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  1. #1
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    Hello all. Newbie here!

    Heya folks.,.I finally worked up the courage to post here. I'm fairly new to this site, (but I've been lurking here for awhile now), and I'm astounded by the quality of work here, as well as the helpfulness and professionalism you all conduct yourselves with. I've been searching for a site like this for a long while now, one where fellow artists can rip apart my work and tell me what I need to improve on. I've recently felt my limits as an artist, and have become somewhat frustrated and unsatisfied with the work I put out. I think that I'm all right, but I want to be GREAT, but I have no idea what I need to work on. Here are some of my more (a few months ago)recent works:





    These were all taken via digital camera so excuse the shabby quality. One thing that I know I have trouble on is hands (argh!), so I'm still practicing, but if you have any critique, by all means, DON'T be gentle (I can take it)! I'd really like to hear what advice you all have to give me.

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    Hey Ether, first of all welcome to the community buddy. I am kinda new here too but I have been going to art school for a while now so I will do my best to help ya out. Alright dude, so here goes. First thing I will say is that you have a pretty good handle on value and making your solids feel like solids. You just need to watch it in some areas, make sure you are always checking your light source and watch what might be bouncing light back. Second, you may like it, and i agree there is some allure to it, but try to step away from the anime like style in face and body structure, it will get you in trouble as far as anatomy goes. 99.9% of anime is drawn wrong as far as anatomy goes, especially in the face. So pick up a few books if you dont already have them:

    Force by: Mike Mattesi

    Atlas of the Human Anatomy for the Artist by: Stephen Rogers Peck

    Also, check out this tutorial on shading:

    Speculars, Radiosity, etc.

    Study these books, if you have a class near you where you can take a drawing from a live figure, take it. Remember that drawing is a discipline and you only get better from doing it more.

    Other than that dude, your drawings arent half bad, you just need to get a grasp on anatomy and getting those proportions right. Keep up the good work. Peace.

    ~Josh

    Last edited by JoshOfAllTrades; September 26th, 2007 at 11:50 PM.
    "My other pen is a pencil"
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    Hey, thanks a lot, Josh! I really appreciate the critique. It's funny that you should mention the anime thing, cause I had a friend mention that to me a long time ago, and I've been trying to stray away from the style (at least for learning correct anatomy etc.) ever since. I've got some books by Burne Hogarth (on shading, anatomy, etc.), and by browsing the forums, picked up on Andrew Loomis. Looks it's back to the books; I've got a lot of practice ahead of me. I've bookmarked those links too for future reference.

    Thanks again!

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    draw a still life. Better yet, take an egg get a single light to illuminate it and draw that exactly as you see it in full value. Have about half of it in shade.

    the reason i say this is because you don't quite have a handle on haw 3d objects rotate in space. You know that they are curved and 3d but you haven't studied how light affects them exactly. Everyone needs to have this solid grounding in understanding of light and shade before they move onto things as complicated as the human form.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshOfAllTrades View Post
    Second, you may like it, and i agree there is some allure to it, but try to step away from the anime like style in face and body structure, it will get you in trouble as far as anatomy goes. 99.9% of anime is drawn wrong as far as anatomy goes, especially in the face.
    Just throwing in 1/50th of a dollar here. Most anime/manga isn't "drawn wrong", but a lot of it is highly stylized, simplified and (in some cases) exaggerated. The proportions and forms also often seem "off" to Western artists because they are based on very "non-Western" body types and source material. Good anime/manga art is just as valid as good realistic art or good Western comic art, and all of them draw on the same fundamental skills.

    Drawing in anime style won't in and of itself destroy your knowledge of or prevent you from learning how to draw the human figure, but you'll want to study a lot of real-world material to get the foundation of knowledge you need to make your drawings plausible.

    As such, if you are truly inspired by anime and manga, then don't throw away the style, just shore up your life drawing skills. Your anatomy, proportion and foreshortening need a good amount of work and study here. All of the drawings posted here have a kind of (fantasy-based) hobbit/dwarf aspect to them, with large heads, and very short torsos. Also, the length of arms and legs all seem very short.

    To bring your character study into focus, start by working on proportion. Study the landmarks of the body and how to determine if they measure up correctly. Once you've got a firm grasp of that, start working on visualizing basic forms in three dimensions. This will cause you to begin to understand foreshortening and perspective in the human figure. At the same time, start to study the details of human anatomy.

