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Thread: Digital Painting In PS #2

  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dweller View Post
    Here's a quick study I did to show some of what I'm talking about.


    First, I think it's easier to judge color and value on a toned background. Choose something somewhat neutral, but in the right color key for your subject.

    Start by laying in the color that makes up the biggest surface area. For mine, it was that deep dark color, a reddish brown.

    Lay in other colors as you see them, doing the largest areas and moving down from there. Start general, and then go through a series of refining steps. Keep in eye on your highlights, shadow edges, and reflected lights. It doesn't have to be perfect and capture every detail, as long as you find the major clues that describe the form and lighting. You shouldn't need any details to get the idea across.
    Thanks Dweller, I'll do just that

    But can anyone tell me just how one goes about applying texture? I'd just like to know, I won't do it just yet, it seems that I need to work on getting tone down first. Do you use a custom brush, or a single round brush?

    Also, one more thing, I take it (And learned this from trial and error), that if you use less colours, or just 1 colour, for the apple, that it makes it looks completely flat?

    Thanks for the help guys, I definitely want to improve.

    Gah, forgot one thing - should I be using the colour picker, or should I be eying and selecting the colours manually?



    Edit:

    Ok, here's one I did just now, not too good

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    Last edited by Maledict; February 20th, 2008 at 01:02 AM.
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  2. #392
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    RabbiSatan, don't be so quick to condemn your newest effort, I think it's already a large improvement from your last one. I think if you keep practicing like that it won't be long before you really see results.

    To answer your question about detail and texture though, it kind of depends on different factors. Generally speaking, it's no different from what you did above. You start with the biggest areas, block in the large blocks of color, and when they feel right to you, start working on smaller blocks of color. Keep working from the general down to the specific. Detail and texture is exactly the same as blocking in the larger colors, but on a finer scale. It's all just observation and placing the correct colors in place.

    Can there sometimes be shortcuts? Special brushes to aid you in getting the effect you want? Sure, but like many other tools they can be over used if you aren't careful. Ultimately you don't need them.

    One piece of advice on detail and texture is don't over do it. Add just a little in just the right spots and imply the rest and you'll do wonders. Think of it this way, the human eye doesn't really register all of that detail anyways. The first thing it sees is the general shape, color, lights and shadows. If you add in as much detail as there really is, you'll only clutter and confuse things. Painters need to make choices, and create illusions. When YOU choose where to place the detail you are directing the viewer, guiding him on where he should be looking and what is important. People filter like this all the time, tune out things that don't require their attention. As an artist it's your job to do that for them when it comes to your image.

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    Thanks for taking the time to reply to me Dweller

    I am still a bit at a loss as to how you apply the texture to the apple - not the main colours of the apple mind you, I can see how that's done - its the dots, stripes, and various "spray" areas of dots and textures on the apple. If you don't use brushes, I take it that we do it as you described? Just that it takes a lot of time which can be whittled down with a lot of practice?

    Thanks

    Edit:

    Also, do you have any recommendations on what other settings to use for the brushes? Softness, opacity, flow, pressure sensitive opacity, etc? I can't make the brushes look as beautiful as some of the other people can do.

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    Exactly. Although you can be selective in how much detail you actually need to paint to get the point across. I'll use Bumskee's work on the first page again as an example. Look at the finished work (the part labeled "add detail"). There might be as few as as dozen or so of the smallest brush strokes finishing the illustration off, and they are concentrated near the highlight. You don't need to labor over the entire painting adding all of the detail you possibly see. In fact, if you attempt it, either by hand or with a special brush, you'll really only make the painting worse. It's more than we need, because people don't really see that way.

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    I'll add, do not use soft brushes, at least in these beginning steps, until you learn to use them, they will just screw up your paintings, they will "erase" your strokes and make your painting look weird.

    And watch the overall shape more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonish View Post
    I'll add, do not use soft brushes, at least in these beginning steps, until you learn to use them, they will just screw up your paintings, they will "erase" your strokes and make your painting look weird.

