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Thread: How about some C+C?

  1. #1
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    How about some C+C?

    Hey gang!

    I've been pondering this pen and ink illustration for some time now and I'm just not happy with where it is going and I was hoping a couple of new eyes with some fresh perspective could assist me? Please take a look and I'd appreciate any C+C you can offer.

    Thanks.

    Basically this character is sitting alone in a cabin. He's just been jilted by his lover and wakes up to hear her dear john confession on the handy dandy reel to reel. He's smoking his cigar and brooding...

    The first more detailed one is the primary idea but I'm not convinced... Any input? What about composition? It's supposed to be in viniette ala Joseph Clement Cole.

    the 2nd one is a small thumbail of an alternate version of this idea.
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  3. #2
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    The impression I get from hime is that the way his left shoulder is positioned makes it look like he is twisting the top half of his torso which makes it look like he is about to get up. Also, drawing in the border of the room, or otherwise making some kind of solid ground would help this.
    Other than that, I have to say, I dig the retro feel to this. Very nice.
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    mgs3 inpired?

    looks cool, and i like your lines. The main problem that jumped out at me was the background being to high up, especially when the perspective on the box infront of him is so visible. Try contructing up a grid down to the floor and seeing if you can line it up a bit better (might just need to be lowered a bit).

    i think there's something wrong with his shoulders and torso also, more indication of the way his torso is facing would help.

    good luck with, it would be cool to see the lines done up even tighter, you've definitley got skill with pen and ink

    cheers,
    chris
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    Hmm... interesting problem. How to make sound coming out of a reel-to-reel recorder dramatic. Guess you really have to have the guy do all the expression. The lighting...

    In the larger illo, we have the reel to reel there in the FG and they guy is hanging back.... No much to go on. The reels don't look like they're moving. They can't be, and even if you tried to do some radial blur on the reels to get that blurry action feel, it still wouldn't do much for you. The real deal has to come from the guy and how his body language says he listening.

    So... drama... This guy is listening. Looks wayyy too relaxed. Relaxed listening is not what makes a good illustration, unless you're selling radios in an ad.

    I like the moody dark mystery in the second one. Looks just like one of Frazetta's came the dawn pics.

    Maybe if the guy had an ear cocked to the recorder? Still not enough drama....

    So I did a quickie sketch of a composition... Guy leans forward to listen (instead of hanging back)... Turns to look into another room ... Where there is a GUN HANGING OVER THE MANTEL PIECE!*

    kev
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    i think the second thumb gives better mood. agree with kev on the relying on the guy's expression, reaction to create the drame of listening to a ex's message. but on kev's quickie, i think the guy sort of lost the contemplating/ brooding/ flashback moment's feel, and too much intensity in listening to every sound of the reel, like a spy movie or a look-out scene or something, may i suggest looking at your second thumb, maybe flip the reel-to-reel and the guy around and hav the free hand pressing on the play button? in that way his expression can also work as a secondary clue as to how his reaction might be, to achieve what you want with his mood? that way he doesnt have to stare at the machine and can even look down or away and we still get the hint that he's listening and retain the contemplative mood?

    another thing maybe an alternative angle of viewing? maybe the camera at a lower angle and a more dramatised perspective? so that the reel-to-reel is enlarged/exagerated in the foreground while the guy's looks like its looming over it... just some of my thought and imagery in my head with no quickie to substaintiate, kev's being a pro comic artist would know better on these things.

    and kev's gun hint... he'll hav to suffer something really bad from his ex, maybe she left bcos of the eye-patch?
    Last edited by zenichi; August 18th, 2007 at 08:27 AM.
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    Here's a slightly more brooding version... The main point being that there must be some connection established between the guy and the listening device...
    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
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    Here's your first picture, just trying to tie everything together with lighting....
    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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  9. #8
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    Wow, what a response and so soon! thanks eveybody for pitching in here to help me out. So I read all the feedback and in my mind it appears to be either a compositional thing or a minor tinkering thing... Which one? Hmm....

    I sat down and did a few quick thumbnails trying to revisit the comoposition.
    #1: Hunched the character over and tried to concentrate on his brooding over the contents of the tape. I put a few more props into the situation to perhaps add some more depth. Like an ashtray full of smoked cigars and a liquor bottle with an empty shot glass. The idea being that he has spent hours re listening to the contents of the tape. Pouring over every second trying to digest all of it's content and meaning. Listening this tape changes his life so it's important to the story.

    #2: Why not go for a still life and do something a little different? Focus on the contents of scene. We still have the basic story elements. The tape and reel to reel. The ashtray, And now I've added the photograph with lipstick marks and a handwritten goodbye. Character is in the back ground, maybe he's been pacing for hours? maybe I could frame it with dramatic light?

    #3: Just a still life only. A Vertical composition. Trying to push #2 even further.

