What's it gonna be?

[Coen]

Since I can't find a good school for drawing and painting here, I'll just list my other options. Any thoughts, possibilities, tips or suggestions about this are more than welcome cause I can't seem to figure it out on my own. I'm just posting this cause I keep thinking about it and I'd like to know how you feel about this.


1. Attend an art academy here with a major called "3D Animation and Visual Effects". Concept art is what I love, but I guess this is the next best thing I could find. This would be a choice of compromise cause I'm not the biggest fan of 3D, and I'm afraid not to have enough time left to draw, and to be unable to stay motivated doing this course.

2. Getting a job (ie. in a café or whatever) and learn to draw on my own till I'm good enough to get a job as a concept artist or illustrator. To do this I'd have to be disciplined enough and be able to set up a good schedule to train myself. I could also save up money for CA Workshops and maybe some day travel around for a while to draw all kinds of stuff and get inspired (always wanted to do this anyway).

3. Get in debt really really bad and move abroad to study at a good atelier (CA Atelier and LAAFA being my favorites so far). I doubt if this is a plausible option though.

4. ...

[Maxine Schacker]

I give up.

[Storyboard Dave]

Since I can't find a good school for drawing and painting here...

Are you serious about not being able to find a good art school on this site?

There seems to have been EVERY kind of art school listed here that's worth a damn. Everything from four year BFA granting institutions, to Masters Programs, to summer workshops, to diploma granting institutions, to finishing schools for your skills.

If you're looking for the perfect school, I hate to disappoint you but there is no such thing. You've just got to be able to find a place where you think you can be challenged and grow. There isn't a program out there that doesn't have a wart or a weakness of some kind. You've just got to find the one that suits you the best and then you've got to be motivated to excel there. A school can only accept so much responsibility for a student's success; the majority of it still rests with you.

[Coen]

Maxine Shacker - You give up? What do you mean? I'm only trying to find solutions, but I can't afford just anything I'd like to.

Storyboard Dave - I'm sorry, I should've been more clear in my explanation. With 'here' I ment in this country, in the Netherlands; not on this site. Of course I can find info on good schools on this site but for these schools I'd have to move abroad, so that belongs to the 3rd option I listed above. I'm just scared of getting in debt and being unable to get out of it and I'd have to leave everything behind to move that far. Maybe I worry too much tho, maybe I should just do it but it's pretty hard, that's why I listed my options.

[Eurysaces]

what about an atelier in the netherlands or europe? surely there is some one or some school you could study with/at?

[Jonas Heirwegh]

I live in Belgium and there isnt any "good" art school either so I prolly gonna move to LA and attend art center if everything works out. I'll be in debt really bad, more than bad actually but hey see it as an investment in yourself, nobody can take that away from you.
You just gotta make sure you take it all the way and putt everything out that school. Its not only the school I look at but also its connections to the industry.

If thats not an option I should go into illustration or something, take some lifedrawing nightclasses, etc.. and use internet for to show your art through forums like this one.

[Maxine Schacker]

Epias, do your homework. Investigate every school you are considering. How large are classes? Who is instructing? Are they in the field? Find out if you can speak with graduates and current students. Ask for employment rates in the student's chosen field. Don't sign anything without reading the fine print.

Coen, I've told you all about Max the Mutt. You can see the quality of the work on our web site. We are your most affordable option. I just meant that "I give up" suggesting that you look into us as a more affordable possibility. As my mother used to say, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

My desire for all of you who have the drive, passion and character to pursue your dreams is to see you succeed. Talent should be able to flourish. It shouldn't be stopped by outrageous tuition. Your problem is 1) to find a program that has integrity and will really teach the skills you need, and 2) find a program that will not leave you with a debt load you can' handle. I assume there are at least several options. LOOK into them!!! Compare them. Plan your strategy.

Epias, you won't get job because of a school's "connection" to the industry. You'll get a job because of your skills and your professionalism. You are looking at the wrong things.

[Icelandic Norm]

Epias, you won't get job because of a school's "connection" to the industry. You'll get a job because of your skills and your professionalism. You are looking at the wrong things.

Maybe we're splitting hairs here and obviously skills, talent and drive will help you succeed in the industry BUT it never hurts to go to a school that has alums in the field you want to go into. It never hurts to gain inside knowledge of a particular place from an instructor who is in the field as well.

