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    Aikido Friday

    Because it's Friday! Enjoy!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIowy89IXco
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

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    not much of a aikido follower its so sensative to a sertain distance and can only function with in that gate. You should check out " Qinn Chin Na"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ-DV...elated&search=
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    Aikido and Judo I've never understood, it just a bunch of play fighting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyFreeze View Post
    Aikido and Judo I've never understood, it just a bunch of play fighting.
    Anytime you want to test that theory, just grab my wrist.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
    Anytime you want to test that theory, just grab my wrist.
    thats why judo is playfighting, why would I grab your wrist when I could punch you in the nose. I know, you probably have a move for that too, but still, a real fight always ends up as a wrestling match, unless your bruce lee, and you have no need to fight mere mortals.
    (Please don't come to my home and karate-chop my arm off).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goog View Post
    thats why judo is playfighting, why would I grab your wrist when I could punch you in the nose. I know, you probably have a move for that too, but still, a real fight always ends up as a wrestling match
    You realise Judo (a safety conscious derivative of Ju-Jitsu) is basically wrestling, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flake View Post
    You realise Judo (a safety conscious derivative of Ju-Jitsu) is basically wrestling, right?
    Yes, in fact a good friend of mine almost made it to teh olypics in judo.

    I guess what I'm trying to get to is, are there any judo moves for when you are on teh ground, hand to hand, cheek to cheek, stomach to stomach?

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    judo comes from shuia jiao which has masterd the hip throw lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmi8E...elated&search=
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goog View Post
    I guess what I'm trying to get to is, are there any judo moves for when you are on teh ground, hand to hand, cheek to cheek, stomach to stomach?
    Yup, a good selection of chokes and joint locks, most of them regularly employed by world class MMA fighters.

    Also, keep in mind that unless you're in a Judo competition there's absolutely nothing stopping a Judo practitioner from simply punching you in the face while you're down there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flake View Post
    Yup, a good selection of chokes and joint locks.

    Also, unless you're in competition there's absolutely nothing stopping a Judo practitioner from punching you in the face while you're down there.
    ahhh I see. I've just always had a negative view of martial arts regarding actual combat. Mainly because 1. because and 2. a kid who was a black belt in karate got his arse handed to him by a football player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
    Anytime you want to test that theory, just grab my wrist.
    My Jujitsu vs your Judo anytime...

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    I guess that's the secret of aikido that everybody underestimate it and don't take too seriously. It could be their first mistake

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    Aikido 101

    Aikido is a defensive martial art. The focus of the art is in taking another personís energy and using it against them. That means the harder you throw a punch at me, the more energy you give me to fling you across the room.

    Practices go like this: two people are paired up. One person is the attacker, the other is the defender. A particular attack and defense combination is demonstrated to the class. Typical attacks are wrist-grabs, shirt-grabs, smash-the-bottle-over-the-head strikes, roundhouse strikes, and punches. The video that noshadowmaster shared is a standard aikido defense. That same move can be used to dislocate the attackerís shoulder, throw them over the back and onto the floor, hold the attacker dancing in pain while they hop up and down on their toes, cause the attacker to fall onto their butt, or cause the attacker to fall and then pin them down with a joint-lock. Kicking isnít a standard part of aikido classes because it is dangerous for the attacker, but more advanced students do practice it. Aikido students also frequently dabble in the sword arts and judo, which are the martial arts that aikido came from.

    Dislocations arenít allowed in class, and it isnít polite to slam newbies onto the floor, so lower-level classes focus on joint-pins and making people fall on their butts. Falling is something that aikido students get very good at. The defense moves donít get more complex as the student progressive Ė they just get more fluid, precise, and powerful; and along with it the students learn to take harder and higher falls, up to the point of being able to safely take the impact of being hurled forcefully into the floor.

    Students just prior to gaining their blackbelts are the most dangerous, because they like to demonstrate just how hard they can fling and be flung. Typically above the blackbelt level they develop greater subtlety and restraint. The fellow in the video that I showed makes this stuff look magical because he is just that amazingly good. For a bull-in-a-china-shop demonstration, you would need to see someone younger and dumber.

    So, go ahead and try to punch me in the nose. I will step to the side and help you on your way to the floor, and then hold you there twisting your wrist while you whimper.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goog View Post
    ahhh I see. I've just always had a negative view of martial arts regarding actual combat. Mainly because 1. because and 2. a kid who was a black belt in karate got his arse handed to him by a football player.
    Not uncommon.

    Lots of traditional martial arts train in a bizarre ritualistic manner completely removed from the reality of a resisting opponent who wants to punch your head off.

    I dare say if "black belt kid" had spent a few years in a full contact sparring Muay Thai, western boxing or Kyokushin Karate school the outcome would have been quite different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goog View Post
    ahhh I see. I've just always had a negative view of martial arts regarding actual combat. Mainly because 1. because and 2. a kid who was a black belt in karate got his arse handed to him by a football player.
    In a reputable aikido dojo, it takes about ten years to earn a blackbelt. Sounds like maybe you went to a strip-mall pay-for-your-belts dojo. Those places have earned themselves a shabby reputation.

