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  1. #1
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    How about some C+C?

    Hey gang!

    I've been pondering this pen and ink illustration for some time now and I'm just not happy with where it is going and I was hoping a couple of new eyes with some fresh perspective could assist me? Please take a look and I'd appreciate any C+C you can offer.

    Thanks.

    Basically this character is sitting alone in a cabin. He's just been jilted by his lover and wakes up to hear her dear john confession on the handy dandy reel to reel. He's smoking his cigar and brooding...

    The first more detailed one is the primary idea but I'm not convinced... Any input? What about composition? It's supposed to be in viniette ala Joseph Clement Cole.

    the 2nd one is a small thumbail of an alternate version of this idea.

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  3. #2
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    The impression I get from hime is that the way his left shoulder is positioned makes it look like he is twisting the top half of his torso which makes it look like he is about to get up. Also, drawing in the border of the room, or otherwise making some kind of solid ground would help this.
    Other than that, I have to say, I dig the retro feel to this. Very nice.

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    mgs3 inpired?

    looks cool, and i like your lines. The main problem that jumped out at me was the background being to high up, especially when the perspective on the box infront of him is so visible. Try contructing up a grid down to the floor and seeing if you can line it up a bit better (might just need to be lowered a bit).

    i think there's something wrong with his shoulders and torso also, more indication of the way his torso is facing would help.

    good luck with, it would be cool to see the lines done up even tighter, you've definitley got skill with pen and ink

    cheers,
    chris

    Ninja code forbid me to use door

    NEW SKETCHBOOK!!!

    i can haz folio wip: WEBSITE
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  5. #4
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    Hmm... interesting problem. How to make sound coming out of a reel-to-reel recorder dramatic. Guess you really have to have the guy do all the expression. The lighting...

    In the larger illo, we have the reel to reel there in the FG and they guy is hanging back.... No much to go on. The reels don't look like they're moving. They can't be, and even if you tried to do some radial blur on the reels to get that blurry action feel, it still wouldn't do much for you. The real deal has to come from the guy and how his body language says he listening.

    So... drama... This guy is listening. Looks wayyy too relaxed. Relaxed listening is not what makes a good illustration, unless you're selling radios in an ad.

    I like the moody dark mystery in the second one. Looks just like one of Frazetta's came the dawn pics.

    Maybe if the guy had an ear cocked to the recorder? Still not enough drama....

    So I did a quickie sketch of a composition... Guy leans forward to listen (instead of hanging back)... Turns to look into another room ... Where there is a GUN HANGING OVER THE MANTEL PIECE!*

    kev

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    i think the second thumb gives better mood. agree with kev on the relying on the guy's expression, reaction to create the drame of listening to a ex's message. but on kev's quickie, i think the guy sort of lost the contemplating/ brooding/ flashback moment's feel, and too much intensity in listening to every sound of the reel, like a spy movie or a look-out scene or something, may i suggest looking at your second thumb, maybe flip the reel-to-reel and the guy around and hav the free hand pressing on the play button? in that way his expression can also work as a secondary clue as to how his reaction might be, to achieve what you want with his mood? that way he doesnt have to stare at the machine and can even look down or away and we still get the hint that he's listening and retain the contemplative mood?

    another thing maybe an alternative angle of viewing? maybe the camera at a lower angle and a more dramatised perspective? so that the reel-to-reel is enlarged/exagerated in the foreground while the guy's looks like its looming over it... just some of my thought and imagery in my head with no quickie to substaintiate, kev's being a pro comic artist would know better on these things.

    and kev's gun hint... he'll hav to suffer something really bad from his ex, maybe she left bcos of the eye-patch?

    Last edited by zenichi; August 18th, 2007 at 09:27 AM.
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    Here's a slightly more brooding version... The main point being that there must be some connection established between the guy and the listening device...

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  8. #7
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    Here's your first picture, just trying to tie everything together with lighting....