    And watch the overall shape more.
    Thanks Jonish, I did as you suggested, and instead lowered the flow to 80% (though not sure if that really does anything), and some magic happened this time, and it worked wonders.

    I'll try from now on to paint a new apple each day as a form of practice till I get better.

    Here's the image I did for today.



    I'm still no good with textures unfortunately, I tried my first attempt at texturing around the highlights in this image, but it not too great - it's something, passable, but not too great.

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    If you are going to work from photos, try this: Duplicate your photo into a new layer. Now apply a slight blur to it (the exact depends on the image). This will help remove some of the details that may be distracting you from the over all form, and possibly make it easier to see the major color changes. Keep questioning what you are doing. Are the shadows dark enough? Are they TOO dark? How about the high lights? Are they REALLY white, or do you just expect them to be white? Be sure to zoom waaaay out on your painting every so often to see if the over all impression of the image is working for you.

    I can see that you are noticing some of the color changes well enough, but you aren't quite getting them to "pop". It's ok to over state some of them sometimes, as it will help to give the correct impression. Sometimes it is better to over state it, then bring it back to a more realistic level later. For example, on my apple study above, I over stated the greyish-pink color too much to get my point across. If I was to go back and keep working on it I'd probably warm it back up again some, especially at the shadow edge where I really could have (and should have) pushed it further to start with.

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    I think that last thing to do, before calling your work done, should be that you pick eraser and clean the strokes breaking right overall shape, you're getting better, keep practicing as you said!

    Strange powers drag you through the black tunnel until you see mysterious Book of Void awaiting you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dweller View Post
    If you are going to work from photos, try this: Duplicate your photo into a new layer. Now apply a slight blur to it (the exact depends on the image). This will help remove some of the details that may be distracting you from the over all form, and possibly make it easier to see the major color changes. Keep questioning what you are doing. Are the shadows dark enough? Are they TOO dark? How about the high lights? Are they REALLY white, or do you just expect them to be white? Be sure to zoom waaaay out on your painting every so often to see if the over all impression of the image is working for you.

    I can see that you are noticing some of the color changes well enough, but you aren't quite getting them to "pop". It's ok to over state some of them sometimes, as it will help to give the correct impression. Sometimes it is better to over state it, then bring it back to a more realistic level later. For example, on my apple study above, I over stated the greyish-pink color too much to get my point across. If I was to go back and keep working on it I'd probably warm it back up again some, especially at the shadow edge where I really could have (and should have) pushed it further to start with.
    I'm not sure I understand the last bit - overstate what exactly? The shadows/light/form to make it "pop"?

    Here's today's image, not as good as yesterday's since with today's image it was darker in the middle, and for some reason I can't paint it without making the middle look (physically?) flat, whereas in the picture you can see that the apple is really round a smooth.'

    Any advice?

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    Also, I have a crucial question about blocking in:

    When doing so, do I first lay in one universal colour over the entire object, and then lay in the lighter and darker colours to shape the form?

    Or pick the colours and tone individually from the apple in the picture and apply them over object individually? Hard to describe here, but the way I'm currently doing it is this method, where I pick one area of the apple (first usually the darkest), paint the darkest area on the apple drawing, then proceed to lighter, pick, paint, lighter, pick, paint, etc.

    Which method would be best?

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    Here's a better attempt at the same apple.

    Dweller and Jonish, I just want someone to confirm this for me, but if you use the same colour/tone/hue/whatever you call it for one entire area, it makes it look flat right? This is what I'm starting to suspect, but I usually need people to confirm it for me before I learn and move on.

    Thanks for all your help thus far.

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    Well done, I like the second one.You really should also think about hue changes, because changing those two other factors may cause it look flat. There are also rules like shadow should have a bit of opposite colour and a bit more of blue, but I'm not sure how much is it being used.

    But back to question, yes, you can block in some general colour first and then overpaint it by right, picked colours.

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    Here is another apple, and now it's time for me to go to bed, its nearly 1 am here in hong kong now at the time of this posting.