    And it doesnít help that dojos of all ranks are typically stuck-up about other martial arts and other dojos. The reality is that every martial art has its effective bits and its silly bits.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.

  17. #16
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    Why am I suddenly scared of Seedling, now.

    The way the guy was fighting made him seem like a ninja, but my only complaint is that the people attacking kind of looked like they were not trying to actually hit him, and sometimes their attacks looked fake. Other than that, I really liked the video. Thanks for posting, please don't karate chop me.

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    Seedling, I use to take Tae Kwon Do and the instructor there was very good. He also taught a few unique thing including Aikido self defense.

    A thing i didnt get, is in these classes you rpactice with a partner. But, it's hard to go full out in practice when your the attacker. What if it was real life and the guy is 6' 3" and much stronger than you how can you even grab his hand and turn it against him? A partner is subconciously too leniant in practice. I'm sure it takes tons of practice to be able to learn joint locks and other moves in the heat of battle intuitively but in cases i dont think it's practical. That old guys students were also being leniant with him, perhaps even faking it, I want to see him piss someone off and have them come at him full force. I'm still a bit skeptical about it.

    When i was paired up with someone and i was the attacker I was much stronger and taller then them. They couldnt get me to do anything. Heh i even wrestled the instructor once, I'm so big, he cant keep me down he had to freakin tickle me to fall. That was embaressing btw.At one point I lifted him from the floor on my back, and he was pretty small compaired to me. I dont know though, I'm sure theyll work if you catch someone off guard.

    One of the things we did learn in these classes, is when you got the joint lock go for the face, neck, arm pits, groin, and shins. Anywhere it will stun and hurt the person so you can finish him off.

    "be like water."
    Last edited by Costau D; July 27th, 2007 at 05:07 PM.
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Chimp View Post
    What if it was real life and the guy is 6' 3" and much stronger than you how can you even grab his hand and turn it against him?
    Well, you better hope that the heavier guy doesn't know much about actual fighting..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0_svVIDORQ

    Otherwise, you're out of luck, hope you're wearing running shoes.

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    One thing I like about Aikido though is the philosphy behind it. Your turning the attackers negative energy on to him, and you have to learn not to let emotion interfere in a fight. Always stop a fight before it starts.

    I'm 6' 3" 267Lbs. The only person I ever trained with that was fair was a guy that resembled Kareem Abdul jabar. He was 6' 7" and had long limbs. Fast as hell too. I quit training though, because the centers I tried out are just those hole in the wall places in strip malls. No one took anything seriously, and it was more of a self help seminar.
    Last edited by Costau D; July 27th, 2007 at 05:23 PM.
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    Not too impressive, since I've been an uke (one who's sensei competed a lot) and I know how it works... at least during display, ukes always go down easy. Way too easy. Not saying that this guy doesn't know his stuff, but I never trust MA displays anymore.

    Aikido is still cool though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Chimp View Post
    Seedling, I use to take Tae Kwon Do and the instructor there was very good. He also taught a few unique thing including Aikido self defense.

    A thing i didnt get, is in these classes you rpactice with a partner. But, it's hard to go full out in practice when your the attacker. What if it was real life and the guy is 6' 3" and much stronger than you how can you even grab his hand and turn it against him? A partner is subconciously too leniant in practice. I'm sure it takes tons of practice to be able to learn joint locks and other moves in the heat of battle intuitively but in cases i dont think it's practical. That old guys students were also being leniant with him, perhaps even faking it, I want to see him piss someone off and have them come at him full force. I'm still a bit skeptical about it.

    When i was paired up with someone and i was the attacker I was much stronger and taller then them. They couldnt get me to do anything. Heh i even wrestled the instructor once, I'm so big, he cant keep me down he had to freakin tickle me to fall. That was embaressing btw.At one point I lifted him from the floor on my back, and he was pretty small compaired to me. I dont know though, I'm sure theyll work if you catch someone off guard.

    One of the things we did learn in these classes, is when you got the joint lock go for the face, neck, arm pits, groin, and shins. Anywhere it will stun and hurt the person so you can finish him off.

    "be like water."
    Martial arts is a set of skills, not magic. I've been all over martial arts since I was about 7 and even I know that no matter how hard someone has trained, a 4'5", 90 pound girl is not going to take down a 6'3" 50 pound powerhouse... Martial arts can teach you alot of useful things, but 90% of it it making sure you're never in a position that you can't handle.
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    I agree. I'd like to study this, it's always good to mix it up a bit and find a style that suits you as you practice. Martial Arts is like drawing. If you take it seriously, study it day in and day out and practice all the fundamentals. As you do that you begin to learn what works for you, and you develop your way of dealing with problems. You just got to measure out pros and cons. So saying one style is better than the other all depends on how the person has trainedand how they use it.