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    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

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  9. #8
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    Wow, what a response and so soon! thanks eveybody for pitching in here to help me out. So I read all the feedback and in my mind it appears to be either a compositional thing or a minor tinkering thing... Which one? Hmm....

    I sat down and did a few quick thumbnails trying to revisit the comoposition.
    #1: Hunched the character over and tried to concentrate on his brooding over the contents of the tape. I put a few more props into the situation to perhaps add some more depth. Like an ashtray full of smoked cigars and a liquor bottle with an empty shot glass. The idea being that he has spent hours re listening to the contents of the tape. Pouring over every second trying to digest all of it's content and meaning. Listening this tape changes his life so it's important to the story.

    #2: Why not go for a still life and do something a little different? Focus on the contents of scene. We still have the basic story elements. The tape and reel to reel. The ashtray, And now I've added the photograph with lipstick marks and a handwritten goodbye. Character is in the back ground, maybe he's been pacing for hours? maybe I could frame it with dramatic light?

    #3: Just a still life only. A Vertical composition. Trying to push #2 even further.

    Or... I could ( and maybe should) go to kev ferrara's last image where he generously combined all of your advice for me. My wife likes this one best and the pro is that it will not take much more work on my part and it just refines the illustration that I have already worked up to this point.
    Or... I could redo the whole thing! I don't have a deadline and I can agonize over this baby forever until I go INSANE! I'm afraid I'll fall into the trap where I can keep reworkign this endlessly..

    What do you guys think? Essentially this is just a learning excercise so no pressure except that which I place upon myself. Mind... Reeling... From the... possibilities!

    Once again Many thanks!


    lemming-clone-:Thanks man. i've looked at this for a while and you know sometimes you get so close to the image that you can't look at it objectively. That's why I appreciate your input and fresh perspective. He's intended to be slouching and sitting low and forward in his chair with his right arm hooked over the back. I'll have to think about this.....

    Nizza_waaarg: You Got it! MGS3 indeed. I didn't want to just come out and say it b/c so many people know and love the series and I thought I'd try get as much of an objective response as possible. But yeah, it's the scene at the end where Snake wakes up to find that he's been dumped and teh whole plot / story is explained to him and us. Thanks and I agree with the background. It will be attended to. Stay tuned and I'll post some updates until this baby is resolved.

    kev ferrara: Thank you for input and sketches / draw overs! It's much appreciated. I took a look at your sketch thread ( Bookmarked) and it appears that you are the guy to go to when it comes to pen and ink work. Excellent stuff! After reading your posts, I though maybe it WAS a compositional thing and maybe I should revisit it. So I did in the included attachment. I'm attempting to look at it again from a fresh perspective and focus on Story & illustration. Thanks again!

    zenichi: Thanks for the post! You combined with Kev have given me much to think about. I incorporates some of what you suggested in the one thumbnail and I'm still pondering...

    Also, i've included a finished piece of a portrait of the character Revolver Ocelot just to indicate the type of finish that I'm going for.

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  10. #9
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    Get it done, move on to the next composition. One of the best learning experiences in the world is finishing a work of art.

    Best,
    kev

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
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  11. #10
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    notice the smoke from the man's cig in kev's paintover, gives dynamism (something moving vs. slow rotating of reel, which is as good as static in drawing), pace(indicate passing of time, as if you are looking at an animated pic, movie vs a static pic) , litghness (well...) and atmosphere (man holding cig motionless, deep in thought for at least in the pass few moments) in an otherwise static (contemplating) composition! brilliant! as for your decision, well choose which ever path you decide and completing them gives different revelation i guess, so good luck!

    on the R. oncelot character, the etching type stroke seems to enhance the farbic elements, gun and gloves (? or is it hand in shadow?) but doesnt seems to be doing that for the face and hand? the stroke seems to achive a lot more for the other elements, but the face and hands seems to have lost their defination and form, to be more specific, the nose, upper lips and finger's shadow's stroke doesnt seems to achieve either enhancing their form (like the fabrics) or create contrasting effect from clothing that its a different texture, elements or something... sorry stuck too, good luck in figuring out!

    i've learn much from your post as well as c&c from others on this thread.thanks for sharing!

    side note: whenever i type F-A-G in this forum, it will be changed into mankeymankeymankey in this forum, so i've substituted it with cig-shortform for cigarette. thanks to conceptart, now i now i realise there's another meaning for F-A-G!!! )

    Last edited by zenichi; August 19th, 2007 at 10:58 AM.
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  12. #11
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    Right, Get back to work, wrap it up, move on. Stand by for an update within the week.