    Burne Hogarth's Dynamic Anatomy book is a good starting point, but it deals only with surface anatomy - you'll want to go a bit deeper if you truly want to render your figures accurately. Life drawing classes are, of course, your best option, as the more you draw a figure from life, the more you begin to intuitively understand its forms and proportions. Barring that, people-watch and pick up and study as much solid reference books/material as you can.

    With hard work, your drawings will improve. Best of luck, don't give up, and "ganbatte yo"!

    Last edited by Imagus; September 26th, 2007 at 11:26 AM.
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    oblivion -

    Thanks for the critique; I'll definitely take that into account. I guess I kinda forgot about all the knowledge I learned from drawing still-life in high school (which was a long time ago). I've never tried it since, but look like it'll become part of my daily routine now 'till it clicks.

    imagus -

    Definitely needed to hear that, man! I also didn't realize that Hogarth only touched on the surface of anatomy; that's really great to know, cause it's the only ref. material I had up 'till yesterday. Thanks for the constructive crit, man; I really appreciate it, and don't worry I won't give up!

    After seeing how skilled and hard-working all the people on this site are, I think I found the inspiration I need to turn it up a notch. BIG thanks, all of you.

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    hey your art is unique and i really like the poses. i feel you know how to draw the body well..

    one weakness of yours i could point out is their eyes.. they look a little disproportional and they just dont feel right.. if you could do some sketches on just eyes and get the jist of what you want them to look like, i think you could hit it.
    great job though on the body and their poses it adds alot to their characteristics.

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    I like it, especially your rendering and amount of details u put in. Agree with above posts about proportion that they a bit off and distort. You could use a little bit of photoshop to clean some line work as well and they could look better

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    Imagus, let me clarifty buddy. When I say that most anime is drawn wrong, I mean that is is highly stylized and if you are trying to LEARN to draw ANATOMY correctly, then you need to draw from life, not from something stylized, anime in this case. Many people try to learn to draw from looking at anime characters. The style does have many good tecchniques that can be put into use later, he needs to learn correct anatomy.

    The proportions and forms also often seem "off" to Western artists because they are based on very "non-Western" body types and source material. Good anime/manga art is just as valid as good realistic art or good Western comic art, and all of them draw on the same fundamental skills.
    Imagus, this statement couldnt be more wrong, i am sorry. All humans whether they may be from Canada or Korea have the EXACT same skelatal structure under that stuff you are seeing on the outside. Go to any art school and they will teach you to draw the same underlying gesture. Why you may ask? Because if i am 80 pounds or 250 pounds, the structure underneath all that fat and muscle is the exact same, and in some areas you will still see the same "hard surface forms" that one locates to make sure you are drawing your figure correctly.

    Drawing in anime style won't in and of itself destroy your knowledge of or prevent you from learning how to draw the human figure, but you'll want to study a lot of real-world material to get the foundation of knowledge you need to make your drawings plausible.
    Imagus, you even just said it here. He needs to learn his correct anatomy and proportions BEFORE he adds a "style" to his art. This is because all the greatest artists have practiced thier basics and mastered them, then added something special that was only them, but even then, they build upon those basic structures.

    For people who say his anatomy is correct, i am not trying to be mean, but that is incorrect. He has just started trying to get ahold of his technique, and it takes a long time to start to even begin to train your eye to see what you are drawing right. On top of that, to be honest, we never stop learning to draw the human form, there is always something new. Buddy, I agree that you have a good style going, but antomy and form comes first, style comes later. You are doing great, just keep working. Study, study, study, practice, practice, practice. Nobody is above that, not even the masters. Rock on. Peace.

    ~Josh

    p.s. I will post a example of how different the two are as far as head structure goes soon.

    Last edited by JoshOfAllTrades; September 27th, 2007 at 12:08 AM.
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    doodle and D thanks for the critique.