    I seem to have a better time with this apple as the model, don't know why :sigh:

    But still, will keep trying, since the previous apple I seem to be having a hard time with, I'll keep hacking away at it till I get it the colour and shape to be convincing.

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    Ok, I've identified the problem where I'm having the most problem with - I hope I'm getting my terminology right - it's areas of contrast in bright areas and dark areas. For example, if there's brighter hues and saturations and dark areas, I can't make the form correctly. Conversely is the same, with dark hues and saturations in light areas. I can't seem to get the form to be correct in these conditions.

    See the same 2 pictures of the apple I did previously, where is was flat in the dark area.

    This current one is a disaster I don't know why it sucks so much. I really need help on this one. How can I get it to appear round? By painting the strokes in a way to accentuate the shape of the apple? But that shouldn't matter, since if I recall hatchet shading a sphere in one direction that doesn't accentuate the curve of the sphere with the shadows will still give the illusion that it is round.

    Edit:

    Brushed up this version, it's slightly better now

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    Here's another one I just did, and this time I did it without ref, using the knowledge I gained. it's a bit dark, but it's my most successful one doing so without ref and from imagination, so far.

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    Hey guys, been following this thread (and even its predecessor) as a lurker for a while now, but decided to register to poke around a bit more! So finally I can say thanks a million for all the invaluable help from these threads

    While I'm here, do any of you experts have any advice or pointers regarding adding the finer details? I've got the hang of plain old blending just fine, but I occasionally struggle with the minutiae of the picture. Not so much things like specular highlights, but more so the intricate 'complexion' of certain objects, apples included. I'm mainly trying to improve my technique at texturing 3D objects so I find myself having to paint wood and metal surfaces a lot, and I find it really hard to make them look realistic because of the very fine nature of the details (a coarse wood grain, for example, or the slightly rough and uneven texture of metal.) I'm assuming that I might need to use more unusual brushes, but I'm at a loss without a little more direction. Anybody have any tips?

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    My apples last time came out like this..

    http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2791/applescq4.jpg

    But I want to learn to be more painterly, and to nail it in less than 30 minutes rather than working painfully slowly like I did with the other two above.. only problem is that I suck really bad, and then I get frustrated as hell.. I block it in quite poorly and can't seem to get any better at it, and then blending two different colours (say red and green) just sends me through the roof.. so here it is after 30 minutes..

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    this is my apple

    [/URL]

    Last edited by EKOes; February 23rd, 2008 at 09:18 PM.
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    See, the speckling effect on EKOes' apple is the kind of thing I mean. There's a texture to that apple which doesn't happen when you just blend constantly with a simple round brush. Am I right in assuming that you used a more 'scattered' brush for that, EKOes? Did you still blend with it, using a low opacity and sampling colours, or is it more of a final touch-up on high opacity settings?

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    Very inspiring thread, at least it helped me get into digital painting again, after some downtime. Cheers



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    Made myself do an apple tonight. I just sat down and jumped into it.

    After I finished I went away for a while, and then came back to it with fresh eyes. I realised I didn't pay enough attention to the values -- the reflections are darker than the background. Then I decided to flip it horizontally in PS, and it looked really wonky, so I flipped it back. Ugh.

    But I want to document my progress, so here it is anyway.



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    @ nennerpants: Therefore you must excuse my English, i'm Italian. I create the texture to them using different types of brushes with opacity pressure and intersecting the wefts, use the eraser in the not neccessary points for more randomness effect (set the eraser with different types of brushes), it then experiments with the dodge or burn without to exaggerate in order not to create the "burn color" effects.

    I hope to me it are explained.

    @ bumskee: My problem instead the choice of the just colors like tone and saturated, my apple is too much phosphorescent!

    @lingmerth: congrats for the patience! Very detailed bullet!

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    First try

    Hmm, I've never really done realistic still life before.. Anywho, heres my try. NO eyedrop coloring, all based off my eye and guessing..


