possible..."
    Haha! What a dorky definition. What about sand sculpures? What about ice sculptures? What about Andy Goldsworthy?

    Anyway, my opinion is that they go together perfectly well. My inspiration folder is full of both intermixed. And as 3-D printers get better and cheaper, the computer is simply going to be seen as another sculpting tool.
    "Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

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    ....I like candy necklaces...lol. but er um...working in 3d = "sculpture" i thought...and 3D is moving up/down, left/right, forward/back...computer, or space...its sculpting...(and btw if you haven't tried it..CG is somewhat tougher if you ask me {for the insecure: not that my previous statement means CG is better or anything} I work in both..and i love them both!) the techniques are the same...only the tools change...like that bozo the clown game...and beer pong...... gl with your Sculptering....... wwwwoooo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakeman View Post
    CG is somewhat tougher if you ask me .
    Hrm... I don't know about that. Being able to instance almost a half of your workload is pretty damn convenient and time saving. Not to mention how easy it is to stamp amazing textures in Zbrush and Mudbox. I see sculpts done in those programs that took hours, that would take me days to do in clay. Kind of makes me sad. It seems that to the untrained eye a less competent sculptor can appear more talented with computer sculpting than they would with clay. At least that's my observation.
    "Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

  20. #19
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    Breath:

    lol! ya i'm working in zbrush now...and kind of overlooked that part..and the mirroring is sweet too ,which btw, i now vow to train my body to do with the left what it does with the right...exactly, and simultaneously...and train my mind to alter the space time continuum... successfully creating a real life undo feature...although i have been able to accomplish undoing all but art education from my brain...only a matter of time b4 i can undo that case of beers i drank that has me queezy right now

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakeman View Post
    Breath:

    lol! ya i'm working in zbrush now...and kind of overlooked that part..and the mirroring is sweet too ,which btw, i now vow to train my body to do with the left what it does with the right...exactly, and simultaneously...and train my mind to alter the space time continuum... successfully creating a real life undo feature...although i have been able to accomplish undoing all but art education from my brain...only a matter of time b4 i can undo that case of beers i drank that has me queezy right now

    I want some of what your smoking!!!
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