    Or... I could ( and maybe should) go to kev ferrara's last image where he generously combined all of your advice for me. My wife likes this one best and the pro is that it will not take much more work on my part and it just refines the illustration that I have already worked up to this point.
    Or... I could redo the whole thing! I don't have a deadline and I can agonize over this baby forever until I go INSANE! I'm afraid I'll fall into the trap where I can keep reworkign this endlessly..

    What do you guys think? Essentially this is just a learning excercise so no pressure except that which I place upon myself. Mind... Reeling... From the... possibilities!

    Once again Many thanks!


    lemming-clone-:Thanks man. i've looked at this for a while and you know sometimes you get so close to the image that you can't look at it objectively. That's why I appreciate your input and fresh perspective. He's intended to be slouching and sitting low and forward in his chair with his right arm hooked over the back. I'll have to think about this.....

    Nizza_waaarg: You Got it! MGS3 indeed. I didn't want to just come out and say it b/c so many people know and love the series and I thought I'd try get as much of an objective response as possible. But yeah, it's the scene at the end where Snake wakes up to find that he's been dumped and teh whole plot / story is explained to him and us. Thanks and I agree with the background. It will be attended to. Stay tuned and I'll post some updates until this baby is resolved.

    kev ferrara: Thank you for input and sketches / draw overs! It's much appreciated. I took a look at your sketch thread ( Bookmarked) and it appears that you are the guy to go to when it comes to pen and ink work. Excellent stuff! After reading your posts, I though maybe it WAS a compositional thing and maybe I should revisit it. So I did in the included attachment. I'm attempting to look at it again from a fresh perspective and focus on Story & illustration. Thanks again!

    zenichi: Thanks for the post! You combined with Kev have given me much to think about. I incorporates some of what you suggested in the one thumbnail and I'm still pondering...

    Also, i've included a finished piece of a portrait of the character Revolver Ocelot just to indicate the type of finish that I'm going for.
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  10. #9
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    Get it done, move on to the next composition. One of the best learning experiences in the world is finishing a work of art.

    Best,
    kev
    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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  11. #10
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    notice the smoke from the man's cig in kev's paintover, gives dynamism (something moving vs. slow rotating of reel, which is as good as static in drawing), pace(indicate passing of time, as if you are looking at an animated pic, movie vs a static pic) , litghness (well...) and atmosphere (man holding cig motionless, deep in thought for at least in the pass few moments) in an otherwise static (contemplating) composition! brilliant! as for your decision, well choose which ever path you decide and completing them gives different revelation i guess, so good luck!

    on the R. oncelot character, the etching type stroke seems to enhance the farbic elements, gun and gloves (? or is it hand in shadow?) but doesnt seems to be doing that for the face and hand? the stroke seems to achive a lot more for the other elements, but the face and hands seems to have lost their defination and form, to be more specific, the nose, upper lips and finger's shadow's stroke doesnt seems to achieve either enhancing their form (like the fabrics) or create contrasting effect from clothing that its a different texture, elements or something... sorry stuck too, good luck in figuring out!

    i've learn much from your post as well as c&c from others on this thread.thanks for sharing!

    side note: whenever i type F-A-G in this forum, it will be changed into mankeymankeymankey in this forum, so i've substituted it with cig-shortform for cigarette. thanks to conceptart, now i now i realise there's another meaning for F-A-G!!! )
    Last edited by zenichi; August 19th, 2007 at 09:58 AM.
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  12. #11
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    Right, Get back to work, wrap it up, move on. Stand by for an update within the week.

    Thanks Again!
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    You've probably got all the ideas you need at this point.

    However, one other angle to approach this one from is the narrative angle. For example, can we tell by his actions and expression what he's about to do even before he realizes it? Maybe we shouldn't know at this point, but foreshadowing is always a useful device. In the attached sketches I made him look psychotic, which doesn't seem to be what you were going for, but the use of a definite emotional response is that it helps the reader peg the character. When I see a jilted lover who has an eyepatch and is brooding, but doesnt appear deeply disturbed, it doesnt ring true to me. If you mean him to internalize his angst, I think he should exhibit some sort of emotional tell that all is not right but he's going to pretend it is anyway. Or perhaps he's the kind of guy who loves em and leaves em, and is only really mad because he got left first.
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  14. #13
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    Some observations on Crostar's post on the "narrative" (?!?!) angle...

    Guys with eye patches take shit in stride.

    Planning a murder requires some contemplation.

    Psychotic people can't use old-style tape recorders because they eat the reels.

    Also.. any girl who would date a psychotic won't know how to use audio equipment.

    People who are in a psychotic state of mind rarely sit still to listen to audio recordings.

    Seeing a psychotic listening to a reel to reel tape of his lover ending their relationship is hilarious!!!



    kev
    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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