What is my art worth?

[Growly]

How do you price yourself? When is someone good enough to charge professional rates?

I honestly have no idea how to price myself fairly. I've been doing work for a niche fandom infamous for low art prices for a few years now, doing art commissions for between $40 and $60 (up to this (http://pics.livejournal.com/grrrowly/pic/001cs8fz) level of polish), and I KNOW this isn't what professionals charge. I hear my classmates casually talking about selling paintings they've done for hundreds of dollars. People with the same level of education as I.

As much as I love my fandom, uhh... I'd kind of like to have a professional career and be able to live off of it.

So tell me... what do you think I SHOULD be charging right now, at my current skill-level? Here is my DA gallery: http://thegreenmooseofdoom.deviantart.com/

[Elwell]

Deviantart cracks me up. All this talk of fans, commissions, etc. It's like some sort of bizarre alternate universe. Which is fine, as long as you realize that it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE REAL WORLD.

[JohnQ]

You Could Go To My Sig And Sell Your Art There!

[Elwell]

You Could Go To My Sig And Sell Your Art There!
You're not banned yet?

[Growly]

Deviantart cracks me up. All this talk of fans, commissions, etc. It's like some sort of bizarre alternate universe. Which is fine, as long as you realize that it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE REAL WORLD.

That's nothing new to me.
Hence this post- I'm trying to enter this 'real world' of which you speak.
Honestly, I hate Deviantart, but everyone keeps bothering me to update it, so I do.

So do you have any relevant advice to give about how exactly to price myself and get 'real' commissions?

[Elwell]

Do work that people are willing to pay more money for. And that means, more than anything, getting out of furryworld.

[Growly]

But seriously... that still doesn't help much. I have absolutely no idea how to price myself. I fear that if I ask for anything more than $100 for my stuff I'll be laughed out of a gallery.
But at the same time, I don't want people paying me peanuts, either.

Should I just slowly work my way up from fandom prices?

[Elwell]

What I'm saying is, the market for that subject matter is very limited. You're getting the prices you are because that's what people interested in that kind of work are willing to pay. If you want to try nudging them up, go ahead, but the upper limit isn't all that much higher.To get payed more, you're going to have to both increase your potential audience and improve your skill level, and the best way to do both of those things is to broaden your artistic horizons.

[Arshes Nei]

Hey Growly, I think you already know me ;)

What Elwell is saying has a very big stinging truth to it. Since I do commissions too for furry and other work, the problem is that the marketplace is very limited. We notice people like oh say Nek0gami getting paid 200 for work that I would consider rather subpar. However his popularity in the fandom and the fact he draws porn with above average quality than other artists is why he gets the few bites he does.

You're going to make some money in this niche market but when it comes down to it, think about how rampant the piracy in the community is. The image reposting is always something to do with pop culture art. I don't exactly see CA's artists being mass spammed on image boards like 4 chan and such. Usually when it is, it's because of some joke.

The market we are in has no regards or real respect for a person's time. They tend to have short attention spans and feel that art should be free.

CA is about making it in the industry, it's about taking a real drive and passion for your work and pushing yourself beyond pop culture conventions. That isn't to say pop culture art doesn't have its place or can't make money. It's just the market is so flooded with stupid pinup work why the hell WOULD someone pay more for your work when there's 50,000 other people doing the same kind of work for shit pay?

If you want to know what professionals generally get paid for try picking up the GAG's (Graphic Artist's Guild) to Ethical Pricing. It's an eye opener.

One of the reasons I started going on CA is that I realized, there are way too many artists doing the same shit, worrying about having a cool style on their character and bitching about how "Realism' sucks. I feel sorry for them when they realize after going on Con Carnie Tour, they really need to learn to get a job that pays for their work, or they can just do small assignments here and there waiting for the next paycheck. Then you can see the journals how they miss their furry friends, or those stupid :iconusername: floods of how they didn't get to talk enough to people they met at a con.

Their work lacks innovation and they'll just become the cog in the wheel artist and will be the first ones they lay off, when an assignment is over.

Now I know this is a pretty long rant, and I can't give you a short answer to the question because think about it. Why pay more for art when there are too many doing the same shit? You'll have to open and broaden your horizons if you want to price yourself better. In other words look at your competitors and realize if they're charging that cheap at your level, those that don't really respect how much work it takes to do a piece will take advantage of the cheaper prices, no matter how much I tell artists they keep underpricing themselves - market saturation will be the biggest downfall.

[Shpow.Iain]

How do you price yourself? When is someone good enough to charge professional rates?

I honestly have no idea how to price myself fairly. I've been doing work for a niche fandom infamous for low art prices for a few years now, doing art commissions for between $40 and $60 (up to this (http://pics.livejournal.com/grrrowly/pic/001cs8fz) level of polish), and I KNOW this isn't what professionals charge. I hear my classmates casually talking about selling paintings they've done for hundreds of dollars. People with the same level of education as I.

As much as I love my fandom, uhh... I'd kind of like to have a professional career and be able to live off of it.

