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  1. #1
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    Woman (nudity) need crits

    I"ve been working on this sculpt for a week now and I think I've been looking at it too long. I want this to be the best it can, so please dont hold back your crits. I want as many fresh eyes as possible. That being said let me explain the sculp.(sorry so wordy)

    I'm gona make bronze copies to sell so I'want perfection. She will be nude and bird will be landing on her finger (a cockatiel) the base will be a crazy rock formation. I also will add tons of detail.

    This will be my first bronze, so if any one has any pointers of any kind, I would realy appresiate them. Thanks


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  3. #2
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    First I'd like to know what kind of woman are you going for, athletic, normal, shabby, etc?.

    Given that she's has a little bit more weight than the average woman, the arms look a little bit too muscular IMO. I would almost say that in the back shot the body looks Masculine. Maybe she has her deltoids too pronounced for a woman.

    My two cents

  4. #3
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    well i'm going for an average build but sexy look. I'm gona slim her up abit. specialy the arms. I'll post changes as I go.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavoX View Post
    First I'd like to know what kind of woman are you going for, athletic, normal, shabby, etc?.

    Given that she's has a little bit more weight than the average woman
    You're male aren't you? The average woman isn't skinny, thank goodness.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with her weight, anatomy could be better but this is good practice. Her boobs look unnatural and too round, like implants. The face could use some work too, maybe make the eyes and cheeks a bit more subtle.. overall this ain't bad
    Don't slim her up too much ey!!!
    X

  6. #5
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    Looks like you got skills.
    I think if you just pick the characteristics you desire in a body, there´s a risk the piece will get infected and end up showing not a real body, but a fantasy one.
    For example combining heavy breasts and wide strong shoulders with a thin waist might be tough to make believable and it will show through that the artist got infected by his personal judgements when the actual intent was to make something "real".

    just some translated thoughts on this, I hope I make myself clear and that I don´t cause any bad feelings

    got nothing more to say other than good luck with your challenge!

  7. #6
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    Something seems to be wrong with the skeletton, especially with the pelvis and the ribcage. They seem to be a bit displaced in relation to eachother. I might be wrong though, 'cause it's hard to tell.
    Also I find it a bit strange, that the Pelvis is showing, because to me the sculpture looks more like one of those Rokoko style "soft" women.
    I think her left knee area is a bit thin, too

    OK, I did a small overpaint with paint and I found a picture of a woman the type I think you are going for.
    1. I think the ribcage is missing a bit
    2. Make the breasts less round, specially on the sides
    3. I think there should be a little dent here
    4. The pelvis shouldn't be showing here.

  8. #7
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    I agree with Cat about the face...her eyes look too....anime-like...not as real as they could. Check your proportions....should be an eye's width between them.

    Her breasts don't seems to have any weight to them...as if there is no gravity. I disagree with Cepro's comment about her pelvis....and I could probably find some pics to support it if I had time (I don't) but lastly...try to get her hair to look less like a mop slung on top of her head...but I'm guessing you will since it's not done yet

    Oh...just noticed...her feet seem really small....almost too small.

    Keep working on it....it seems to be coming along good.

  9. #8
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    I appreciate your responses, its great to get feed back from others.

    Crepo : Thanx for the paint over and photo. That is the type of form I'm trying to achieve. I've looked at some refrence of this similar pose and in that ref the pelvic bone shows. Maby not as prominent as my sculpt but its there. Last night I did most of the chancges you recomened but it was 3am so I did'nt take pictures. I'll post some pics tonight. Great ref Thanks

    Penabled: Yes The face was bothering the crap out of me. I got too exited and did'nt do enough concept and reaserch. So last night I removed the face and I will make a new one tonight. Also I'm not gona leave her hair that way it will look better. I'm not sure about her feet, I'll look into it.

    Orm: yes I agree about the shoulders, I slimed her up some last night, I'm posting pics tonight so you can tell me what you think. But yes I'm alowing my personal judgement to influence the piece alittle. Just enough to give it my flavor.

  10. #9
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    The pelvis usually shows on most women, even the softer ones. The thing is it really catches the eye on this sculpt, because everything else is smooth. At least that is what I think. I'm of course not suggesting that you remove the pelvis, but I'd make it less prominent (as you already said).
    By the way, what material it it?

  11. #10
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    I'm using supper sculpy

  12. #11
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    Well I did a ton of work to this piece and it's just not doin it for me. My huge mistake was to get too exited and not do enoght concept work. I'm gona start over. so here are afew pics so you can see what I mean. Now I'm gona concentrate on the desing and have a real plan before I eaven touch clay. Thanks for all your help. It whas realy usefull. This was a great lesson.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by misael View Post
    My huge mistake was to get too exited and not do enoght concept work.
    Welcome to the club; we have jackets. Usually, if a sculpt goes south on me, I have exactly the same thing to blame.

