Quick Question on Sight-Size

[Rblackmore]

Hey guys,
with my copy of the Bargue book on its way, I've been reading up about how to draw using the sight-size method. Now, I've read that you step back a distance of about 3x the largest dimension of your drawing to measure with a thread. A Bargue plate is about 18x24 I believe so that would be 6'. Now, apparently your drawing is supposed to come out 1:1 with the plate(or cast if your drawing a cast, etc.) Now what I'm wondering, is how can this be? If you're taking measurements from 6' back, wouldn't your drawing be much smaller than if you were measuring from no distance(the size of the original object in nature)? I must be missing something, could someone clue me in?
Thanks and best regards,
Rblackmore

[Wade Felt]

Rblackmore,

Your piece of paper and the plate you're copying are going to be next to each other on the same plane, be it tacked to the wall, your drawing board, or the easel.

Then you step back from your drawing surface/Bargue plate, take your measurement, step forward, and make your mark on your paper.

Repeat until perfect.

The Bargue book explains the process pretty well. There's more information/pictures in the Florence Academy of Art Drawing pdf available in the "Links to Information" section on John Peck's website: http://johnpeck.com/drawing.pdf

Hope this helps.

Wade.

[RogerAdams]

Hi Rblackmore,

Where did you get your copy of Bargue? I've been looking online for a while and everyone is sold out.

Here are a couple of links I've used to learn the method:

http://www.myamericanartist.com/2006/11/the_benefits_of.html
http://480bc.com/sight_size/sightsize.htm (this guy trained at the place that made the below dvd)

And if you've got the cash, this dvd is fantastic. It shows the comparison measurement method which differs from the sight size but goes over the gestural construct, tools and techniques. It's helped me a lot.

http://www.academyofrealistart.com/learntodrawvideo.asp

[Rblackmore]

I understand how its done perfectly well, thats all explained in many places. But what I don't get, is how does your drawing end up the exact same scale(if you put your drawing next to the original) as the original if you take your measurements from 6' away?! It doesnt make sense to me, but I haven't tried it yet as my book hasn't come yet. I ordered my copy from budplant.com, $100. Unfortunately, the reason mine hasn't come yet is because its on back order(which they neglected to tell me...) and won't be in until the end of June. :(
Gives me some time to learn all I can about sight-size though! And IMO, this (http://forum.portraitartist.com/showthread.php?t=2516) thread and its "sister thread" are VERY good resources on sight-size! :)

[RogerAdams]

The actually told you they would be getting more copies at the end of June? The only reason I ask, is that I've been looking for a copy for almost a year now and BudPlant has always had it listed as backordered so I've never put an order through.

As far as I know, Ben Rathbone explains "sight size" as an optical effect. He explains it better than I could.

[Rblackmore]

Actually, on their website it listed it as in stock so I ordered it. I called them after 2 weeks of waiting to ask why it wasn't here and they told me they forgot to send me an email saying that it was backordered. They told me their new shipment is coming at the end of june. Not a major problem as they didn't charge my credit card yet.

Do you mean the part at the beginning of the article? I still don't understand how that explains it. I really must be missing something, or perhaps I'm just stupid(!)? o_0

[reidaj]

You can also try picking the book up from the source @ The Dahesh Museum (http://www.daheshmuseum.org/shop/index.php). They are currently out of stock, but when in stock, they sell the book for around $75.

Are you by chance assuming that the measurement you take from 6' is transfered literally to your drawing? That for sure would produce a drawing of a different scale.

If thats the case, then the answer is that the measurements you take are transferred to the drawing by applying that measurement visually from the same vantage point. Everything in sight-size is relative to the vantage point, and all measurements, comparisons and observations are made from that same perspective.

[Rblackmore]

reidaj: Even after all these days, I still can't figure it out. Seriously, am I just slow or something? Apparently one is to take a measurement with a hand-held plumbline from x(in this case =6') and apply it from arms length and somehow come up with a 1:1 scale drawing. Perhaps I'm not as smart as I thought or maybe I am missing some obvious illusory principle that defies physics?!

[Wade Felt]

Apparently one is to take a measurement with a hand-held plumbline from x(in this case =6') and apply it from arms length and somehow come up with a 1:1 scale drawing.

Are you by chance assuming that the measurement you take from 6' is transfered literally to your drawing?

When you say "apply it from arms length" do you mean walk up to your drawing surface and make the same measurement you took at your station point six feet back?

Like, say you're standing at your station (or vantage) point, and you see on your reference that you need a point that's ... 2 inches to the right of your center line. Are you assuming that you then walk up to your drawing surface and measure 2 inches out from your center line?

Cause like reidaj said, that's gonna give you a drawing of a different scale.

All your measuring, comparison, complaining is done at the station point.
You stand there, take a measurement off your reference.
Decide you need a point 2 inches to the right of your center line.
Then while still standing at your station point, you find that same spot, 2 inches off the center line, on your drawing paper.
Then keeping your eyes on that point, you walk forward to your drawing paper, and mark it.
Then you step back to your station point, compare your mark with the original and realise it's a quarter of an inch off.
Then you cuss around a bit, re-sight your point, step forward and make another mark.
Step back, recheck, repeat till that mark is exactly where it needs to be.
Then move onto the next point.

Hope this helps,
.wade

[fishw]

rblackmore i can see your confusion, as sight size is about drawing from life to get the image as a whole to have a general focus rather than piecemeal observation, at the right scale. It really has nothing to do with copying a drawing or any 2d image. Sight size is more than a measuring tool. I agree, if you're measuring for a bargue drawing, there's no need to work from a distance other than just to check every now and then.