    Thanks Again!

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    You've probably got all the ideas you need at this point.

    However, one other angle to approach this one from is the narrative angle. For example, can we tell by his actions and expression what he's about to do even before he realizes it? Maybe we shouldn't know at this point, but foreshadowing is always a useful device. In the attached sketches I made him look psychotic, which doesn't seem to be what you were going for, but the use of a definite emotional response is that it helps the reader peg the character. When I see a jilted lover who has an eyepatch and is brooding, but doesnt appear deeply disturbed, it doesnt ring true to me. If you mean him to internalize his angst, I think he should exhibit some sort of emotional tell that all is not right but he's going to pretend it is anyway. Or perhaps he's the kind of guy who loves em and leaves em, and is only really mad because he got left first.

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  14. #13
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    Some observations on Crostar's post on the "narrative" (?!?!) angle...

    Guys with eye patches take shit in stride.

    Planning a murder requires some contemplation.

    Psychotic people can't use old-style tape recorders because they eat the reels.

    Also.. any girl who would date a psychotic won't know how to use audio equipment.

    People who are in a psychotic state of mind rarely sit still to listen to audio recordings.

    Seeing a psychotic listening to a reel to reel tape of his lover ending their relationship is hilarious!!!



    kev

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    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
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    I'm not actually proposing that the fellow be psychotic, but I am proposing that I know what he is, what he's going to do.
    Well, think about it this way: planning a murder could take thought, or it could be a spur of the moment thing. But if you're going to do it, there's got to be a sort of reaction when the idea comes to you. I just don't believe that anybody takes everything in stride, except maybe Arnold. Maybe this guy is Arnold. But then again, who would cheat on Arnold? The very fact that he can be cheated on is in some sense a sign of his limitations as a human being, if not as a lover, then of the personal sense of invincibility that most people carry about with them until crap happens.

    But if this guy is the sort who takes shit in stride, does that mean he just never breaks down? Does he just sorta listen to the tape, cigar in hand, the gentle aroma of smoke filling the air as he listens to her talk about how great sex is with Mr. B, and how "The one eyed wonder's" sweater smelled of seaweed and ash, and when it's finished does he chuck the stub and utter under his breath "bitch" and then get stone drunk and wake up in a gutter somewhere in Malaysia? Or does he listen to the tape, his disbelief succumbing to a seething anger. Right there, does he swear to the God of the Green Earth that she'll be a skin purse for some strange African tribe by nightfall? Or does he just placidly listen to the tape and at the end of it all say
    "I thought she liked eyepatches."
    I mean, I'm not suggesting that there's one right reaction for the guy, just that I need to understand, as a viewer, why he's thinking what he's thinking.

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    The thing with all of your ithumbnails is you keep going back and forth between what your emphasis is. Do you want to focas on the character's reaction to the tape or the actual tape player itself? I think if you pic one then you could much better get a few more specific thumbnails and go to a completed image.

    Also if you want a hatched type image there are two people i would highly recoomend looking at. The first is Gustave Dore. While he is not a ink illustrator his final images look like ink illustrations because he did wood block printing. Ink hatching really comes from this originating printing process. The other is Franklin Booth. Due to ignorance he basically turned the block printing style into pen and ink hatching style. Both amazing illustrators.

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  17. #16
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    I don't see how "listening psychotically" won't be simply comical. Its melodrama at best. At worst out and out hilarious.