    One problem with martial arts is some people feel they have to stick with tradition when studying it. Which makes a person weak and predictable.
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    "Karate is better than Taekwondo"
    "No way! Taekwondo will win!"
    "Nah, my Ninjutsu will own everything"

    *sigh*

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    I did Aikido for a bit, it was too slow for me, so I got into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and MMA.

    Within the first week, I'd learned a lot of things that really opened my eyes to how vulnerable most traditional martial artists were.

    I've done martial arts for about 15 years and I don't really see many traditional martial arts that can compare to modern mma skills, 90% of stuff you see done in Kung Fu, Karate, Tae Kwon Do, are absolutely useless for actual self defence.

    The first time I ever really saw something in martial arts that blew my mind, was when my 70kg instructor own3d the shit out of a student who weighted twice his weight, and was going 70% full bore into the grappling match, and through the truest skills I've ever seen, submitted him with a beautiful omo plata.

    I remember when I quit Aikido, it was when I was told off for throwing a punch a the Sensei and smacking him in the face, and was told that I wasn't supposed to throw a punch, but a knife hand to the throat. I was like...wtf? Shouldn't this motherfucker with a black belt be able to defend himself against anything?

    Same for Tae Kwon Do, all that spinning flying kicking stuff is pretty much useless.

    This video sums things up pretty nicely =)



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    How good is aikido against more than one person? krav maga would probably be the answer to that. Tae Kwon do has its benefits as well, it's good to know how to get a powerful kick in there. i think aikido for me would be good for last resort just in case.
    Last edited by Costau D; July 27th, 2007 at 11:40 PM.
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there was this show on mTV ... They turned different styles of MA and EMA against eachother... It turned out that the guy who had practiced "Tricking" and a mixed style of Taek wan do and karate was the guy who go the fight...

Also, "tricking" is like gymnastics ( people who trick, like myself, on any tricking related site would have killed me for saying that ) anyways, its a lot of "show off" as in flips, twist etc. But good trickers always win the fight :/

Its just not as affective in the "Arena" where you aren't allowed to punch the face, or other valuable parts of peoples bodies :/

Bruce lee, as mentioned was a guy who really handled techniques and many of those very common to "tricking" .. Same with Jet Li and Tony Jaa..

Those guys could beat the shit out of anyone, but I guess they would fail against a boxer :/

Its kinda hard to measure fighting styles, as it all comes down to practice..
The one who practice the most , the hardest and always, Is probably the guy who will win the fight.

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    Yeah drunken boxing has the same philosophy as the guy using "tricking". Confuse your opponent and act as if you lost your center of gravity, and confuse him. Then move in for the strike. Always good to be unpredictable, and if it ends up on the ground wrestling is a good weapon to have.

    I'd rather try to keep my opponent away from me, and confuse and embaress the living shit out of him. All people who start fights have huge egos, so it's good to play with them. It's all who can think the quickest, and improvise.

    One disadvantage to that style though, is you waist your energy moving around so much.
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    more fun =)



    THe "oh, its good for more than one person" thing is also bull crap, hell, if you can't handle one person, how on earth are you going to handle numerous people? I don't care if you're muhammad-I'm hard-bruce lee, handling 2 or more people is a difficult proposition, especially if they're motivated to hurt you. At best, you will most likely come out scathed.

    All that chop socky stuff you see on TV and movies, has lead to a lot of rubbish being bandied around as self defence.

    Real fighting is dirty business.

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    If i can see a video f a guy using aikido to defat more than one person then I will be surprised. Other martial arts arent useless, Krav Maga is a made for military style. In war your not always gonna be able to step in a ring and wrestle the guy with his buddies around. The whole movies magic thing you say people got stuck in their head i agree with to a certain extent. But not all those martial arts styles are useless. Even brawlers dont wrestle.

    I think what your seeing in these aikido tapes, are guys trained in other martial artis strictly staying to that style so they are being stubborn. If they trained using Bruce Lees philosphy (get the whole movies thing out of your head because he was a hard fighter), then we will see an interesting fight.

    These MMA fighters seem to me wanting to start a fight. The guys who accept have an ego just as big as theirs, and the ones who agreed not to fight for proof and reassurance are true martial artists.

    even though it is just a demeonstration, think ifyourin these situations such as a bus or restaraunt. Would you really want to be on the ground when you dont know if there is anything else to worry about.

    Actually lol, mind you, Krav maga teaches and emphasizes you use anything at your disposal. You bight, you grab the groin, you grab the guys larynx. Anything goes.



    Edit: Changed the video
    Last edited by Costau D; July 28th, 2007 at 12:16 AM.
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    I don't really consider Krav Maga a traditional martial art, its some pretty good, and a lot of them do a lot of cross training in wrestling, bjj and all sorts of stuff, they generally aren't stagnant, and are more in tune with what works.

    With regards to most martial arts not being completely useless, I agree, but I'm not going to forage through lots of useless stuff to find one gleaming bit of knowledge.

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