The networking gained from going to an established school with insider connections never hurts.

[Storyboard Dave]

Maybe we're splitting hairs here and obviously skills, talent and drive will help you succeed in the industry BUT it never hurts to go to a school that has alums in the field you want to go into. It never hurts to gain inside knowledge of a particular place from an instructor who is in the field as well.

The networking gained from going to an established school with insider connections never hurts.

I guess I've been a prime benefactor of someone who has gone to a school with its connections to the industry. I've met so many people because of the introductions, it was the basis for a lot of my current client list and beyond. Obviously one has to have an innate drive & talent, but I agree- just having the name of THE person to talk to helps immensely.

And now that I teach, I have no problems passing on contact information to students that I think are ready and deserving to be a peers. It's Basic Networking 101!

[Coen]

Eurysaces: Yea I could stay in Europe as well, I don't know many ateliers here but there are some good ones. What I like about some of the schools and ateliers in the US tho, is the mix of classical training and focus on the entertainment industry.

Epias, if I'd move abroad for education it would probably be something more like an atelier than a big academy, but that's just a personal thing I think. Maybe you already did this, but like Maxine says, you should really investigate everything about any school you consider to attend (especially with tuition like that).

Maxine, I know Max the Mutt is one of the more affordable options, but it's still alot of money; money I will have to pay back someday. I just doesn't feel right, but maybe I listen to my parents too much (they're always warning me about how bad debt sucks). Of course pursuing dreams is great and really appealing to me, but I want to look at all my options to find the best one (cause maybe it's not necessary to walk around in debt for years).

[Dose206]

Think about it this way... what is debt? Well, you owe somebody money. So basically, you can go to a school and get in debt, then "walk around in debt for years" but all that means is that for these years you have to pay a little every month. It's the same as paying rent, car payments, gas, cigarettes, anything else. All you need is a source of income to survive.

So, best case scenario, you go to a school that you love, push yourself hard and get a good education and really polish your skills. Then you get a job doing something that you love and that source of income helps you pay for the debt.

So-so scenario: You go to an okay school (or a bad one) don't get that great of an education, maybe get a few concept art jobs here and there but have to have another job to pay the debt.

Worst case scenario: you go to a crappy school, get a crappy education and learn nothing, don't get any jobs doing what you like and so have to have another job to pay the debt.

No school scenario: you don't go to school, but in order to move out on your own and have a life you get a job to pay for rent, whatever, and live out the rest of your life.

The point that I'm trying to make is that in any of those scenarios, you work and give away your hard earned paycheck. Whether you're paying off a debt or just paying for lunch, you're still paying. So, the way I see it is that if you're gonna give away your money anyway, you might as well be paying for something that you wanted to do and that (hopefully) was worth it.
My advice is to shoot for the stars man. Find the most affordable (cheapest) school whos academics and student portfolios still appeal to you and go for it.
Sorry that I have no advice as far as whether to stay in country or move elsewhere, but it sounded to me like you have reservations about going to school at all.

Chris

[Maxine Schacker]

Our industry evening this year had major video game companies present...and we haven't introduced our new Concept Art Diploma yet! They were looking at the work of animation grads...and they were interested. We were called last year by the NY office of a major video game company - they wanted a special relationship with us. The point is, when companies see quality work coming from students, they are interested. There just aren't that many people out there anymore who can really draw and paint. The talent is there- the programs just aren't teaching what they should be teaching. In fact, it's hard to find instructors who can really draw. One has to really care about it and make an effort.

All worthwhile companies want people with skills and a good professional attitude. The jobs are there.There is a lack of qualified applicants. The question to ask yourself is are you are willing to struggle, work really hard, deal with frustration, delay gratification- how much do you want this? No school can magically give you skills: you have to do the work and have the persistence to develop them.

The question of debt is one you can work out for yourself, just as people work out how much of a mortgage they can afford to carry. There definitely is a difference between borrowing, say, $40,000 and borrowing $120,000.There will be a difference in the interest, in the monthly payments, and in the total you will pay for your education when you finish paying off your debt. If you go to a school that simply wants your money and doesn't offer you training that will result (with your hard work) in employment, or a school that passes you with minimal skills, you may get a diploma or a degree and still end up without a career.

