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  1. #1
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    before they were pro's

    im just wondering if any of you godly pro's out there have any work scanned from when u were a lil baby artist... and a lil inspirational info to go along with its always nice...


    also check out my sketchbook by clicking here. i dont get many visitors .

    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=95804

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  2. #2
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    HunterKiller_ is offline Registered User Level 15 Gladiator: Spartacus' Hoplomachi
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    Yeah, I would like to see that too.
    Hard to imagine that the pros weren't always pros.

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    i have a folder of some old stuff by wes burt, incredible to compare to where he is nowdays. hmmm.. i dunno if its ok to post old stuff of someone elses,,,,

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    Whats wrong with sharing some art..
    Put that stuff from wes burt in a folder online. I would love to see it!

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    heres the folder that Spade mentioned: http://www.ville-ericsson.se/misc/wesburt.zip
    pretty much every Wesley Burt image i've been able to find

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    sweet that folder is pure liquid wonderment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Epias View Post
    Whats wrong with sharing some art..
    Well for one if it's not your artwork, it's redistribution without the copyright holder's permission. Admittedly that's being a tad pedantic over copyright law but it's still technically a violation.

    I'd point out to anyone tempted to post old art not belonging to them, would you like it if someone dug up old art you'd deleted from your site and reposted it without your permission?

    I know I wouldn't like it, my old art I took down for a reason. I don't want anyone but me reposting it if for some reason it's wanted. There's plenty of pros here, if they want to show how their early art looked then they'll show it. Otherwise, I'd suggest either asking them for permission prior to posting old work of theirs or not posting it.

    Last edited by subversive-imaginati; August 5th, 2007 at 10:23 AM.
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  8. #8
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Quote Originally Posted by subversive-imaginati View Post
    There's plenty of pros here, if they want to show how their early art looked then they'll show it. Otherwise, I'd suggest either asking them for permission prior to posting old work of theirs or not posting it.
    Seconded. I was actually considering maybe digging some things up. Now, not so much.


    Tristan Elwell
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    hmm well anyone know any threads of pros old art that theyve put up to give ppl inspiration possibly :/

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    Yes, do a search for "Mindcandyman".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Seconded. I was actually considering maybe digging some things up. Now, not so much.
    please do! id love to see some.

    Also, seeing artists styles develop and improve is the most inspiring and motivating thing ever. But i understand that one needs to ask,,, which is what i was wondering in the first place

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    pick up Mythology by Alex Ross, has some cool old stuff from him in there.

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    I love how most pros never show their old shit, it's so helpful for beginners.

    I'll second MagicMan on the Mythology suggestion, that book got me back into art, why? Because it shows his early work, stuff from his childhood and teenage years.

    Sketchbook

    "Beliefs are rules for action"
    "Knowledge is proven in action."
    "It's use is it's meaning."
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    Quote Originally Posted by armando View Post
    I love how most pros never show their old shit, it's so helpful for beginners.
    The only "help" it gives beginners is some encouragement after all if someone like madly famous skilled artist used to suck then it gives them the impression that anyone can obtain that level of skill. Which is really quite unrealistic, I know artists who've been drawing for decades who are still producing work nowhere near professional level despite proclaiming themselves to be a professional artist. Skill isn't guaranteed to develop eventually.

    How can I put it this way? Old art is like baby photos or that embarassing story your mother insists on telling to all your teenaged friends. Pro's want to show what they can do now not how bad their art was ten years ago.

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  15. #15
    Ellingsworth Guest
    it gives them the impression that anyone can obtain that level of skill. Which is really quite unrealistic
    Actually, I would have to disagree, if someone is dedicated enough and really wants to improve, then they will. They also have to be learning the right stuff. If what you said was true, then there's really no point of this website.

    I think Elwell said this once, to a similar question. "You better hope not, or we are all just wasting our time." I have it quoted badly or wrong, not sure. I can't remember.

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    I again have to disagree, it's true they aren't common but people do exist who can work their rears off and still not have the slightest aptitude for art. Hell even in writing there have been hopeless cases of people who've known every single obscure grammar rule, known everything they can possibly learn about writing and still been terrible writers. One women I heard about, was eventually turned away because there was nothing more that she could be taught and she was still a poor writer.