    I'm 15 and would appreciate any comments

    I forgot to save the steps :B

    If the picture for some reason doesn't work, heres a link to my Flickr:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/howcant...en/2287180865/
    Cheers

    Oh yeah, I spent almost exactly 1 hour on it last night :B

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    Last edited by Aleksoid; February 24th, 2008 at 03:02 PM. Reason: update
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    onion

    i made an onion today..

    its best you follow the link, then you can see the process shots below the picture:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/howcant...en/2289800107/

    i attached it anyway, if you wanna see the process still go to Flickr...

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    Rabbisatan I think you are making really great progress. That last apple has a nice weight.

    Pau1Winslow nice work. My thought on mixing two colors, like red and green is that yes, it can sometimes be really easy to over blend or mix them and then end up with a muddy mess of the wrong color. My suggestion is to resist the urge to overly mix and blend them. Put them down how you see them and allow them to optically blend. For example, look at the impressionist painters you would put put yellow strokes next to blue ones to create the impression of green. In the case of an apple, the red parts spill into the green parts, and the green parts into the red parts and it starts to appear to be a new color (and sometimes there will be a light source adding even another color!). Sometimes mixing a color that approximates what is going on will work, and other times you need to put colors down side by side and trust it will all optically mix the way it should just like it does in on the object.

    Lingmerth VERY nicely done. You've captured the texture of the metal casing very well. My only crit is the inside of the casing seems too dark. With the lighting on the case I'd expect to be able to see light inside the top opening as well.

    some_guy, your apple seems dark to me, but that could be because of the white background it's painted against. Your highlights and shadows match up good, with a warm shadow being cast from a cooler backlight, and a cool shadow cast from a warmer front light. I'd expect to see one side getting more light though, and getting a little more variety in tones.

    Aleksoid great start for never having done realistic still lifes before! The apple and onion are both very nice starts. On the onion I'd say be very careful on using black for shadows, they are almost never that dark. I looked at your progress shots for the onion, and the biggest tip I'd throw out to you is to try not to place colors piecemeal next to each other. Start by covering the entire shape with one color (the color that seems to be the biggest over all color), then use a larger brush than what you are using to block in roughly the major colors (shadow color, highlight color, reflected lights etc). You're working with a brush that is too small for the early stages, and including details too early to help you. Simplify early on, then refine and add details later. This lets you get a better feel for the "big picture" early on when it's still easy to make changes.

    Last edited by J Wilson; February 25th, 2008 at 09:32 AM. Reason: fixed a couple typos
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    Here's my next apple, I think I've finally solved how to make dark and light patches sit well in accordance to the light and shadows. Please tell me if I'm mistaken

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    EKOes - Thanks, Your apple was nice as well, kind of looked like a water painting, although it's now

    The Dweller - Thank you for the comment. Actually I used a light source that was placed a bit lower than the object, so no light got in the top.

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    This is the crap I get when I try to block in... I go with the flow just dabbling over my sketch with blobs of colour that I see in the ref but it comes out looking like crap.. is there a better method anybody can offer to make better work out of this stage?

    http://www.epicurean.com/articles/im...reen-apple.gif

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    Pau1Winslow that looks REALLY solid to me. Given that's just blocking things in at that stage I think it has pretty much everything you'd want. I think from there if you wanted to finish it off you'd be perfectly fine. In my opinion I wouldn't change a lot at this stage, because you want things to be a bit more neutral in your blocking in stage because it gives you room to add in those spots of more intense color at the detail stage, without going over board with it.

    Where exactly do you feel it's lacking?

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    I just don't feel all too happy with it. It's not so bad now that I'm seeing it with fresher eyes but looking at the ref it's still way off.. and that's pretty much all I can do with it.. from there I don't have a clue what to do. I just find myself doing nothing to improve it.. yeah thinking about it that's what my problem is.. I don't feel that every stroke I lay down is adding something to the painting or taking the painting any closer to finished.. I find myself laying down a lot of strokes that aren't contributing to the apple but just making it look more presentable instead of a really crappy mess.. I want my every solitary stroke to have worth and to be actually contributing to the painting.. too much prodding at it just to make it look nicer before I post it here.

    Last edited by Pau1Winslow; February 25th, 2008 at 06:22 PM.
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