    Crostar, you are thinking literally and not metaphorically. The design is the metaphor. This includes lighting and gesture and element placement and edge textures and light/dark balance and how the eye is led, everything artists have at their aesthetic disposal.

    When it comes to real emotion, rather than battle rage, say, understatement is always more effective than the alternatives. Less is more. When you start telling too much, there's no mystery and the viewer quickly becomes bored. I see a psychotic dude sitting listening to a tape, I'm thinking he's listening to Helter Skelter backwards, hearing commands from the Devil to murder a Beatle.

    With the proper amount of mystery, the viewer is given an opportunity to sink into the story and ponder what the character is thinking, to get involved.

    The opposite is Melodrama.. outsized emotion by the character, but minimal emotional involvement on the part of the audience. Becomes, again, either boring or funny.

    But then we can always add more explanation so we understand exactly what the psychotic reaction is all about...

    Do you want Patchman holding a lipstick-smacked love letter with tears streaming down his face too? Do you want the bouquet of wilted flowers with the card that says "return to sender" to accompany his psychotic facial contortion.

    That's just too much "telling", too textual. Might as well have a blaring newspaper headline that reads "Girl Jilts Man with Patch!"

    This is an illustration.. think metaphor and image, not textual explanation and ham acting.

    Facial expressions, as Harvey Dunn teaches us, are incidentals... small change. The picture as a whole must demonstrate the expression... The idea must be a pictorial one, graphic in nature.

    Facial expressions are not graphic. Silhouettes are.

    Looking through the Illustration House catalogs, you can find scores of "face" pictures, where the artist is attempting to tell the entire story in the face. Ther're are all considered Kitsch now, even those done by the great Al Parker.

    kev

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  18. #17
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    Again, I didn't say psychotic was the only way to go. In fact I specifically said in my first post that I thought it wasn't the way Wheeljack probably wanted to go. The reason I brought it up is because it is a definite direction for the following action to take. This whole debate exists because I feel like there is no planned course for the character to take after this illustration.
    Why is that a problem?
    Well, what's really interesting about this scene?
    Is it the character himself, the physical way the tape reel looks? Is it the dramatic lighting?
    I can dramatically light a pencil, but that doesn't make it interesting.
    I think you've got to look at the piece as a story, or you lose it's connection to the audience. Rather, one never forms. If formal devices are a metaphor, what are they a metaphor for? Isn't the human face a potential metaphor for action itself?
    This is a really difficult take to draw, because you've got to know who the character is. Believe me, that's not cheesy, that's not boring, unless the character himself is boring. What's more boring, though, than a reaction that doesn't seem to come from a real human being?


    I think that statements like "less is more" are not axioms but good ways to cut away a lot of the crap that necessarily gets shoved in art as part of the process of creation. But when I look at the first picture, I don't see a definite reaction on the face. It's a good drawing, it's a nice composition, and all the corrections proposed will make it even better, but I still see a guy who is not engaging in his own drama. Or maybe contemplation with undertones of revenge is just a really hard mood to capture. I know I had trouble with it in my drawing.


    My attachment is a really simple sketch that illustrates a slightly more intimate interaction between the character and the news he is receiving. Basically it's a giant head, and no, I'm not suggesting that this be the actual design, I'm just focusing in on what I think COULD be the key element. Yes, there are non-facial tells. Here, we have a very understated expression, that is not psychotic, but presents a sort of chap who is somewhere between two poles. It's not a perfect illustration, but I am attempting to show how you can have two conflicting emotions and how that can produce tension and ambiguity of a different sort than if we simply don't know how to read the face. And if you can't read the face in my picture, ignore my illustration.

    Again, this is just one idea out of what could be millions of possible reactions.

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    Really nice linework, Wheeljack18. I really dig the pics from posts 6 & 8 .