    For example, did you know some people have no aptitude for handwriting? Strange but true, I know one person who after ten years and constant effort still can't handwrite clearly and legibly. It took the person several years just to figure out how to form the letter N. Yet while some people would insist that everyone can learn to write letters, my personal experience proves that not everyone can learn to form a letter out of lines.

    Everyone's an individual after all, it's like rolling your tongue, some people can and some people can't. Effort doesn't always result in success every single time, pretending that effort = results is a huge fallacy. If someone wants it and is prepared to work for it, all they get is a chance at improvement, if they're one of those who will still be drawing stick figures after ten years of life drawing then all the effort in the world won't help them improve.

    There most assuredly is a point to this site, to help those who can and those who want to improve. Just because there is a small percentage of people who simply cannot learn something does not mean that you should overlook the fact that a large percentage can achieve at least a minimum level of skill in it.

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  17. #17
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    subversive-imaginati - I think you may be right about the conceptual side of art and writing, but the equivalent of grammar in art is the line, colour and form of the piece.

    The fact is, people CAN learn how to draw well, just like they can learn good grammar. Neither means youll produce a masterpiece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by subversive-imaginati View Post
    I again have to disagree, it's true they aren't common but people do exist who can work their rears off and still not have the slightest aptitude for art. Hell even in writing there have been hopeless cases of people who've known every single obscure grammar rule, known everything they can possibly learn about writing and still been terrible writers. One women I heard about, was eventually turned away because there was nothing more that she could be taught and she was still a poor writer.

    For example, did you know some people have no aptitude for handwriting? Strange but true, I know one person who after ten years and constant effort still can't handwrite clearly and legibly. It took the person several years just to figure out how to form the letter N. Yet while some people would insist that everyone can learn to write letters, my personal experience proves that not everyone can learn to form a letter out of lines.

    Everyone's an individual after all, it's like rolling your tongue, some people can and some people can't. Effort doesn't always result in success every single time, pretending that effort = results is a huge fallacy. If someone wants it and is prepared to work for it, all they get is a chance at improvement, if they're one of those who will still be drawing stick figures after ten years of life drawing then all the effort in the world won't help them improve.

    There most assuredly is a point to this site, to help those who can and those who want to improve. Just because there is a small percentage of people who simply cannot learn something does not mean that you should overlook the fact that a large percentage can achieve at least a minimum level of skill in it.
    I really disagree.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_ppzoN8j-4

    Everyone can get to a professional level, the people who fail after ten years are learning the wrong way period. Effort + not giving up = result, every single time.

    "If someone wants it and is prepared to work for it, all they get is a chance at improvement"
    If you work for it you WILL improve...

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  19. #19
    Ellingsworth Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Epias View Post
    I really disagree.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_ppzoN8j-4

    Everyone can get to a professional level, the people who fail after ten years are learning the wrong way period. Effort + not giving up = result, every single time.

    "If someone wants it and is prepared to work for it, all they get is a chance at improvement"
    If you work for it you WILL improve...
    Exactly.

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    I agree that anyone can get there if they work hard enough and intelligently enough.

    I heard an old story somewhere that goes like this:

    An eager student wants to become a master carpenter and approaches a very well known and respected master carpenter in a nearby town. The carpenter tells the student that it's going to take a lot of hard work- more than he probably expects. But the student is determined and enthusiastic and says he'll do anything. So the carpenter accepts him into his workshop and informs the student that he will start with the very basics- sawing wood. He gives the student a handsaw and about 500 pieces of scrap wood, and tells him to cut every piece in half, but no instruction or demonstration beyond that. Brimming with excitement, the student stays up all night sawing with great dedication and determination, but when the master carpenter arrives at the workshop the next morning, the student has hardly cut one board in half. Perplexed, the master carpenter asks the student to demonstrate what he spent the whole night doing. Eager to impress, the student sits down on the floor next to the saw horses and places the board between his legs. He places the wrong side of the saw on the wood and begins to move it back and forth furiously...

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    I know artists who've had help by the bucketload, they've been shown the way to improve, they profess to be eager to learn. Unfortunately as the saying goes? You can't polish a turd. Their art is still awful and judging from their lack of improvement in several years will remain awful unless a miracle occurs.