    Quote Originally Posted by misael View Post
    I'm gona start over. so here are afew pics so you can see what I mean.
    Well, I think the piece is definitely salvagable, but I won't try and talk you out of abandoning. If it's not working for you, by all means, start over. I've done the same thing numerous times, but keep posting pictures of your work I think it's only a matter of time before we see some fantastic stuff out of you.

  14. #13
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    jlamarche: thanks for those words of encouragement. I'm currantly working on the remake and I'll post those pics soon.

  15. #14
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    Hey, I think you had a good start. I'm sure your next go will be great. And to whoever said she looked heavier than the average woman... Have you ever seen an average woman?!
    "Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

  16. #15
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    Very good work. I think it's the simplified, sausage-like fingers that let it down the most. I would also think about the treatment of the hair, whch looks like mincemeat at the minute. The locks look much too tubelike. The eyebrows and eyelids also look too rounded, as though made from rolled out plastacine and stuck on witout much further shaping.

    The face may also be a bit too flat/wide, and there is a doll-like or cartoonish quality to the whole thing which isn't intentional by the sound of it. It sounds like you aspire to sensual classicism. For future inspiration, I would suggest looking closely at some sculptures by Canova ( http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/art.asp?aid=553 especially
    http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/databa...e.asp?id=13353 )
    and by Rhodin, and taking note of the refinements which give their statues their elegance. Maybe also look at Bouguereau's paintings.

    Aside from that I suggest making the limbs slightly longer, and the hands and faces more delicate and the cheeks less chubby. The face needs to be longer and the nose to stick out more. Resist the temptation to make the breasts too big and the waste too narrow, too, and give the poor dear some nipples.
    Last edited by dashinvaine; September 11th, 2007 at 08:12 AM.

  17. #16
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    Don't be scared of nipples. There's nothing "lewd" about them and they keep your breasts from looking like unnatural barbie-doll implants. They're also very helpful for determining the overall shape and direction of the boobs, so they look more like boobs and less like spheres. Even if you want to cover them with clothing later, they're still helpful.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaete View Post
    Don't be scared of nipples. There's nothing "lewd" about them and they keep your breasts from looking like unnatural barbie-doll implants.

    I agree with you about nipples not being "lewd". But I actually don't put nipples on during the earlier stages of sculpting and it has nothing to do with being scared of them. I don't know if the OP's reasons are the same as mine, but for me, I actually find that putting a nipple on before I get the main mass shaped right gets in the way of getting them right. After I put the clay on for the breast, I tend to do a lot of raking of the clay of the upper breast in order to impart a more natural shape (which has a much greater impact on keeping them from looking like barbie-doll implants than the presence of a nipple). Frankly, early on nipples just get in the way, especially when making smaller breasts where the nipple is placed higher.

    Once I think I've got the shape right, and I've done initial smoothing on the mass of the breast, then I'll place a rough nipple as a check, but then I often remove it again during smoothing and put it back when I'm ready to do detail and texturing, at which point I'll place the nipple as well as any related texturing I'm doing such as a secondary papilla, montgomery glands, or any crinkling of the erectile tissue of the areola.

    As a result, my WIP shots of female figures almost never have a nipple unless it's a very late-stage piece, and that has absolutely nothing to do with me thinking that they are obscene. On the contrary, I find nothing about the human body obscene and always do anatomy studies — male or female — anatomically correct and fully detailed. The lack of nipples is just a side-effect of the way I work, and it could very well be the same for the OP.

    Don't assume you know why another artist does something, because we all have our own quirks and techniques.

  19. #18
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    These pics are WIPs and thats why it has sausage fingers, bloby face and no nipples. I have restarted this sculpt using a new armature and diferent clay. So I'll post some pics up tonight for crits. I apreciate all the crits and advice its tons of help. This forum rocks!

  20. #19
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    New stuff

    Ok I've been working on this redo, and now I need people to crit this stage before I go on to the hair and more polish.

  21. #20
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    It looks very nice.
    The shoulders seem a bit broad to me. Also are you going for a realistic face? Because the eyes and the mouth seem a bit big to me. And the Eyebrows look glued on. But if you did that on purpose, that's ok of course..