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  20. #19
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    Wow! We are having quite the discussion and I am absorbing all of it. Thanks to everybody for chiming in. I agree with less is more, and I am also pondering a quote by Mr Norman Rockwell " If you get the head and hands right, your audience will forgive you for anything else". Hmm..... I've got a book on Booth somewhere but I fear it's packed up underneath a monument of cardboard. Thanks be to the good ol internet, I'll revisit him and Dore and see what comes of it. Thanks for the tip.

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    The Rockwell quote is about drawing, not about conception and design. Although its related.

    Less is more is very related to art in that art requires poetic concision in order to allow participation in the work. Not just with respect to narrative/story, but also with respect to "too many lines", "too much detail" and all that. Where there is too much to look at, detail becomes the point of the work. Where too much narrative information is being offered, the point of the picture is to explain the picture, which is not good art. Engagement visually, leads to engagment emotionally. In an emotional work, as this one seems to be, the visual engagement must lead to the emotional one.

    The qualities of an artist's poeticizations are what characterize his true style. (Rather than manga type stylizations, for instance)

    In terms of "no planned course" I think the first illo by Wheeljack says almost all that is needed. A guy moodily listening to a tape recording. Beyond that only one other piece of information might offer additional light. 1) What is on the recording.

    In order for audience to *specifically* know what is on the tape, we need some kind of writing. A letter that ends in "sorry", the word just readable to us as the letter unfurls over the side of the table. Or the tape box cover, with something written on it.

    But that's telling a bit much. Again, might as well have the newspaper read "Girl jilts man with patch!"

    The only graphic way to convey the information, it seems to me is to encorporate the information into the scene visually, without resorting to text.

    kev

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    Lovely touch with the tear.
    Here's the very last thing I'm going to do for this post. Very sloppy/outline drawing, but it conveys what I define as "narrative"

    We know what happened. We know what might happen. We can see how it happened. The drama is the resistance against the inevitability of what is about to happen. The conclusion is unformed, but still seems irresistable if this drunken fellow can form the fatal conclusion.
    Himself or his rival? Or maybe his lover?
    That's the poetry.
    Now I wont deny the cheesiness and the cliche. But this is a guy with an eyepatch. We already know he doesnt break down and cry and we already know he's not crazy.

    I'm still not suggesting this be the final solution. So many possibilities available, but if you add the concept of narrative into the mix it can still be ambiguous, and it can become gripping.

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    Crostar, we only appreciate the drama "the resistance against the inevitable" if we *know* what that inevitable something is. (And then of course the various tensions of the piece have to convey that drama). Your illustration looks like some lonely guy about to shoot himself. The drama is whether he will kill himself or not.

    This is because the lack of emphasis on the recording device has caused a loss of focus in your picture. We now have no idea whether the recorder means the same as the beer or the table or the gun or anything. Too much information and all of it given the same level of narrative equivalency.

    Although I like your portrait of the guy's face. He really has a crazed desperate look. Nice.

    kev

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
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    You have no idea how much I'm enjoying witnessing this discussion and learning from it. It's very helpful.

    So... here are two images.

    One is an ink rough where I combined some of the info /changes from you guys and cobbled them together into one composition. ( Really, I just altered the original slightly pretty much as Kev already did for me) This one is a rough for me to get an idea about how I want to lay down my marks.

    The 2nd is another sketch of the scene. Not a very good composition but after all of this discussion I couldn't resist whipping out another one. In this one we get a bit more information on the character through his posture and some more props.

    So Please take a look and have at er with some more Crits.

    Again, all of your comments or very much appreciated.

    Thanks.

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    Hey, its Big Boss! Nice job so far.

    "Is there a way I can take my pants off?..." - Snake from MGS3: SE
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    I thought about this a little more, and here's what seems to me to happen when the alchohal and cigarettes are mixed: too many 'coping mechanisms'. If he's going to shoot himself, or do something desperate, then that probably works. If he's going to get drunk, either the cigarette or the bottle should probably go. What's good about the image on the left is the way that both objects are put on the table side by side, as if to establish a relationship between them.