    As nice as it is to think that anyone can learn art, it's simply not feasible. Indeed it can be taught to pretty much everyone but there will be a small percentage of people who have more enthusiasm than aptitude. My own sister is one of them and I've encountered other examples.

    It's the same with handwriting which is an art onto itself. Some people simply don't have any skill with it no matter how hard they try or how much they practice. I don't get why people think art is somehow magically immune from being something some people just don't have any aptitude for.

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    Wow, this thread really went off-topic, aye? ;D

    Personally, I think it's true that ppl have areas that they're just better at than other subjects, but this has to be an exaggeration:

    Quote Originally Posted by subversive-imaginati View Post
    I know artists who've had help by the bucketload, they've been shown the way to improve, they profess to be eager to learn. Unfortunately as the saying goes? You can't polish a turd. Their art is still awful and judging from their lack of improvement in several years will remain awful unless a miracle occurs.
    Obviously not everyone can achieve the superior quality of art that can be seen on conceptart's front page, but yeah, anyone can improve their art to at least to a stage of decency. The question, therefore, is what does the artist need in order to improve. Sometimes it takes the right teacher. Sometimes it takes the right tools. Sometimes they're just trying too hard. And sometimes the learning artist is just not seeing what is wrong with their art (ie they think they're doing incredible work and don't see their own pitfalls, like chasethehedgehog). I think we'd have to see the specific example to determine exactly for what reason an artist is not seeing progress.

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    Still an interesting conversation.

    I don't have any online examples since the most of that cases I know are offline ones and the couple online, well I'm not going to embarass them by calling them out amoungst other reasons.

    We're all individuals, Some people cannot form letters, the drawing of a letter is no different to drawing a person or another form, if some people cannot draw letters then it also follows that some people must be unable to depict a form on a 2D surface.

    Some people are no good at certain sports and ace at others, some are great at chemistry and yet fail at home economics. Some people struggle with mathematics yet ace woodwork. Attempting to learn the skills is only half the struggle. You can teach someone to parrot all the terms and rules, but if they can't understand how to apply them? It does them no good at the end of the day. I think there must be a certain amount of aptitude for something to make them capable of learning more. Not to be confused with talent since talent and aptitude are two different things.

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    I think this thread turned into a great debate even if it went off topic.

    I'm of the school that anyone can learn to be good at art. You could start at any age and improve with the right teacher, the right setup and most importantly, the right state of mind. I think what the argument here is essentially "sure they can learn the basics but will they be creative?" and that's totally up to the individual i think.

    I think my mom kept some of the art i did as a kid. I drew all the time though so she probably didn't keep much... i t hink it's facinating how art develops in children... how everyone does the stick figure family in front of a house... then in about grade 6 kids want realism or nothing and try and figure out perspective... (speaking of which does anyone else remember the imluminating moment they learnt perspective? i do it was such a break through... i was trying to draw a truck on a ramp in 3d and it suddenly hit me that the ramp and truck had a different vanishing point than the rest of the piece. it was so awesome)

    this article might be interesting http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=406

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    Saw this while browsing through the forum and I thought I might contribute something to the on-topic discussion:

    arcipello's dA Gallery

    Check out his older stuff, like back in '02, and compare it with the newer ones, and you'll see a world of difference, although it is undeniable that the potential was there in his earlier works. Gives you hope to carry on, doesn't it? Sure did for me.
    ...
    As to the off-topic discussion, I'm sorta on the fence. I can see how enticing the notion that one can improve to a level close to the pros with hard work and dedication, but then I can also see that people have different levels of affinity towards making art, like any other skill. I fervently wish that the latter is true, though instinct points to the latter as truth. Okay, so I'm leaning towards 'not all people make good art' side.

    Hope - it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness. - The Architect (from the Matrix)

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    Creativity is not the same as aptitude. If I'd meant creativity, I'd have used the word creativity. One of the people I know has bucket loads of creativity if fairy princesses are involved.

    My point is there are some people who no matter how much you teach them will never ever show aptitude for certain subjects. I'm related to at least one. As a five year old she drew like a 5 year old, as a 21 year old, she still draws like a 5 year old.