On the other hand, if you can find an affordable program that teaches the skills you'll need, and is dead honest with you about the quality of your work, and if you are determined and willing to take this as seriously as becoming a surgeon or a concert pianist, or a physicist, you stand a good chance of having the career you want.

One way to judge your motivation is to ask yourself what you've done on your own. Do you keep a sketch book? Do you draw every day? Have you looked for good books on drawing, perspective,etc. Are you interested in art? Do you look at great drawings on a regular basis and do copies? Have you looked at great concept art from animation as well as the game industry? Do you have a real passion and fascination with this field? If you simply worry and stress out about finding a school, but aren't motivated enough to be trying to teach yourself, you probably should find a different career.

[Coen]

Thanks so much for your replies, it really helps. I think my main problem is a lack self confidence: with the amount of doubt I shoot at myself it's impossible to keep standing straight. I'm not sure about this (lol) but I really think this is the main problem I gotta solve. I've let fear run my life for way too long, whether it's about schools, careers or anything else. It's time to change that shit.

Dose206, I really have to agree with you about the money. I think money is not the main thing holding me back, fear is. Moving abroad is a big step and I've always been kinda scared of big steps. Not only it's expensive, I'll also have to leave my family, friends, figure out how everything works, move to a completely new area speaking another language, different culture etc. These are big things (well for me at least).

Maxine, as soon as you get any more info about the concept art course I'll be glad to hear about it. I don't think motivation is a problem, allthough I can get in a slump sometimes. This is also cause I'm thinking about it too much, thinking about if I'm doing the right thing, what I should do blabla. I think this is where an atelier or school could help, since they build up the fundamentals using a good schedule. I know I'm the one who should do the work itself, but some guidance could really help.

I often look at great concept artist and their work really boosts my motivation, but I should be more patient in my progression. I don't think I'm at the level of getting accepted at a good school yet, so this year I will set up a schedule and stick to it (and ask some people to set my ass on fire if I don't).

I had to write this reply in quite a hurry so I might add some things later on.

[Dose206]

ah, Coen, I see now where you're coming from. I just want to tell you that if you were to go to a good school or atelier, you would be made to feel comfortable there. Granted, you would have to leave friends and family but you would gain new friends and family. Please do not let fear of the unknown and different stop you from pursuing what you want.
I don't know if it helps you, but at the age of 18, only a few months after graduating high school I was deployed to South Korea with the Army, and by halfway through my 19th year on this planet I was deployed to Iraq. Now, granted the situation is different then what you are potentially going to go through, but I just want you to know that I've been in a similar boat (leaving friends and family behind and going to a VERY foreign environment) and it really wasn't that bad. There will be people who will support you.

I hope for the best for you.

[Coen]

Thanks Dose206, you're probably right.. I could also try to find someone who has similar plans, going together would be so much easier.. If I choose to do this there's alot to find out, the first thing being what school or atelier I want to go to. I could also try to get my bachelors first, maybe this makes it easier to get into other countries, I'm not sure. That would cost me another 4 years tho. Much to think about, I hope I can figure it out!

I'm sure I forgot to write a bunch of things but I'll do that when I think of it, thanks for all the help so far :D

[Maxine Schacker]

You don't need a BA to get into Canada or the US. You need to have been accepted by school to apply for a student VISA. In Canada they will ask you to show that you will be able to support yourself while you re here. I imagine its the same for the US.

[Jonas Heirwegh]

Epias, do your homework. Investigate every school you are considering. How large are classes? Who is instructing? Are they in the field? Find out if you can speak with graduates and current students. Ask for employment rates in the student's chosen field. Don't sign anything without reading the fine print.

Epias, you won't get job because of a school's "connection" to the industry. You'll get a job because of your skills and your professionalism. You are looking at the wrong things.

I do my homework dont worry, I'm always looking into things ALOT before I make a decision.
I didnt said that I would get a job just because of the schools connections. I said this "You just gotta make sure you take it all the way and putt everything out that school. "

But it doesnt hurt if that school has connections like art center does. It WILL give you advantages when you come out of art center as a good artist.
I want to go to art center because of its entertainment track not necessarily because of its connections..