    Another possible way to draw that image is to put two wine glasses and a bottle of wine on the table instead of the whiskey. What that might suggest is a planned romantic get-together that was spoiled by the discovery of the recorder. Problem with that approach is that I sketched it out and it didn't read clearly to the people I showed it to: too many elements seemed to be confusing.

    One thing I noticed about your original piece is that the side that his eyepatch is on is facing the recorder. His left eye is looking away from it, as if in thought, and the cigarette interposes itself between the body and the table. It's almost as if you are subconsciously suggesting that he is not directly tackling the drama.

    Anyway, image on the right looks great +seems to me to work.

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    Somebody is misunderstanding something...

    In order to do a sensible job, what must be known by the illustrator is what information *needs* to be in the illustration to tell the story.

    If the explanation about what is on the recording is coming from the story at large or some additional text accompanying the picture, then that's one thing.

    However, if the viewer is only getting information from the illustration... then, if you want the story to read properly, you must somehow convey the information about the content of the recording in the illustration.

    The story is: Guy wakes up to listen to lover leaving him on tape.

    I thought the unhappy face and tear accomlished that in post #20.

    The version that occurs in post #1, post #7 and the latest post #25 does not indicate the contents of the tape. It looks like a spy is listening to a recording of his next assignment.

    It is the gesture and behaviour of the protagonist and his reaction to the revelatory clue that will give you your story.

    The revelatory clue can carry the explanation as text (A readable goodbye letter, for instance). or the figure can clue us in about the contents of the tape (Slumping in post #6 (maybe not enough info in that one) or the broody and teary-eyed version in post #20)

    Props: Alcohol only shows "desperation" if the figure shows desperation. If the figure doesn't show desperation, the alcohol doesn't either. Thus the alcohol is a redundant prop. It can be used, but isn't necessary.

    The cigarette is completely neutral. Cigarette smoke shows time passing, which helps the idea that the recording is being listened to.

    The idea of the gun was sort of a joke I threw in to "ramp up the drama". Also because I thought Wheeljack was being influenced by Frazetta's Came the Dawn illos. Anybody who draws as well as he does, *and* knows who Joseph Clement Coll is, must be a Frazetta fan! So fess up, do you own "Living Legend" or what? (By the way, I am a monster fan of Coll.)

    Which reminds me, Wheeljack, you indicated in the first post the story was the following: "He's just been jilted by his lover and wakes up to hear her dear john confession on the handy dandy reel to reel. He's smoking his cigar and brooding..."

    Not sure if people wake up in turtlenecks and jeans with their hair blow-dried. to perfection..

    I'm thinking this guy would be in boxers and a robe. Doin' the Hef thing circa 1962. Wakes up to find a recorder there (Maybe there would be a note on top that says, "press play" written in a girls' handwriting, eh?). Do we catch him just as he's getting the gist, maybe frozen with a hallowed out look in his eye? Or do we catch him as he's starting to get pissed, and maybe he grinds his cigar into the ashtray...

    Boxers, robe, grinding cigar into ashtray, sullen grumpy look on his face, maybe a little moist in the eyes, tape player, maybe the note in girl's handwriting that says "play me"....

    The essence of a vignette is *you only put in there what is necessary and no more*! And you use everything you put in to its maximum potential. And you vignette around objects, not through them.

    Which reminds me, the new picture you offered in post #23 with the table... The table legs are straight verticals. The table is a straight horizontal. The negative shape formed by the legs and the table top is a totally stable rectangle that is bigger than the entire figure of the guy. WTF!

    The man's life is teetering in the balance, don't send us subliminal messages that everything is stable by making boring, stable graphic design. We need to see some compositional teetering, imbalance, mysterious lost and found edges, etc. It is the superimposition of the graphic design on the calm image that gives it resonant power. The graphic design is the metaphor.

    Best,
    kev

    At least Icarus tried!