    I completely understand what you're saying josh, and I don't think you're being mean at all, just honest, and that's exactly what I'd hope for. No hard feelings here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshOfAllTrades View Post

    Imagus, this statement couldnt be more wrong, i am sorry. All humans whether they may be from Canada or Korea have the EXACT same skelatal structure under that stuff you are seeing on the outside. Go to any art school and they will teach you to draw the same underlying gesture. Why you may ask? Because if i am 80 pounds or 250 pounds, the structure underneath all that fat and muscle is the exact same, and in some areas you will still see the same "hard surface forms" that one locates to make sure you are drawing your figure correctly.
    This statement is actually incorrect. Depending on what part of the world you are from or if you are male or female or if your mom was a midget or.. or.. or.. or etc. you will have a different skeletal structure. The bones are the same but the proportions will be different. For example, I am of Irish heritage and am 5'10 and 8 heads tall as is my German and Welsh friend, However my Korean teacher who is 6' 2" is only about 6.5 heads tall. he is taller then both of us but has a huge head and shorter legs then compared to an 8 head person of that height. The ideal proportions you are taught in art school where invented by the Greeks. The Greeks where very obsessed with themselves and perfection of their bodies so in their art they developed the look of the perfect body. However the only drastically different looking cultures they would have had contact with at the time where Egypt and Persia, whose proportions would be similar. We must also remember, however, that the Greeks where very xenophobic. They hated nongreeks and would have completely ignored any other culture when coming up with the ideal proportion. Take a look at Stephen Peck's Anatomy for the Artist to see detailed explanations of differences in cultural skeletons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetoblivion314 View Post
    This statement is actually incorrect. Depending on what part of the world you are from or if you are male or female or if your mom was a midget or.. or.. or.. or etc. you will have a different skeletal structure. The bones are the same but the proportions will be different. For example, I am of Irish heritage and am 5'10 and 8 heads tall as is my German and Welsh friend, However my Korean teacher who is 6' 2" is only about 6.5 heads tall. he is taller then both of us but has a huge head and shorter legs then compared to an 8 head person of that height. The ideal proportions you are taught in art school where invented by the Greeks. The Greeks where very obsessed with themselves and perfection of their bodies so in their art they developed the look of the perfect body. However the only drastically different looking cultures they would have had contact with at the time where Egypt and Persia, whose proportions would be similar. We must also remember, however, that the Greeks where very xenophobic. They hated nongreeks and would have completely ignored any other culture when coming up with the ideal proportion. Take a look at Stephen Peck's Anatomy for the Artist to see detailed explanations of differences in cultural skeletons.

    You are right oblivion. The skeletal structure will be the teeniest bit different. What I was takling about though is that anime is not based off of true proportions that are ever seen in real life. Even if it is from another culture, the japanese dont look like their caricatures, which is essentially what anime is, a charicature from the japanese culture. But thanks for correcting me Oblivian, sorry for the misunderstanding. Peace.

    ~Josh

    "My other pen is a pencil"
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshOfAllTrades View Post
    You are right oblivion. The skeletal structure will be the teeniest bit different. What I was takling about though is that anime is not based off of true proportions that are ever seen in real life. Even if it is from another culture, the japanese dont look like their caricatures, which is essentially what anime is, a charicature from the japanese culture. But thanks for correcting me Oblivian, sorry for the misunderstanding. Peace.

    ~Josh
    I was never saying that you should study anime characters to learn anatomy, Josh. What I was commenting on was the abandoning of the style in favor of realism which, though possibly unintentional, is the message that came across. That is, in fact, why I pointed out exactly what you (re)stated in your response. Anime is highly stylized and simplified, and you should study real-world anatomy to develop the knowledge necessary to draw this style correctly. Believe it or not, we're on the same page, you and I. I've just heard the "anime isn't real art" argument one (thousand) too many times.

    As to forms looking odd, I'm referring to height ratios, and especially facial structure. I am very well aware that the basic mechanisms and forms of the body work the same regardless of who you are or where you come from - that's basic knowledge. But the fact is that anime's style is derived, in part, from asian stature and facial features. If you learn life drawing in Japan vs. in the U.S. or the UK, your sense of proportion and facial feature tendencies will be divergent, even with a thorough knowledge of human anatomy. This is part of the reason many Western artists do not like the aesthetics of anime-style art.

    I stand by my advice, which you have supported in your response. Study real-world anatomy to understand the figure, and obviously sketch the figure life studies realistically/representationally, but do not "step away from the anime like style in face and body structure" - instead, use what you learn with your realistic drawings to improve your stylized anime drawings.

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    Alright sweet Imagus. I am glad we are on the same page dude. I apologize for reading your responce wrong and I am glad that it was just a miscommunication on both ends. Sounds like you know your sh*t dude. Lets keep on keepin' on and continue to help this fellah. Thanks again and glad we could both add something to this thread. Peace.

    ~Josh

    "My other pen is a pencil"
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