    She's had way more art classes than I have had. She's actually got the qualifications I didn't get due to poor health as well as more qualifications on top of that. She has encouragement and a lot of help to get better, she has enthusiasm by the bucket load, she wants to be just as good as me but that doesn't mean she can even get off the starting blocks. The teachers might as well try to teach a warthog to be a ballet dancer. It would probably yield more results.

    Everyone can be offered the tools, everyone can try to learn. But for a small minority? They simply have the artistic aptitude of a brick. Don't get me wrong, "anyone can learn it" sounds nice and applies to most people but in my experience it's not wholly true.

    As for perspective, can't say that it happened to me that way, but then my art teachers were pretty much used to me doing things that "just seemed right". Perspective just seemed logical to me. But then I ended up doing my own thing in art class a lot simply because I had a grasp of the basics that far outstripped my class mates.

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    I was looking foward to see some of the pros 1st drawing...

    But since the discussion got hottie i'll say what I have to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by subversive-imaginati View Post
    The only "help" it gives beginners is some encouragement after all if someone like madly famous skilled artist used to suck then it gives them the impression that anyone can obtain that level of skill.
    Now I can tell your wrong on that. I remember looking at Lukias sketchbook and when I saw some his old sketch it did something ''BOOM'' ohhh like that! I understood something there. It might not be the same for everyone and this was the one time it did for me. But yes, it might give confidence to some other people.

    As for the futur, learning something with succes is just like my sister told me.

    ''If you punch a concrete wall you gonna hurt your self many times, but eventually with patience if you keep punching it, is gonna break''.

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhrazz View Post
    I was looking foward to see some of the pros 1st drawing...
    Try this on for size:
    Albrecht Durer, Self Portrait at the Age of Thirteen

    Name:  durer-self-portrait-at-the-age-of-thirteen.jpg
Views: 1018
Size:  53.9 KB

    The inscription reads "This I drew, using a mirror; it is my own likeness, in the year 1484, when I was still a child / Albrecht Durer."

    I must have been seven or eight when I first saw this, and it changed my life. I was always a kid who was encouraged to draw, but here was proof of what was possible at a young age, and where you could see the seeds of what was to come.


    Tristan Elwell
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Try this on for size:
    Albrecht Durer, Self Portrait at the Age of Thirteen

    Name:  durer-self-portrait-at-the-age-of-thirteen.jpg
Views: 1018
Size:  53.9 KB

    The inscription reads "This I drew, using a mirror; it is my own likeness, in the year 1484, when I was still a child / Albrecht Durer."

    I must have been seven or eight when I first saw this, and it changed my life. I was always a kid who was encouraged to draw, but here was proof of what was possible at a young age, and where you could see the seeds of what was to come.
    Orgasm. That's amazing.

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    subversive-imaginati, I didn't read all your shit about not being able to improve. But I disagree damn completely on what i read.

    Anyone can learn how to speak. Anyone can learn how to drive a car. Anyone can learn how to draw. It takes tons of hard work, and effort to get there. ( exclusively good ) But anyone who really loves it can get there. No matter what you have fooled yourself with. I'm sorry if you have changed your mind along the way in your posts, the only thing i got out of the message was that "not everyone can get good" .

    I did 3D when i was really small. Before that I had no damn idea of what depth , 3D, form, and so on ever was. If i would just have picked up drawing , I would probably still be working on what was obvious after I had done 3D for fun some years. That was a "click" for me, that gave me a huge leap and understanding of drawing.

    Your examples must be people who doesn't love it or enjoy it enough to put in enough effort to get better. So may it be. But don't say that people who has what your examples doesn't have can't improve, because they can.

    There might be "clicks" a long the way that make you better in a leap, that makes it easier to improve.. But anyone who work hard can discover their own "clicks" .

    Anyone should just keep working hard, and don't follow any one else, who says something else about your dreams. Listening to losers who never understood a thing about your dream will only hurt you. I've heard so much crap about artists , and how close to social-losers they are, that i can understand how people lose their love to doing it at an early age. But that doesn't means that those people who got what it takes and are determined to do it will fail to become great artists. Everyone got potential. USE IT.

    ugh

    /rant.

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