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  28. #27
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    I forgot to mention that the illustration in post 25 looks great, btw!

    kev

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
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    Heres an easy thing that will help save this picture which I really dig...its his butt, the right cheek needs to be drawn to the left more so it doesnt look like hes slipping off the chair.
    Also under his right armpit as its going over the chair, you need to show more of the top of the chair.

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  30. #29
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    Hey Gang!

    You know, after the last batch of responses I got from you, I sat myself down and typed out a long and detailed response. I spent at least an hour attending to every detail just to make sure I addressed everyone in a thoughtful and considerate manner. I figure that if you took the time to write a crit, I damn well better take the time to wite a response! WELL... the kicker is that when I decided to hit the post button. The forum decided to tell me that my session has timed out and bamf! I lost the whole shaBang! So.... needless to say I was more than a little annoyed and I've taken my time getting back to you because of that, not because I was trying to be rude.

    So... here we go with the final inked up version. Whaddya say? How can I or should I improve on this one? What should I learn from it and what should I focus on for my next illustration. Again, all of your input is appreciated.

    Kev ferrara:

    Like I said before, I wrote this long and detailed response but ... I lost it. So, here goes with round #2.

    "It is the gesture and behaviour of the protagonist and his reaction to the revelatory clue that will give you your story. " In the story there is a revelatory clue, i.e. a photograph with a lipstick kiss mark on it and a hand written good bye. I had thought of using that for this image but in the end I decided I'd like to use it somewhere else and also to challenge myself to NOT use it and see what I could come up with. Some of the thumbs has it in there though.

    Props: You are right about the Alcohol. I did not consider it as desperation but essentially it is a coping mechanism and this character is too bad ass to need to cope with anything. As Well, I don't think it would have worked in the composition I already laid out.

    Frazetta: You know it! who doesn't love Frazetta's work? I am not familiar with his "came the dawn illos" though. Would I know them by another name? I don't own living legend either! ( sorry to disappoint) I do have "Icon" and "master of fantasy". I was not thinking of Frazetta in relation to this image at all but maybe he is always kicking around somewhere in my sub conscious. Coll on the other hand is always within reach ( literally)and I have also been heavily influenced by Garry Gianni and his work on the Robert E Howard Stories for wandering star. If you have not seen em, you are missing out!

    "Not sure if people wake up in turtlenecks and jeans with their hair blow-dried. to perfection." You mean you don't wake up like that? I don't get it... heh heh. Take it as artistic license if you will. I see it more as he woke up and decided to put on his pants and have a smoke before he sat down to listen to it. I like to think that we caught him in the moment where he has come to the grim understanding that up until this point, he was just a pawn and has resolved or become determined that it would never happen to him again. The woman is more of a plot device so that he can get the message from her. Their relationship is relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of this character's story arch. But, the information she passes on in her "Dear John" message changes his life and perhaps the world.... heavy!

    #23 WTF indeed! I agree with you and somewhat regret even posting it. Basically after the previous discussions, I just felt compelled to hammer out a quit image of a separate pose. I did not even consider the composition besides the figure. So, just take it as a study.


    Crostar:

    Wine glasses! Eureka, that is a great idea! Too bad I already resolved this image but next time... I must say that this whole thread and discussion has been excellent for stimulating my mind and encouraging me to think a little. My approach seems to be considered up until a point and then the rest is executed on instinct. Hence the hit and miss process I seem to have. You're comments have been insightful and I do appreciate your taking the time to post. I wish I had more to say right now but I think I used up my word quota for the day when I responded to Kev.

    Graighter: Hmmm.. did I accomplish in my latest image that which you stated? His ass and the chair....

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  31. #30
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    Hey, this looks fantastic!

    So, is this a book you're writing and illustrating or a graphic novel?

    Huge fan of Gianni btw. And of course *nobody* is a bigger fan of coll than me. I'd explain, but then you'd think I'm obsessive! Illustration House in NYC has tons of his originals in a drawer which I've held in my hand. It was a revelatory learning experience, that's for sure! The verve of every pen stroke knocks you over!

    Best.
    kev

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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