  22. #21
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    well yes I do want it realistic. So last night I re did the eyes and the mouth. Also I'm wondering if any one has tips on smoothing out the figure. What technique is there other than just a brush and solvent. If their is one. As for the shoulders, maby ill narrow them abit.

  23. #22
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    i liked the early version more even that newer torso is much more realistic but thats just my silly opinion, watching all of thes clay stuff makes me want buy clay and do some really wicked shit

  24. #23
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    the nipples are in the wrong place unless she has implants. breast hang around the ribcage which is round so the nipple don't point straight out they point out to the side. Depending on how large the breast is it could be anywhere from 10 degrees to 45 degrees off center. On your sculpture it would be closer to 30-35 degrees i would think.

  25. #24
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    To be honest, I like the first version better...I like women a bit plump. As for the second attempt, the body seems to be more realistic. However, the head looks way too big. Sorry but that's the way I see.

  26. #25
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    Hey Misael! First let me say that overall you're doing really well and the fact that you're
    keeping at it is extremely admirable. The only advice I'd like to pass on is, wrap this sculpt
    up and move on. NOTHING will help your skill level as much as constantly sculpting, and
    more often than not, that means moving on to new pieces as quickly as you possibly can.
    Believe me, even if you get this sculpt to a point where you're EXTREMELY happy, in a year
    you'll hate it and think, "Good lord, how did I think that was good?"

    Right now, it seems that you're too focused on making this "just right". You even mentioned
    in your original post that you wanted "perfection". Forget perfection. Just get it finished as
    soon as possible and move on to your next piece. That doesn't mean you have to do something
    you're not proud of, but the longer you stay on this one particular sculpt, the longer it will
    take for your overall skill level to improve.

    As far as C&C on the current sculpt goes, between the current and the original sculpt,
    I think the original had a much nicer flow to it. Her posture in the new piece is much
    more rigid and just not as appealing, and I would definitely bring her head size down some.

    Keep in mind, that everything I've said here is really just my personal opinion based on
    my own work, so please, take it with a grain of salt. I look forward to seeing more updates.
    Troy

    http://www.themcdevittstudio.com
    --------------------------------------------------
    "It seems like once people grow up, they have no idea what's cool." - Calvin, Attack of the Deranged Mutant Killer Monster Snow Goons

  27. #26
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    TroyBoy: Fisrt let me say that youre work is one of the reasons I started sculpting. I'm A general artist. Ive worked in many medias and Have been stuck in the computer art thing too long. I saw your work here and several others and "ping" I got the idea to start sculpting. So I'm grateful to have you crtique my work. Ok enogh ass-kissing. I'm teking your advice and finishing the pice this weekend and making a mold to cast a resin or wax piece. Sortof a mold makingcrash courese.

    It seems most people like the first sculpt better. Since I want to sell these eventualy, I would like to get peoples opinions on them. Ill finish both before I get stared with the mold.

  28. #27
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    Ok, so I made some changes and I'm just about finished. I'm still gona add long hair and polish the sculpture alot. But this is prety close to final. Ijust need coments and crits. Thanks.

  29. #28
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    Hmmmm. The latest version certainly has a more "natural" feel to it. However, I think that the first version was filled with a vibrancy of movement that has been lost. I like the bulkiness of the first version. I think that it is a truer representation of the "normal" female form, not so idealized. I think that it actually conveyed a feeling that was more true to the idea of the piece, adding "weight" to the emotion of it. I thought the hair was absolutely awesome!

    However, I am also VERY interested in seeing how you push this further, and the end result of this version. When this version is done, I would LOVE to see the first version finished also. Keep up the awesome work!
    Honest, I don't try to be an asshole, it just happens!

    http://evildragonfire.blogspot.com

  30. #29
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    It's kinda fun watching somebody else struggle through this process of learning; helps me realize I'm not the only one going through this process.

    It's interesting - you definitely have made strides on this piece, but I agree with the earlier poster that the first version had more energy and felt sort of more "real" even though the features were less realistic and the anatomy wasn't as strong.

    The thing I notice first, which is something that happens to me at times, is the face has flattened out as you've worked it. I think your earlier versions had good draft in the face, but I'm guessing as you worked the details, you lost some of it. The overall face is too flat, as are the lips and the eyes, even though the face has gained a more realistic shape and proportion.

    Are you using photo reference? I think the bent knee is a little off. The patella, I believe, doesn't protrude that much when the knee is bent at that angle, and I think it's a little wider in comparison to the width of the leg in general, but I'm not 100% sure of this, since I don't have a handy reference with the leg in that pose.

    Other than that, just keep going, you're making great progress and should feel good about it.

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    It's definitely looking great! Keep it up!

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