So tell me... what do you think I SHOULD be charging right now, at my current skill-level? Here is my DA gallery: http://thegreenmooseofdoom.deviantart.com/

You could try to get amazon to price it over the internet or something, rather than sell.

My friend does the same, he prices them, and they can be sold for about $90-$100. A few water-colours and pastels, and he's 13.

[Brendan N]

Do work that people are willing to pay more money for. And that means, more than anything, getting out of furryworld.

ditto. If I were you I'd get off dA and delete my account - the only real thing that gets boosted around there is ego. Start getting acquainted with real world art and illustration and develop a style according to that. Before you start worrying about professional pricing, first worry about getting onto a professional level.

[Dave Kendall]

You'll get paid professional rates when professional organisation/companys employ you. When that happens, and keeps happening, and you can pay your bills on the strength of commissions, you're then professional. It's a hard road and you need to be seriously stubborn, confident and humble all at the same time. Get the opinions of numerous professionals, editors and art directors, rather than friends and family on your work. If the majority of these people encourage you to continue then you know you are onto something.

[Xazy]

I fear that if I ask for anything more than $100 for my stuff I'll be laughed out of a gallery.

Make it at least 11x14 on quality art material (board or good paper at minimum) and mat it real pretty, see how the value changes. Presentation is really important. If you don't feel that your art is worth x amount, it might just be that you don't feel that you're putting x into it.

and then there's always setting your prices high and being willing to negotiate down... you never know when someone might surprise you and take your high asking price. but they'll always rip you off if you let them.

[Arshes Nei]

Make it at least 11x14 on quality art material (board or good paper at minimum) and mat it real pretty, see how the value changes. Presentation is really important. If you don't feel that your art is worth x amount, it might just be that you don't feel that you're putting x into it.

and then there's always setting your prices high and being willing to negotiate down... you never know when someone might surprise you and take your high asking price. but they'll always rip you off if you let them.

Yeah but unfortunately the community this person is advertising in has a tendency to be riddled with porn. I don't think putting something on a Matte is going to matter when they want to ejaculate :/

[Xazy]

Arshes, I was talking about selling to a gallery ;)

We're not on FA anymore Toto! lol

[Arshes Nei]

Arshes, I was talking about selling to a gallery ;)

We're not on FA anymore Toto! lol

Oh no, I know that. It's just got such a stigma and especially when it comes to selling to a gallery.

However, one thing I do notice is that when people sell works to a gallery, they show themes in their works, not just 1 piece then usually a gallery will buy 1 or even more pieces. They do need to verify they're the artist in question too.

[Qitsune]

1) One doesn't sell to a gallery, one sells through a gallery.

2)It's easier said than done nice 11x14 paper will probably not get the work done.

3) This book might interest you if you want to do "fine art" How to Survive and Prosper as an Artist : Selling Yourself Without Selling Your Soul (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0805068007/701-6001193-0230749)

[Xazy]

Thanks for the tips, Qitsune.

I was saying at least 11x14 until you get some kind of rep that'll make your small stuff worth $$$, and good illustration board or canvas is probably the best way to go...

[Darasen]

...for hundreds of dollars. People with the same level of education as I. ...


Level of education is not the same as level of talent (not an insult) or marketability. Consider this: if the works you create are the type of thing that tends to appeal to females below the age of 20 (or there abouts) can you truly expect your audience to pay large sums for said works? Please note I do not intend to be derisive.

Truthfully I am not a big fan of "fuzzies". (Of course most works that call themselves that tend to be some sort of magna/porn.) That said I do like that many of your critters actually have character to them. (that is intended as a compliment.) IMHO you should consider looking into doing some illustration work for children's books or the like. which, of course, would open larger markets for your work.

[steve kim]

pricing art is always a big concern but you have bigger fish to fry and frankly, it's irrelevant if you don't understand how retarded furriness is.

what the heck is someone of your age and aptitude worrying about money anyway? for chrissakes!

[Lohan]

In my limited illustration experience, Elwell is spot on esp. in his second post.

[chaosrocks]

I sell to through Galleries all the time. My husbands work, but it is fine art etchings, not illustration. Galleries are a bitch, and cold calls (show up with portfolio ) SELDOM WORK... usually the gallery has seen my husbands work at a conference or workshop (hes the workshop instructor) and they approach us. so IF your work is good enough to sell in a gallery situation. And you are in places where gallery reps go to see your type of work. They will approach you. The trick is ..your work has to fit in to their gallery profile, and it has to be a darn sight better than anyone elses in the same genre.
and 50% gallery commision is standard. they expect the work to be archival and damn good.

GOOD LUCK
chaos

[Chris Bennett]

chaos is right. You simply have to sort out an approach that you do better than anyone else and is also something that people seem to want. This takes a lot of work and half a lifetime's commitment. You spend most of your time wandering around with paintings under your arm getting humiliated by polite and not so polite gallery owners. It's called paying your dues. The main thing is to keep focused on the 'here and now' rather than 'one day when I'm a great artist'. If you do this then gradually you will start noticing a pattern in what seems to be working and building on that. I can't stress the importance of this enough. Eventually the tide will turn and people will come to you...and boy, is that a relief!